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Zealous Congregation isn't the Graia stratagem, it's one of the general AdMech ones. And it costs the same as the identical stratagem that Khorne CSM get, so... yeah.

You shouldn't assume that AdMech will continue to be shoehorned into a Spearhead army. There will be buffs somewhere, and the troop choices very well can be made strong enough to make a Battalion a reasonable choice. It's also possible that AdMech gets nothing that pushes it out of bottom tier, but you can't just assume the worst about everything.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Absolutely hideous models though. Really hoping that Rangers/Vanguard get some buffs in this codex, they're the main reason I would want to start an AdMech army.

I just use my skitarii to convert into infiltrators. and i don't think anyone would say infiltrators are bad.

I do love the Infiltrator models but I'd rather use them as Infiltrators, lol.

I judge what i see and how i see it heading. I have proven my army decisions when i spend a lot of money on plastic. And when i get fed with great words of new edition new options etc and i see talks about community heard i wanna see it. I dont want a codex once more and them play with faq errata in hand again and again. Cant be so hard to read 200 players saying the same thing.

1) datasmith as hq. Priest as command squads!!
2) a unit can advance and charge once instead of shooting.
3) canticle fall back and charge this turn.
4) alphas as hq
5) when taken vang or rangers unit of 10 reduce cost.
6) add buff auras on melee for tech priest as they are.
7) any option for changing setup weapons canticles buffs whaever for units already in use.

Where is the problem and gotta w8 a year??

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Absolutely hideous models though. Really hoping that Rangers/Vanguard get some buffs in this codex, they're the main reason I would want to start an AdMech army.

I just use my skitarii to convert into infiltrators. and i don't think anyone would say infiltrators are bad.

I think he meant Electro priest with that.
Matter of taste. I like blue guys. Gonna make conversion where they will be levitating/surfing lighting. And maybe change some heads. Full super Sayan mode

Spera wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Absolutely hideous models though. Really hoping that Rangers/Vanguard get some buffs in this codex, they're the main reason I would want to start an AdMech army.

I just use my skitarii to convert into infiltrators. and i don't think anyone would say infiltrators are bad.

I think he meant Electro priest with that.
Matter of taste. I like blue guys. Gonna make conversion where they will be levitating/surfing lighting. And maybe change some heads. Full super Sayan mode

I think a lot of what we're seeing is pointing to the next big list-building dillemma:

1) Large detachments with inferior bubble wrap.
2) Multiple small detachments.

On the plus side, Graia Skitarii are at least not-useless in melee. In fact, there are definite advantages now that they have exploding 6s, FNP on a 6, and that -1T aura that applies to both shooting AND fighting. Though sorting out what is the "closest" unit on a model-by-model basis might be annoying.

Something else that seems to be interesting: UNITS take dogmas. Not detachments. So you can--and should--pick and choose from a variety of dogmas on a unit-by-unit case. (HQs are going to look like the grimdark Power Rangers before we're through.)

Suzuteo wrote:
I think a lot of what we're seeing is pointing to the next big list-building dillemma:

1) Large detachments with inferior bubble wrap.
2) Multiple small detachments.

On the plus side, Graia Skitarii are at least not-useless in melee. In fact, there are definite advantages now that they have exploding 6s, FNP on a 6, and that -1T aura that applies to both shooting AND fighting. Though sorting out what is the "closest" unit on a model-by-model basis might be annoying.

Something else that seems to be interesting: UNITS take dogmas. Not detachments. So you can--and should--pick and choose from a variety of dogmas on a unit-by-unit case. (HQs are going to look like the grimdark Power Rangers before we're through.)

Hmm... I'm not convinced that's true, unless there has been some pages in the codex leaked that I haven't seen yet. In the Chaos codex, legions are chosen unit by unit, BUT the traits for that legion are only activated "so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same Legion". I would expect the Dogma page to have the same rule, that all units in a detachment must have the same dogma.

Suzuteo wrote:
I think a lot of what we're seeing is pointing to the next big list-building dillemma:

1) Large detachments with inferior bubble wrap.
2) Multiple small detachments.

