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2017/09/16 11:02:51
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Stygies deep striking is great for charging units, or as relates to Electropriests: You can gamble on getting in a horde of Fulgurites. If it pays off, even if they killed a screen they've now activated their 3++. The downside to the gamble is obvious enough.
You could also use it on fist Kastellans if you really wanted to go all-in.
Edit: I think this stratagem will really come into it's own with Cyraxus, when our melee options open up further.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 11:03:43
2017/09/16 11:06:46
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
How is Stygies great for charging. If you don't get turn 1 - you have to deepstrike them BEFORE your opponent's turn. If you get first all the time - amazing. But it is a HUGE gamble. Especially as we'll usually have to go MSU and Onagers are a whole drop for 140 pts
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 11:08:10
rvd1ofakind wrote: How is Stygies great for charging. If you don't get turn 1 - you have to deepstrike them BEFORE your opponent's turn. If you get first all the time - amazing. But it is a HUGE gamble. Especially as we'll usually have to go MSU and Onagers are a whole drop for 140 pts
I did say "The downside to the gamble is obvious enough".
It's, relative to Lucius, great for charging units because you can move first. The cost is it's, whilst still good for enhancing movement, more dubious for an alpha strike.
2017/09/16 11:11:23
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
rvd1ofakind wrote: How is Stygies great for charging. If you don't get turn 1 - you have to deepstrike them BEFORE your opponent's turn. If you get first all the time - amazing. But it is a HUGE gamble.
This. also interesting tid bit i'll have to double check but i think the whole "losing if you don't have any models on the table happens after turn 1 begins so you could put your whole army in deep strike mode...
anywho this is what i'll be running at 1500
Patrol Detatchment
HQ Grand master 162
Elite
4 Paladins
Troops
10x grey knights 3+ version
Spearhead
HQ Tech Priest 52
Heavy Support
4x kastelans
Neutronager
Neutronager
Auxillia
Vindicare
total: 1495ish
will probably end up selling most of my terminators and replacing that vindicare and paladin squad with two more squads of 10 grey knights or something like that. might have to drop the grand master down to a brotherhood champion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 11:14:39
Actually something I'm kinda curious about: Is there any decent way to make your enginseer fill more of an actual role beyond "stand next to a Dunecrawler" through relics or warlord traits?
2017/09/16 11:35:55
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
changemod wrote: Actually something I'm kinda curious about: Is there any decent way to make your enginseer fill more of an actual role beyond "stand next to a Dunecrawler" through relics or warlord traits?
i mean one of the generic warlord traits is literally "re roll the canticles" beyond that, you can give him a better axe. personally though i'm just using grey knights as secutors making the Grand master my warlord and using a half and half split of Mechanicus for heavy support and grey knights for front line combat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 11:36:45
So the only good artifacts seem to be:
Autocaduceus - aka the healing one
The Solar Flare - the Lucius Teleport one
The Eye of Xi-Lexum - vs Chaos Vehicles (so not really all that good :p)
And the only good Warlord Traits:
1 - get more CP 4 - repair +1
6 - re-roll to hit in combat (situational)
Mars - better deployment? Not too big on this one
Metallica - if you're already losing
rvd1ofakind wrote: So the only good artifacts seem to be:
Autocaduceus - aka the healing one
The Solar Flare - the Lucius Teleport one
The Eye of Xi-Lexum - vs Chaos Vehicles (so not really all that good :p)
And the only good Warlord Traits:
1 - get more CP 4 - repair +1
6 - re-roll to hit in combat (situational)
Mars - better deployment? Not too big on this one
Metallica - if you're already losing
So yeah, Enginseer is just a repair bot
To be fair, the Canticles re-roll trait is basically the Mars dogma, if all you care about is getting Shroudpsalm. This would actually be a reasonable pick for Mars with Cawl if you're not hurting for CP (in which case you should always take the one that gets you more CP). You go from a 75% chance of getting Shroudpsalm to an 87.5% chance. You expect to keep it up all game with perhaps one use of the canticle-change stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 12:04:21
2017/09/16 12:20:43
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
rvd1ofakind wrote: You can't give that to Cawl though. He always has the +3'' to auras
I don't have the codex, but even if true then you can just make an Enginseer your warlord. This is a pretty standard approach for lots of armies with special characters who get stuck with undesirable warlord traits.
2017/09/16 12:42:10
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
rvd1ofakind wrote: You really don't want more than Cawl as HQ in your Mars detachment. It is pretty pointless. Whatever the other HQ does, Cawl does better
So throw the Mars Enginseer into a detachment where you don't care about dogmas. Maybe you're also running a Lucius detachment for deep-striking electro-priests. You don't care about their HQ and you don't care about their trait since electro-priests don't get an armor save.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 12:47:20
2017/09/16 13:14:04
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
No datasmith. Robots change mode by stratagem at the end of the first and second movement phase.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
2017/09/16 13:23:49
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Iago40k wrote: So mars gunline, stygis screen and lucius drop. Got it ^^
Yup. Though honestly, the first two are vital, the Lucius option is not, imo.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rvd1ofakind wrote: How is Stygies great for charging. If you don't get turn 1 - you have to deepstrike them BEFORE your opponent's turn. If you get first all the time - amazing. But it is a HUGE gamble. Especially as we'll usually have to go MSU and Onagers are a whole drop for 140 pts
I don't have any books in front of me like I usually do, but what is the timing on that strategem? Do you know who is going first before you use it? If so, you can just use the Fulgurites as a screen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 13:54:12
You have to deepstrike at the start of the first battle round. But you select units for deepstrike during deployment (when you don't know who will go first)
rvd1ofakind wrote: Why Mars batallion? Seems pointless Better go Graia or Stygies IMO
Hmm, that's a pretty solid point, the main negative I guess would be the Enginseers would basically be standing around doing nothing instead of repairing. Not sure if that is worth trading Cawl retolls on offense for the (strong) -1 to be hit at range.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 14:10:39
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
2017/09/16 14:29:38
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
rvd1ofakind wrote: You have to deepstrike at the start of the first battle round. But you select units for deepstrike during deployment (when you don't know who will go first)
Why don't you think Lucius is vital?
