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Spera wrote:
I use this web app for my calculations. http://www.mathhammer8thed.com

Mortarion having 3+4++5+++ is sturdy. I din't include -1 to hit from power. And it is possible to have him in your deployment zone in 1st turn, so I'm bit scared of him. My Celestine can do the same but i is much easier to shake her of your units. As our primary power comes from shooting, having to fall back from CC with this guy is extremely hard.

I use the Calculator tool on Windows with a Notepad open! I am low-tech af.

For the -1 to-hit option against Mortarion:

6 Robots w/ Wrath of Mars & Cawl's re-rolls (round up mostly)
108 shots -> 60 hits after re-rolls -> 20 standard wounds and 10 mortal wounds -> 10 wounds after 4++ -> 13 wounds dealt after DR

So there we go. Revised and hopefully right. Showing my work a bit now too, because holy crap am I bad at math.

But still, that is a solid dent in him!

I just use the calculator I created in excel on my lunch break. It doubles as a point cost estimator if you want to make new units

Agripinaa



Huh. That is ....unique. 3CP to bring back a unit of 6 Destroyers wouldn't be awful, in theory. Mitigates their lack of durability, sort of.



Uh... huh. Not sure that is terribly useful overall. Not bad, just not great.

Also, power of deduction puts us at Stygies being the -1 to-hit, which I think was rumored right? So let's hope it is for everything and stacks with our Dragoons!

Only 3 destroyers/breachers for 10 power level isnt it? You'd have to spend 3 cp to bring a unit of 6 back from the brink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if Stygies is -1 to hit, we're still one faction short of leaked dogmas? whats ryza gonna be?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Agripinaa



Huh. That is ....unique. 2CP to bring back a unit of 6 Destroyers wouldn't be awful, in theory. Mitigates their lack of durability, sort of.



Uh... huh. Not sure that is terribly useful overall. Not bad, just not great.

Also, power of deduction puts us at Stygies being the -1 to-hit, which I think was rumored right? So let's hope it is for everything and stacks with our Dragoons!

I can live with a lame forge world rules if they have fun stratagems like this! this will be soooo capable of pissing off your opponents, especially if you are using breachers with Torsion cannons.

yeah, but what we use them for? everything that kathaprons could, others could do better. I'm not gone mention servitors. If this wasn't Agrippa only stratgem, maybe then...

Im not sold for this FW. Maybe with some changes in pts, but Id rather chose graia right now.

Hmmm so a unit of 6 destroyers is 20 PR. This might be a thing since what kataphrons lack the most is durability. Morale might be a kick in the teeth though.

Still that double overwatch bs is nice.

Also again no warlord trait so....

We'll probably get a significant info dump tomorrow as thats when preorders go up

God can you imagine titans overwatch on 5+?

gendoikari87 wrote:
Still that double overwatch bs is nice.

Also again no warlord trait so....

Not been an especially balanced roll out of information has it. there's definitely a lot more left to influence our decisions

So I know some of the units aren't the best choices but I don't actually own all of the models I am going to use, so I'm going to make due with what I have for tomorrow. Some thoughts on my list would be appreciated. My whole collection consists of:
2 TPD
Cawl
15 vanguard w/2 plasma and 2 arc rifles (I use all as plasma)
5 rangers with 2 arquebii
6 kataphrons I built as destroyers
2 onagers (1 icarus and 1 neutron)
Knight (fully magnetized)
all 4 assassins

Heres my thoughts on a list (I'll be using 2 contemptor dreads, I feel they are close on size, for the kastellans and a random space marine as the datasmith)

2k battalion admech (Cawl warlord)

TPD - eradication, phosphor
TPD - volkite, phosphor
Cawl
5 rangers - 2x arquebii, omnispex
5 vanguard - 2 plasma, EDT
5 vanguard - 2 plasma, EDT
Datasmith
2 kastellans - 3x phosphor blasters each
neutronager - extra heavy stubber, BSDT
onager - icarus array, BSDT
Knight Errant - gauntlet, autocannon (ran out of points for the stormspear pod :/ )
Eversor
Vindicaire

So I have some sniping with the rangers and vindicaire, CC threat from the eversor to kind of be a tiny distraction carnifex lol. The kastellans shoot all the stuff while the vanguard try to provide some semblance of 'bubble wrap'. I only have 5 more rangers and they don't have any specials, should I try to get 5 more bodies in there for more buffer? It's not super good at all, but it's super fun to play and I am stoked to keep playing with the army, looking forwards to the codex. If y'all can think of anything to change in the models I have, I'm all ears

Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Since you are getting assassins I would squeeze some points for culexus. Those pesky psykers will hate him, but you will love him so much.
Who are you using as hq in other detachment? Since you can't mix assassins without another one.