On the plus side, Graia Skitarii are at least not-useless in melee. In fact, there are definite advantages now that they have exploding 6s, FNP on a 6, and that -1T aura that applies to both shooting AND fighting. Though sorting out what is the "closest" unit on a model-by-model basis might be annoying.

Something else that seems to be interesting: UNITS take dogmas. Not detachments. So you can--and should--pick and choose from a variety of dogmas on a unit-by-unit case. (HQs are going to look like the grimdark Power Rangers before we're through.)

I'm not sold on Graia skitarii being non-useless. In typical MSU style you might get one more wound out of them on average, and they only benefit from -1T from their own shooting if they survived a turn in melee.

Not exactly great odds.

Now a -1 to hit, however....

 gally912 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
I think a lot of what we're seeing is pointing to the next big list-building dillemma:

1) Large detachments with inferior bubble wrap.
2) Multiple small detachments.

On the plus side, Graia Skitarii are at least not-useless in melee. In fact, there are definite advantages now that they have exploding 6s, FNP on a 6, and that -1T aura that applies to both shooting AND fighting. Though sorting out what is the "closest" unit on a model-by-model basis might be annoying.

Something else that seems to be interesting: UNITS take dogmas. Not detachments. So you can--and should--pick and choose from a variety of dogmas on a unit-by-unit case. (HQs are going to look like the grimdark Power Rangers before we're through.)

I'm not sold on Graia skitarii being non-useless. In typical MSU style you might get one more wound out of them on average, and they only benefit from -1T from their own shooting if they survived a turn in melee.

Not exactly great odds.

Now a -1 to hit, however....

not likely they changed the rad cleansing to a -1 to hit.... -1 to STR ... maybe and that's the same odds there in most cases

Niiru wrote:

Hmm... I'm not convinced that's true, unless there has been some pages in the codex leaked that I haven't seen yet. In the Chaos codex, legions are chosen unit by unit, BUT the traits for that legion are only activated "so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same Legion". I would expect the Dogma page to have the same rule, that all units in a detachment must have the same dogma.

True, but it seems weird to have that separate penalty for the HQ. Unless they are concerned about people taking lone AdMech units? >_>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gally912 wrote:

I'm not sold on Graia skitarii being non-useless. In typical MSU style you might get one more wound out of them on average, and they only benefit from -1T from their own shooting if they survived a turn in melee.

Not exactly great odds.

Now a -1 to hit, however....

gendoikari87 wrote:

not likely they changed the rad cleansing to a -1 to hit.... -1 to STR ... maybe and that's the same odds there in most cases

I would keep an open mind. I mean, I can see a role for Skitarii if they were built for it and had enough value-added. That being said, it obviously depends on what they would be charging. We would probably be using maximum Vanguard squads, and the Alpha would have an EDT, Taser Goad, and possibly one of those relics we haven't seen yet. Who remembers Pater Radium?

Also, remind me again, the -1 to hit would stack with Incense Cloud and Smoke Launchers, correct?

Suzuteo wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Hmm... I'm not convinced that's true, unless there has been some pages in the codex leaked that I haven't seen yet. In the Chaos codex, legions are chosen unit by unit, BUT the traits for that legion are only activated "so long as every unit in that Detachment is from the same Legion". I would expect the Dogma page to have the same rule, that all units in a detachment must have the same dogma.

True, but it seems weird to have that separate penalty for the HQ. Unless they are concerned about people taking lone AdMech units? >_>

It is odd they added that in, but it says "on the battlefield", so if you only take one HQ and they get killed early on then your guys wont be able to fall back anymore. I think it's just a fluff rule, that makes you need to keep an eye on your characters.

Suzuteo wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gally912 wrote:

I'm not sold on Graia skitarii being non-useless. In typical MSU style you might get one more wound out of them on average, and they only benefit from -1T from their own shooting if they survived a turn in melee.

Not exactly great odds.

