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Iago40k wrote:
well its good that i build a enginseer out of scrap parts then. Finally am able to use him
Graia seems cool, at least there is a chance to get kastelans in shooty protocol out of combat by shooting them^^
But all in all I think Mars still takes the cake...atm.

Assault and Rapid Fire only, sadly. Not Heavy.

Not too impressed with Graia's tactics, it's a pseudo 6+++ that only occurs on death or fleeing. Good for infantry and okay on vehicles for the potential to completely ignore multi damage wounds that would kill it, but you still only have a 1/6 chance of making it in a specific situation. I'd rather have a real 6+++ but that might be too OP considering it would be army wide. Strategem for electro priests to fight twice sounds good until you realize it's 3 CP and only for electro priests. CSMs do that for the same price and it applies to any of their Khorne infantry/bikers.

Graia definitely seems to be favoring the infantry heavy Ad Mech army but I don't think it beats out Mars and Cawl. Hopefully the other forge worlds have stronger abilities to at least compete with them.

Mars helps all admech.... graia infantry... think we'll get on geared toward robots and walkers?

gendoikari87 wrote:
Mars helps all admech.... graia infantry... think we'll get on geared toward robots and walkers?

Fingers crossed its Metalica.

A couple things on Graia:

Tactic: If a model with 3 wounds left takes 5 wounds, how many wounds actually kills it? Interesting it works against morale losses. Is that a first?

Warlord Trait: Situationally makes Corpsucarii absolutely bonkers. Wish it worked in heavy tho so Onagers/Kastelens could shoot. That would make them a contender vs Cawl.

Strat: Still feel like we're bleeding CP even with the change to Enginseers. Dont know if I'd ever end up spending 3 to use the strat.

They used the word "relentless" with Metalilica. I hope its not move/shoot heavy weapons at no penalty. Half the codex does that already.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
ENGINSEER CONFIRMED HQ!!!!
Also, they don't know about using the Mars' stratagem on both Kastelan's shooting things. Also the sole 6+ save might save additional wounds. For example if you get hit by 3 damage, you might go to 1 with that one 6+ roll to stay aline. And not 3 6+ rolls. But both of these have been sent to FAQ

Is your second part of this referring to the Graia trait? I assume it is, but there's no point sending for an FAQ as the rule is very clear. You only get the 6+++ on slain or fleeing models. So on a multiwound model, you would only get the 6+ after they lose their final wound, you definitely would not get 3 6+ rolls.

So it's a great trait for single-wound models, so units of priests or vanguard get a LOT of mileage out of it. Dragoons and Kastellan get a lot less out of it, but still nice to have that 1/6 chance of staying alive an extra turn.

It means if the Dragoon got a 12 damage shot somehow, he can live with a single 6+. Like, it doesn't matter what the damage is, it ignores all and stays on 1
That's what they will ask around and post on the FAQ

Ahh I see what you mean. I know with FNP if they take 10 damage they have to save each and every one seperately, but this rule does say it only happens when a model is "slain", and I'm not sure they can then continue taking damage after the "slain" phase... good point.

I guess my issue is that it's gone on for pages and pages. Yes, there was good information exchanged but I think the horse has been kicked to death with no new info come to light in the recent exchanges. Lets wait for the dex to come out and see how that changes things... then I'll gladly watch the debate re-engaged.

Well so far my list would be
Cawl + Heavy Support (Spearhead) - Mars
Enginseers + infantry - Graia (can be Batallion or Vanguard depending if Skitarii are good or not)
Again, all hypothetical, we don't know anything about how good units might be.

I'm not sure why people are closed to the multiple Forgeworld idea

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well so far my list would be
Cawl + Heavy Support (Spearhead) - Mars
Enginseers + infantry - Graia (can be Batallion or Vanguard depending if Skitarii are good or not)
Again, all hypothetical, we don't know anything about how good units might be.

I'm not sure why people are closed to the multiple Forgeworld idea

It may have applications. I think it is just too soon to tell. Having Mars for Cawl & Kastellans seems a no-brainer though. That Spearhead writes itself.

The rest? All up in the air!

The main issues are not directly answered as i see it. Nice additions sure and im happy for a crappy 52 point tax doing nothing than opening my gaia dragoon detach. Could use a fast cheap hq . Or could use priests as hq for 70-80 points directly. Better than stupid tax. Why priests cant be hq directly an hq command squad and get on with it.

Same goes for vanguard. Buffing them when they cost 50 points /5 give a lower costs at least when going for 10 droping close to either ig or buff them to marines. What good are they still a tax.

Nice buffs might be also better with relics till priests gotta pay tax hq nd still gotta move 6. I dont see why your so happy.