TBH servitors would be great if we could put heavy bolters on the whole squad instead of just half of them. The big thing that hurts them is half the squad is stuck paying for what are basically powerfists, when they don't have the stats to make good use of them. And powerfists ain't cheap.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

 ross-128 wrote:
TBH servitors would be great if we could put heavy bolters on the whole squad instead of just half of them. The big thing that hurts them is half the squad is stuck paying for what are basically powerfists, when they don't have the stats to make good use of them. And powerfists ain't cheap.

actually I'd prefer instead a bigger squad size something like max gen with 8 heavy weapons those power fists ain't cheap but the servitors are basically free


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 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

only within the detachment

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

I'd rather take Hector Rex, 20pts more but can deny 3 times and +1 for that, can deep strike and has 3+inv.

Spera wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

I'd rather take Hector Rex, 20pts more but can deny 3 times and +1 for that, can deep strike and has 3+inv.

Unfortunately I only have space marines to draw from other than the models I posted up that was my whole collection.

I've been doing well with a detachment of grey knights

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

Spera wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

I'd rather take Hector Rex, 20pts more but can deny 3 times and +1 for that, can deep strike and has 3+inv.

Unfortunately I only have space marines to draw from other than the models I posted up that was my whole collection.

Maybe you have terminator with powersword and storm shield? Since you said you are proxing other models, i don't see problem.

Wait. This stratagem is either an overcosted Outflank or amazingly good. It hinges on two questions:

1) Do damaged models in the unit get repaired?
2) Do destroyed models in the unit get replaced?

Because it states "as you would a unit arriving as reinforcements." How far does this logic extend?

Because if it does #2, we now know how much every CP is worth in points for us.

Suzuteo wrote:
Wait. This stratagem is either an overcosted Outflank or amazingly good. It hinges on two questions:

1) Do damaged models in the unit get repaired?
2) Do destroyed models in the unit get replaced?

Because it states "as you would a unit arriving as reinforcements." How far does this logic extend?

Because if it does #2, we now know how much every CP is worth in points for us.

Yup they get back new and shiny, to the full starting strength. Its only bad if the unit is destroyed, because you can't use it. One Kathapron must stay with at least 1W. This could add us something 400 points. The problem is ass right now, they are not worthy those 420 pts in first place.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

only within the detachment

The question is if 420 pponts worth of destroyers could work as a screen that would survive with at least one wound a massive first turn charge. If so I see some potential.

Spera wrote:

Yup they get back new and shiny, to the full starting strength. Its only bad if the unit is destroyed, because you can't use it. One Kathapron must stay with at least 1W. This could add us something 400 points. The problem is ass right now, they are not worthy those 420 pts in first place.

Then this is amazingly, amazingly good. Easily better than Mars, perhaps broken levels of OP.

Kataphrons are only bad because they cost a lot and are glass cannons. But if the opponent has to table them, that changes things. 6x Kataphrons have 18 wounds and shoot 6D6 of the most efficient ranged weapon in the game. You can totally replace it for 3 CP, and reposition it at will. FOUR times with a single Brigade, a Brigade that is going to be shelling the opponent while you're constantly threatening his backline. Plus you get 5+ Overwatch (no modifiers!).

Iago40k wrote:
The question is if 420 pponts worth of destroyers could work as a screen that would survive with at least one wound a massive first turn charge. If so I see some potential.

You get to choose where to deploy it at the end of YOUR Movement Phase, so as long as you know your opponent's units' threat bubbles, they probably won't be able to charge you in time.

Are you going to be able to afford a Brigade with that many Kataphrons in your list? It's a pretty expensive unit even if you only get one unit of them and fill the rest of your troop slots with Vanguard/Rangers you're paying a lot more than other Brigade-fielding armies do for your troops.

Spera wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

Spera wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alaric, you lose your Canticles if you are not all-Admech.

Good call, maybe run then in a vanguard, since I have 3 HQs? It would net me 1 CP as well.

Scrap one of those TDPs and opt for Greyfax to head up the detachment. Probably more useful.

I'd rather take Hector Rex, 20pts more but can deny 3 times and +1 for that, can deep strike and has 3+inv.

Unfortunately I only have space marines to draw from other than the models I posted up that was my whole collection.

Maybe you have terminator with powersword and storm shield? Since you said you are proxing other models, i don't see problem.

I do have a squad of cataphractii terminators for my raven guard, with a captain in cataphractii armor, but at that point I'm sinking some serious points into that vanguard. Maybe use just the captain, then the assassins and datasmith?

Suzuteo, no need for more than one squad. Can't do this strategem more than once per phase.