Now a -1 to hit, however....

gendoikari87 wrote:

not likely they changed the rad cleansing to a -1 to hit.... -1 to STR ... maybe and that's the same odds there in most cases

I would keep an open mind. I mean, I can see a role for Skitarii if they were built for it and had enough value-added. That being said, it obviously depends on what they would be charging. We would probably be using maximum Vanguard squads, and the Alpha would have an EDT, Taser Goad, and possibly one of those relics we haven't seen yet. Who remembers Pater Radium?

Also, remind me again, the -1 to hit would stack with Incense Cloud and Smoke Launchers, correct?

Dragoons dont get smoke launchers.. I'm not sure what unit you're talking about that can stack both incense and smoke

I mean, would a -1 to hit dogma stack with something like Incense Cloud on Dragoons or Smoke Launchers on Crawlers.

Suzuteo wrote:


Who remembers Pater Radium?

Also, remind me again, the -1 to hit would stack with Incense Cloud and Smoke Launchers, correct?

Only characters can take relics though, so putting em on alphas is out in 8th.

It would, Dragoons don't have smoke launchers though :(


I really like the graia stuff we saw. I'm not sure it's enough on its own, definitely need to see what's changed on units. Generally most new codexes have made units cheaper to field' very few have gone up in points. Hopefully that means dragoons, priests and vanguard/rangers go down. Though I'd quite like to have the option to field a 20 man squad of vanguard with 6 special weapons. Hell maybe given them more special weapons if you field 20. Graias rule does mean we can fire plasma and arc rifles in combat then....they still need to survive though. But at least vanguard and rangers are back to 7th ed durability under graia.

A quick look through the index tells me that the graia warlord trait allows cawl to fire his atomiser in combat and also allows kataphron destroyers to fire flamers or phosphor blasters in combat. Not as nice as being able to fire the heavy stuff, but if kataphrons get a points reduction it could make them more viable troops choices for cp acquisition.

I dunno, we ask for a cheaper ha choice and get one. People still complaining gw is trolling us. Aside from the re roll aura my TPD pretty much 1 to 1 shadow a dune crawler for repairs in the low points cost battles I've had. Paying a fraction of the points cost for them still to be able to repair my crawlers seems like a good deal to me. They just as good in melee as a TPD too.

I like that the rumours of the faction rules haven't been 100% dead right so far. Yeah we got a fnp, but imo it's actually a bit better and much more fluffy. I don't want carbon copies of other army rules, I play admech because they're different, interesting and cool. The fact that every weapon is unique and has its own rules might be daunting to some, but that makes them all the more fun to play.

What I want next is for them to make ruststalkers useful, I love the models, especially with the claws but they're next to useless in combat and they should be vicious killing machines mowing through power armour with surgical precision. Make it so GW!

The cheap HQ exceeded my expectations.

I expected cheaper Servitors and Kataphrons. Improvements to Arc weapons (mortal wound on 6?), Taser weapons (AP-1?), Radium Jezzail (Heavy 3?), and Phosphor Serpenta (Assault 2?).

I'm most anxious to see the rules about including the knights in our armies and in general what point changes we might see in codex vs current

I would not be surprised if we are completelly disgusted by the codex. Only to be saved by an faq in a few days after the actual release of the codex.
Reason: the codex has been written a looooong time ago. Now that they've seen the dud results in tournaments, they might do most of the pts changes in an FAQ

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I would not be surprised if we are completelly disgusted by the codex. Only to be saved by an faq in a few days after the actual release of the codex.
Reason: the codex has been written a looooong time ago. Now that they've seen the dud results in tournaments, they might do most of the pts changes in an FAQ

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I would not be surprised if we are completelly disgusted by the codex. Only to be saved by an faq in a few days after the actual release of the codex.
Reason: the codex has been written a looooong time ago. Now that they've seen the dud results in tournaments, they might do most of the pts changes in an FAQ

Actually, they reduced the point costs of many weapons and units in the SM and CSM codexes. I think we're going to see minor buffs all around.