Mars Cawl warlord rerolls 6+ mortals etc is far far from others.

I already changed my list to setups with another detachment and gaia was what i wanted for my priests and dragoons. Survive etc.
The techpriest hq wont cut it. Either make priests hq command option. Or vanguard alpha hq or dunno. Throwing nd engiseer tax again makes a vanguard extremely expensive yet again. As i guessed poor designing and fast cocex with no real changes. Hoe would we be competitive when we gotta pay 202 points for 15 vanguard and an engiseer bare bones?

Bla bla is nice relics stratagems but competitive beyond mars again seems stil expnsive no transport still lucking same isues. etc.
If thats all they gonna do forge world buffs with paying cost we got zero and it was expected.

We are ig brigade Mars spearhead again with a buff on robots ...

You're not really wrong Yoda.

The army I think will play much the same unless some of the rules on the actual units change, which I'm not thinking is going to happen.

Theres only so much that can be done with points adjustments.

Still, with the Enginseer moved to HQ you should be able to squeak out a few more CP for minimal investment, tho I'm not sure its worth the drop in firepower! It will depend on what happens with knights.

If knights are fully Forge World models, then my Spearhead+knight list probably wont change, but get slightly better.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does the aura abilities stretch across detachment? If not they still won't work on knights will they?

gendoikari87 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but does the aura abilities stretch across detachment? If not they still won't work on knights will they?

They work across all detachments as long as rules apply.


Okay, this Graia preview is strangely written.

1. Is there a reason they kept the <Forge World> tag in the Forgeworld specific Dogma?

2. Is there ever a case where this actually happens?
"Usually, Vanguard must choose between firing with their weapons or weakening enemies with rad-saturation, but with Emotionless Clarity allowing them to shoot into combat, you won’t have to!"

You can shoot rapidfire/assault and still charge to get bonus.
If they have been charged, they can't shoot.
If they are still in combat on your turn, they can fallback (cant shoot) or stay in (rad saturation, can't shoot)

We cant compete with out stratagems. Thats the whole issue. We need stratagems when one has 3 points and its not even in par with other armies what is our chance??

I dont want to gt all the love from gw? Nor asked new models en mass. But you see priest in need of a buff to work in smaller groups and vanguards need to be active again. Great give vanguard sergent hq and a cheap vnguard blop. Make priest gaia hq command unit for 70 points . Where is the problem i dont get it. Clearly its not big changes but you cant expect us or anyne to play seriousoy ad mech in a meta game of stratagems with Cawl tech priest and engiseer hq option. For real?

Where is the problem seperating alphas from units making them a bit cheaper when they go over 5 since they are more vunerable and then give options. Whats the problem with a vanguard alpha or a rustalker leading or even better some elites becomjng command units. Such a big deal. Wont affect so kuch the design team and might even start playing rest of the ad mech models.
Is it hard???

Tech priest healing knights. Ok thats about how far i see them think we want to play. Bet the knight back. Well the rest of us and i got a few knights where hoing to see the merge skitarii cult as reall army. 3 hq great one named to make detachments . I really hope thats not all they have done. Wont convince me with a firework a second time in a row sorry no. I ll not send a dime again in ad mech if they dont get serious. That about. Ok with 8th ok with trying to make it balanced no ore mocking in my face. There is bsolutely no chwnce someone has not seen we got 3 hq

None has asked them about chep soldiers. None for hq options? How is it blnced whe others got 40 hq and we got 3? I gotta play a gaia survival detwchment with dragoons and vanguard lead but an engiseer. Are you a joke there in gw? My enemy plays with 14++ cps and i got an engiseer thats prwcticwlly cwnt do nothing? Ot even the datasmith that worth something. We gotta pay another stupid 52 points to make a useless 50 point / unit oldiers what all other armies have? None hs seen this or asked this once more?? What have been talking 200 pages forum so far??? What? None send them a wake up make sergents viable. With a melee buff for gaia ?? Make some sort of hq even if it is a tech priest with melee option. What is this full codex. Paints? And fireworks??

I don't think I've ever said anything about bat grammar. But Yoda's posts are making my eyes bleed. So many typos too

So far remember the rumor is stygies gets raven guard rules and that's really good for shooty armies


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think I've ever said anything about bat grammar. But Yoda's posts are making my eyes bleed. So many typos too

they are hard to read but let's be nice I don't think English is their first language also... irony.

 gally912 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but does the aura abilities stretch across detachment? If not they still won't work on knights will they?

They work across all detachments as long as rules apply.


Okay, this Graia preview is strangely written.

