Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Silentz wrote:

Yeah, but people immediately said Salamanders chapter tactics was the worst, and it turns out they were way off. Let's play a few games with massed skitarii and find out, eh?

Especially if they're down to 8ppm or something.

Being able to advance and shoot without penalty gives a pseudo-dunestrider ability.

I think this was very, very far from a majority opinion on the Salamanders' trait. Most people saw it as very strong from day 1. In general I think that "the internet" has done pretty well on predicting the meta in 8th, with the only real surprises being about overlooking things instead of evaluating them incorrectly (Malefic Lords, Razorwing Flocks). Lots of people were definitely very quick to figure out that Guilliman, Razorbacks, Stormravens, Celestine, Conscripts, and Brimstone Horrors were really good.

General Skitarii buffs just make Mars more appealing. You're much more likely to buff them to a 3+ save and Cawl's now-9" aura is a much better to-hit bonus than the Metallica dogma. Though really this is just the same problem Space Marines have. GW doesn't seem to have tried to account for relatively overpowered unique characters in designing traits and stratagems. At least Celestine doesn't actually have an <ORDER> keyword, so there's hope for the Sisters codex.

Mars is definitely still the strongest overall because Cawl is just that ridiculous, their doctrine with Cawl badically translates to "pick any two canticles you like" most of the time (as long as you don't roll doubles the spread will basically cover the entire chart), and anyone can use that +1 to hit strategem, including Mars.

Graia is second I'd say because of their mini-WBB roll that they can stack with invulns and sometimes FNP. A 6+ isn't much, but it starts to add up when every model is rolling two or three of them.

Styges might contest that position if the do get an army-wide -1 to enemy shooting though.

Metallica's isn't entirely useless (models with short-range assault weapons will probably appreciate it) it's just overshadowed by the others. Also the Metallica warlord trait is literally the Smurf chapter tactic.

That strategem is going to be generally useful for any army though, especially at just 1CP. Just make sure to drop it on the biggest pile of dice you can for maximum effect, preferably inside some kind of re-roll bubble.

Edit: I don't know why I called canticles "doctrines".

beep boop

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You guys forgetting the Immune to morale part of Graia. That's cool too.

Wait... what? Do you mean the 16% chance of not fleeing that each model gets?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You guys forgetting the Immune to morale part of Graia. That's cool too.

Immune to morale would be tight but seems like instead of "take 100% fewer casualties from morale" they get "take 16% fewer casualties from morale" which is in my humble opinion, Hot Garbage. Maybe even Cold Garbage.

Huh, where did you see that. I never said that
>_>
<_<

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Huh, where did you see that. I nerver said that
>_>
<_<

When pushed to the brink, sometimes man sees what he wishes to see

Man, this thread has never been saltier than it is during reveal week. What are you guys like at birthday parties...?

 ph34r wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Huh, where did you see that. I nerver said that
>_>
<_<

When pushed to the brink, sometimes man sees what he wishes to see

I think I need to reconfigure my cogitators and apply some sacred oils

Seeing as my 30th this weekend is at an all you can eat steak place probably sleepy most of the day

 kinetoscopic wrote:
Man, this thread has never been saltier than it is during reveal week. What are you guys like at birthday parties...?

Beep boop. Engage Conqueror Doctrina Imperatives.



...


...


...404

Corpuscarii priests + stratagem =exploding your face off

Sucks it is only for the shooting phase though. Or else big Dragoon units could've been viable

We really need a +1/+2 to wound thing-o-majig though

Can you get data-tethers on corpuscarii? Because getting tesla procs on 4+ sounds hilarious.

 kinetoscopic wrote:
Man, this thread has never been saltier than it is during reveal week. What are you guys like at birthday parties...?

Hey. See that P&M link in my sig? Go take a look at the 2000pt of Metalica I have painted and, upon seeing their awful rules, know will always be run as Mars as they currently are anyhow. I have earned this saltiness.

The salt didn't really start until Graia sorta, but mostly Metalica. Mars was obviously good, but we all knew it would be.

 ross-128 wrote:
Can you get data-tethers on corpuscarii? Because getting tesla procs on 4+ sounds hilarious.

Not yet. Might change

unfortunately the stratagem states it can only be applied on skitarii, which corspuscarii aren't

Regardless, Corpuscarii are not Skitarii, so can't benefit from the stratagem.

Crap, I began to lump Artilery as Cult and infantry as Skitarii. I quit for today. There's clearly something wrong with my head today

Does it buff any of the optional weapons for the vanguard/rangers?

Jaynen wrote:
Does it buff any of the optional weapons for the vanguard/rangers?