Suzuteo wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I would not be surprised if we are completelly disgusted by the codex. Only to be saved by an faq in a few days after the actual release of the codex.
Reason: the codex has been written a looooong time ago. Now that they've seen the dud results in tournaments, they might do most of the pts changes in an FAQ

Actually, they reduced the point costs of many weapons and units in the SM and CSM codexes. I think we're going to see minor buffs all around.

Yes but hearing the rumors of Kataphrons (one of our worst units) not reduced in pts is concerning.

Obliterators weren't reduced in price and they went from one of the worst units in the Chaos codex to one of the best. I dunno what could be done with Kataphrons that wouldn't involve a price drop but I'd be pretty surprised if they don't do something.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Obliterators weren't reduced in price and they went from one of the worst units in the Chaos codex to one of the best. I dunno what could be done with Kataphrons that wouldn't involve a price drop but I'd be pretty surprised if they don't do something.

No doubt. Adding two more shots per model + stratagem to be able to shoot twice took them from zero to hero.

While I doubt any weapon stat changes come to Breachers/Destroyers, who knows what potential stratagems might let you do.

With a cost 200+ dont really care about stratagems. And so far an engiseer wont give neither cheap hq. Nor optins to make detachments. All our troops expensive. Good stratagems firework codex on solutions.

Bla bla stratagems bla bla no cps yet bla bla paints bla bla 2 hq + Cawl army wide. So its ig troops again..

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
well its good that i build a enginseer out of scrap parts then. Finally am able to use him
Graia seems cool, at least there is a chance to get kastelans in shooty protocol out of combat by shooting them^^
But all in all I think Mars still takes the cake...atm.

Assault and Rapid Fire only, sadly. Not Heavy.

I know. The idea behind it was, since our melee is extra weak, to at least get some vanguard into the fight to shoot down whats holding my bots in melee. Thats nigh impossible atm.

If kataphrons' cost isn't reduced in the codex, it will be in the Chapter Approved supplement.

We got counter units superb. And rustalkers and priests. Especially with new double hitting are extremely nice. Still they got no hq to lead them . Either slow otions or no options. All melee counter units no transport to survive or run. Gaia extra survival skill merely puts our units in par with other armies. Especially cost wise

 axisofentropy wrote:
If kataphrons' cost isn't reduced in the codex, it will be in the Chapter Approved supplement.

Oh okay, so my AdMech will continue gathering dust until December.

Guys relax. we get shroudsalm most the time with mars so most of our troops are 3+ to hit in shooting. and stygies is going to basically give incence cloud to everyone. relax. so graia wasn't all it was cracked up to be. we have several more forgeworlds with potential to look forward to.

If Stygies is -1 to be hit that sounds strongest to me so far. Cawl is best with Kastellans which are indeed super awesome... but a Stygies force with a bunch of Neutron Onagers could be good and would free up the cost difference between Cawl and a Dominus.

Too bad the onagers mostly just anti tank. That -1 to hit ground taegets really hurts the Icarus for anti infantry/meq. And the twin phosphor blaster is ...... meeeeeeeeh when for cheaper you get three on the kastelans and can double tap


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Be nice if gw were to add like a Gatling gun to the onagers weapon options

I realöy dont see a bubble wrap dilemma. You only need dragoons and vanguard for that. They were a solid choice just with the index and now with the codex they will be way better. There is no need to have a 100 man concript screen.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Too bad the onagers mostly just anti tank. That -1 to hit ground taegets really hurts the Icarus for anti infantry/meq. And the twin phosphor blaster is ...... meeeeeeeeh when for cheaper you get three on the kastelans and can double tap


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Be nice if gw were to add like a Gatling gun to the onagers weapon options

The Onager is not built for anti-infantry, we already have most of the codex to deal with that. You're not supposed to shoot at ground targets with the Icarus Array neither because it's... an Anti-Fly weapon. I agree the twin Phosphor Blaster is awful on the Onager, precisely because Kastelan Robots do it better, but the Onager is a powerful anti-tank platform so no one in their right mind would equip them with the Blaster.