1. Is there a reason they kept the <Forge World> tag in the Forgeworld specific Dogma?

I think this is because of something similar to successor chapters in space marines... as in you might have your own name for your Forge World, but you might choose to use the Graia dogma. It just means all the units must have the same <forgeworld> name, whatever it is. Though it's a little odd, as someone may try and choose <MARS> and use the Graia dogma,
but still have Cawls benefits.... actually I guess there's no reason why you can't, as you can only have one dogma, so it would be Graias instead of Mars' dogma.


2. Is there ever a case where this actually happens?
"Usually, Vanguard must choose between firing with their weapons or weakening enemies with rad-saturation, but with Emotionless Clarity allowing them to shoot into combat, you won’t have to!"

You can shoot rapidfire/assault and still charge to get bonus.
If they have been charged, they can't shoot.
If they are still in combat on your turn, they can fallback (cant shoot) or stay in (rad saturation, can't shoot)

I think they're just ham-fistedly trying to say that they have a choice between staying back and shooting, or running in to melee range and giving rad-saturation, as they can't do both at the same time. Sure they can shoot then charge, but the target wouldn't have -1 toughness during the shooting so it still would be one or the other not both. Except with this strategem, as it allows an enemy unit to have -1 toughness from radiation against shooting attacks, instead of only against melee attacks like it was before.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gendoikari87 wrote:
So far remember the rumor is stygies gets raven guard rules and that's really good for shooty armies


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I don't think I've ever said anything about bat grammar. But Yoda's posts are making my eyes bleed. So many typos too

they are hard to read but let's be nice I don't think English is their first language also... irony.

I was also going to say, pretty sure Yoda's first language isn't English and he's doing pretty well nonetheless, and also HOLY BAT-GRAMMAR BATMAN!

He is. It's sentence structure and syntax that makes it hard to read more than grammar or spelling. It's not wrong or grammatically incorrect it's just an unusual way of speaking.

Niiru wrote:

 gally912 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but does the aura abilities stretch across detachment? If not they still won't work on knights will they?

I think this is because of something similar to successor chapters in space marines... as in you might have your own name for your Forge World, but you might choose to use the Graia dogma. It just means all the units must have the same <forgeworld> name, whatever it is. Though it's a little odd, as someone may try and choose <MARS> and use the Graia dogma,
but still have Cawls benefits.... actually I guess there's no reason why you can't, as you can only have one dogma, so it would be Graias instead of Mars' dogma.


2. Is there ever a case where this actually happens?
"Usually, Vanguard must choose between firing with their weapons or weakening enemies with rad-saturation, but with Emotionless Clarity allowing them to shoot into combat, you won’t have to!"

You can shoot rapidfire/assault and still charge to get bonus.
If they have been charged, they can't shoot.
If they are still in combat on your turn, they can fallback (cant shoot) or stay in (rad saturation, can't shoot)

I think they're just ham-fistedly trying to say that they have a choice between staying back and shooting, or running in to melee range and giving rad-saturation, as they can't do both at the same time. Sure they can shoot then charge, but the target wouldn't have -1 toughness during the shooting so it still would be one or the other not both. Except with this strategem, as it allows an enemy unit to have -1 toughness from radiation against shooting attacks, instead of only against melee attacks like it was before.

I didnt think about alternate forgeworlds. Good point!

Unfortunately, I dont believe that you can run into melee range in the current version of the rules. Sure would be handy tho!

I think Graia will be a bit of a pass for me. Its unfortunate, but every other forgeworld is going to have to have something for the opportunity cost of trading Cawl for a TPD.

If that Warlord trait was heavy weapons, I think I'd be in business.

https://www.languagetool.org/

That thing is great tool, when your written grammar makes you hard to understand. Praise the Ommnisaiah and his glorious scripts.

Spera wrote:
https://www.languagetool.org/

That thing is great tool, when your written grammar makes you hard to understand. Praise the Ommnisaiah and his glorious scripts.

i know some folks who's first language IS English that could use that tool

 gally912 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 gally912 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but does the aura abilities stretch across detachment? If not they still won't work on knights will they?

I think this is because of something similar to successor chapters in space marines... as in you might have your own name for your Forge World, but you might choose to use the Graia dogma. It just means all the units must have the same <forgeworld> name, whatever it is. Though it's a little odd, as someone may try and choose <MARS> and use the Graia dogma,
but still have Cawls benefits.... actually I guess there's no reason why you can't, as you can only have one dogma, so it would be Graias instead of Mars' dogma.


2. Is there ever a case where this actually happens?
"Usually, Vanguard must choose between firing with their weapons or weakening enemies with rad-saturation, but with Emotionless Clarity allowing them to shoot into combat, you won’t have to!"