Plasma doesn't explode. That's about it

Metalica's warlord trait is really useful, just ask ultramarine players. I don't think we can write off these rules yet until we see the points cost on the infantry. Massed skitarii could be okay. Use them as screens around artillery. If your artillery does get engaged, fall back out of combat and shoot. Again, depending on infantry cost this could be okay.

Still not as good as Mars though.

linds14sr20det wrote:
Metalica's warlord trait is really useful, just ask ultramarine players. I don't think we can write off these rules yet until we see the points cost on the infantry. Massed skitarii could be okay. Use them as screens around artillery. If your artillery does get engaged, fall back out of combat and shoot. Again, depending on infantry cost this could be okay.

Still not as good as Mars though.

Ultramarines we are not. We don't have the units they do. Context is important. Massed Skitarii will likely not be good even if they go down to 8ppm (or less). The leadership issue is still a handicap for larger squads.

 ph34r wrote:

Yoda79 wrote:
I m really getting pissed withthis daily crap. Just to be able to move some troops we need dogma and warlord. Wsrlord traits stratagems daily. Where are the detachment options to use all this? Where are the hq for relic use? We gotta spend warlord trait and cp s to be half like others without relics and stratagems?

We cant compete even with relocs and stratagems if other srmies get theirs we ll be bottom immediately.
I believe its time to stop bothering with this crap

Whatcha talkin about, personally I can't wait for my Adeptus Mechanicus force to be 1400 points of imperial guard plus a couple Robots and Dunecrawlers. So glad I painted all those Rangers Vanguard Sicarians and Dragoons!!!

Seriously, why are Skitarii 10 points again? IG veterans are 6 points and NOBODY uses them. Skitarii seem barely worth 7.

FYI, according to random guy on reddit (so basically, I have no source. Chalk it up to "Internal Sources" if you want BOLS-ese) Skitarii Rangers have dropped down to 8ppm, and Vanguard have dropped to 9. He reportedly got a glimpse through the codex. The only other point he had in his favor was he got the Techpriest is HQ thing correct before the GW FB announcement. He also claimed no points change to Kataphrons or Kastelans.

I've been stoked for the reveals on the community page.

I also saw on my facebook feed a conversation with the Warhammer FB team that tech-priest engineseers are an HQ choice now for a cheaper HQ option. It was a picture of a picture, so take that with some , but that would be something that would help us going forward not having to spend bunches of points on dominii.

I have liked all the reveals so far and am looking forward to the others. The Mars ability to have 2 canticles at once is super strong. Add Cawl and it's nutso. That special weapon for Metallica is pretty nifty hitting at s12 -3ap and 3d, though the one attack kind of limits it.

Rumor mill! Rumor mill
Vanguard 9pts
Rangers 8pts

No datasheet changes apart from Enginseer HQ

Heavy arc went down 10 pts but that is literally it for Kataphrons

the_scotsman wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

Yoda79 wrote:
I m really getting pissed withthis daily crap. Just to be able to move some troops we need dogma and warlord. Wsrlord traits stratagems daily. Where are the detachment options to use all this? Where are the hq for relic use? We gotta spend warlord trait and cp s to be half like others without relics and stratagems?

We cant compete even with relocs and stratagems if other srmies get theirs we ll be bottom immediately.
I believe its time to stop bothering with this crap

Whatcha talkin about, personally I can't wait for my Adeptus Mechanicus force to be 1400 points of imperial guard plus a couple Robots and Dunecrawlers. So glad I painted all those Rangers Vanguard Sicarians and Dragoons!!!

Seriously, why are Skitarii 10 points again? IG veterans are 6 points and NOBODY uses them. Skitarii seem barely worth 7.

FYI, according to random guy on reddit (so basically, I have no source. Chalk it up to "Internal Sources" if you want BOLS-ese) Skitarii Rangers have dropped down to 8ppm, and Vanguard have dropped to 9. He reportedly got a glimpse through the codex. The only other point he had in his favor was he got the Techpriest is HQ thing correct before the GW FB announcement. He also claimed no points change to Kataphrons or Kastelans.

anything on knights ? Are they just a straight port over?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Rumor mill! Rumor mill
Vanguard 9pts
Rangers 8pts

No datasheet changes apart from Enginseer HQ

Heavy arc went down 10 pts but that is literally it for Kataphrons

I don't think that point reduction is going to be enough unless skitarii infantry get buffed alongside it.

Also Lucius has deepstrike stratagem apparently. Can you say: "deepstriking electro-priests!"?

Fire Warriors are also 8pts, so paying 8pts for basically a Fire Warrior plus a 6++ seems like a pretty okay deal.

 ross-128 wrote:
Fire Warriors are also 8pts, so paying 8pts for basically a Fire Warrior plus a 6++ seems like a pretty okay deal.

fire warriors are str5 in shooting and most of the time bs3