You can shoot rapidfire/assault and still charge to get bonus.
If they have been charged, they can't shoot.
If they are still in combat on your turn, they can fallback (cant shoot) or stay in (rad saturation, can't shoot)

I think they're just ham-fistedly trying to say that they have a choice between staying back and shooting, or running in to melee range and giving rad-saturation, as they can't do both at the same time. Sure they can shoot then charge, but the target wouldn't have -1 toughness during the shooting so it still would be one or the other not both. Except with this strategem, as it allows an enemy unit to have -1 toughness from radiation against shooting attacks, instead of only against melee attacks like it was before.

I didnt think about alternate forgeworlds. Good point!

Unfortunately, I dont believe that you can run into melee range in the current version of the rules. Sure would be handy tho!

I think Graia will be a bit of a pass for me. Its unfortunate, but every other forgeworld is going to have to have something for the opportunity cost of trading Cawl for a TPD.

If that Warlord trait was heavy weapons, I think I'd be in business.

Haha, by "run into melee range" I meant charging. I realise now that they're two seperate things in this game, but I was being narrative rather than match-play about my description lol

Hmm, Enginseer being moved to HQ is potentially interesting for IG too. A superheavy tank's support vehicles could be led by an enginseer who can repair them instead of a CC who does nothing for them, for example. And if they were going to take an enginseer anyway, hey saves them 30 points.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Guess who just ordered 3 Enginseers before they go out of stock (maybe perhaps).
I always wanted the model. And since there are 2 different ones - I just went for my good old 3x per unit strategy

And I will likely be getting this one. Because it looks just so much cooler. Plus I can use the servitor things for... scenery or something.

I just went and bought one of these. (I'm not going to immediately assume that the TPD is being written off; he may get improvements to make up for this change.)

If Servo-Arms get a points reduction (and they should, given Power Fists got one), we can use the Servo-Automata as Servitors; just buy some Heavy Bolter bits and stick them in the gimpy arm slot.

Enginseer, 2x2 Servitors, 1x Data-Smith, and 2x2 Kastelan is a Vanguard Detachment.

Sorry but.. 1) not my native language
2) usually i dont have so much time and i skip the edit reading my post.
3) when i use my tablet this crap types whatever?

I wont hold it against you if you ignore me just trying to contribute.

Suzuteo says most of the things i would either way!!

P.s someone make them place the datasmith as hq. Give the priests option to be a command squad hq. And maybe some cheap hq sergents reducing the infantry cost while there and fast. I ll settle with even datasmith and a cheap melee option like priest cmmand squad.

If taken for battalion hq, 2x techpriest are 166 pts cheaper than 2x TDP . For me thats more than one castellan, 10 man electropriests squad ect. For me it's a lot, giving how much i struggle with body counts in my lists.

One may hope that with fires of Cyraxus we will get TPReductor with all HH goodies.

Again, another set of rules tat make me desperate for Corpus Electro Priests...

With fast moving Assault as our big threat - we have a unit that can 'shoot' 4 times in assault on a 3+ with exploding 6s, then 'fight' 4 times in assault on a 4+ with exploding 6s.. with a strategm that allows them to do this twice! That's just insanely good!

Absolutely hideous models though. Really hoping that Rangers/Vanguard get some buffs in this codex, they're the main reason I would want to start an AdMech army.

Yeah hope for a year more to make a list to participate in any serious event. Right. Cause they cant reduce the cost of soldiers remove the alpha and open up the option to take as hq. Cant give a cc hq. Cant give simple variations when the game clearly takes a turn towards command points. Gaia stratagem 3 point cost. Are they for real in gw? Same stratagem as others with less options worse overall and again gotta take the tech priest really???

Yeah lets w8 again for another expansion a faq and errata to clearly play ad mech. Great lets all w8. And dont forget buy the codex for the stratagems you will use playing astra militarum.thanks god we got the codex...

I say its about time we go in mass and complain for this crap. One more time selling fireworks gw wont work. In mass people. Wake up. Wont win with techpriest eng nothing. Nor stratagems you wont have cps to use. Seriously go confront them now in social media its a joke.

Still hoping for more but as i see it it will be forge world and non usable 3 point stratagem in a spearhead army. We all saw the need of a transport some cheap hq some cost fixing and they release stratagems we dont have cps to play sub par even with other armies that got at least proper scaling and units???

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Absolutely hideous models though. Really hoping that Rangers/Vanguard get some buffs in this codex, they're the main reason I would want to start an AdMech army.

I just use my skitarii to convert into infiltrators. and i don't think anyone would say infiltrators are bad.