Because we can't commit enough to it and we don't have enough potent units to maximize the strategy. At best we can throw out a suicide unit to disrupt the opponent, but our strength is our gunline. We can't support Deep Striking like some armies can. We have what? Corpuscarii that seem viable due to thier volume of fire and what else? Not much strikes me as potent enough to Deep Strike.
As for the reserving before knowing, we can just deploy them safely if we go second. Being able to reliably charge with a fat unit of Fulgurites is pretty great and seems worth the gamble. And because it is Stygies, if we do have to put them near our gunline, they will be harder to shift at range due to the -1 to-hit.
rvd1ofakind wrote: You have to deepstrike at the start of the first battle round. But you select units for deepstrike during deployment (when you don't know who will go first)
Why don't you think Lucius is vital?
Because we can't commit enough to it and we don't have enough potent units to maximize the strategy. At best we can throw out a suicide unit to disrupt the opponent, but our strength is our gunline. We can't support Deep Striking like some armies can. We have what? Corpuscarii that seem viable due to thier volume of fire and what else? Not much strikes me as potent enough to Deep Strike.
As for the reserving before knowing, we can just deploy them safely if we go second. Being able to reliably charge with a fat unit of Fulgurites is pretty great and seems worth the gamble. And because it is Stygies, if we do have to put them near our gunline, they will be harder to shift at range due to the -1 to-hit.
I mean, we can just use more priests 45 deepstriking priests seems enough to warrant Lucius
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 14:56:49
PS: now I kinda regret buying Enginseers as I can just use Datasmith models instead since they're useless(hyperbole!!!) now
I would go Outrider with Stygies and do four Dragoons and an Enginseer and probably shift the shooty priests to two 20-man units to save CP. Use spare points to get another robot. I think 6 will be the sweet spot so we can erase large threats quickly.
Rangers just aren't worth the investment just to get 2CP extra, imo.
Rangers at 8 points are pretty decent for cheap bodies. 40 points msu, same as cultists for CSM but a bit tougher. Not on guard infantry level but what is.
2017/09/16 15:23:08
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
rvd1ofakind wrote: Rangers are now 8 pts. I think they're worth for screening, obsec and CP Also if I do 2 20-man units, I need 1 more elite for vanguard.
so rangers as default now over vanguard? just with basic weapons or are paying for arc rifles etc going to be worth it now? I've got 5 rangers and 15 vanguard currently as built.
I'd see stygies more as board control think of it as massively increasing your deployzone vs your opponents.
The lucian deepstrike is more waiting for an opportunity to alpha strike something, stygies is more I'm going to gum up the board and camp objectives so that my gunline can keep moving up the field
2017/09/16 15:39:13
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Well they do similar damage per point in Rapid Fire range. (which is just 3'' less than Vanguard) and are more survivable per point and get more CP per point. Aka, I don't know We'll see
Also we should get more pts reductions in the FAQ if the rumors are true.
Can someone who owns a Knight please let me know the measurements for the head?
I'm working on a conversion at the moment, and I was considering buying one of the forgeworld knight heads (or a regular one from a bitz store) but I wanted to know the size first as I'm worried it might be too big.
Height and width of the head is all I need, preferably in mm, thankyou
2017/09/16 15:52:55
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
4CP Used, 1CP leftover (mostly for re-rolling a charge die for the Fulgurites)
I am not sure I want to commit to the Fulgurites. At all. But I do love the idea of them getting off a first turn charge somewhat reliably... provided I go first. Otherwise, they are kinda stuck. The Dragoons are a no-brainer. -2 to-hit is silly good for a screening unit, meaning they aren't getting shot off the board and the enemy must shift them in combat, which is what we want generally. And holy crap, they suck less in combat now too! Stygies Enginseer just parks near Cawl and helps repair stuff. The Mars component is straight-forward. One round of Wrathbots, triple Onagers to help knock out units with Fly and to put the hurt on armor. They do what they do and can now spread out a bit more thanks to the enlarged Aura. I will hope for Shroudpsalm for Mars, because it suits them best, but the +1S in CC or the re-roll 1's in fight phase would help the Fulgurites.
Mars Battalion Build w/ Stygies
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion +3CP
HQ:
Cawl
[250]
Techpriest Enginseer
Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land
[52]
7 CP Total
1 for Infiltration - 6 remaining to do Wrath a lot, lol
Same premise as the other list, but differently built. Possibly better.
Still hashing over some stuff.
Did Fulgurites REALLY go up a 1ppm? REALLY GW?! And nothing else really changed in points.
Also, Reece/Reecius or whatever - the guy who was like "just wait" - was so full of it. This is better than the Index, but worse than most other Codices hands down. Bleh. At least we got Wrathbots to help mitigate crap like Primarchs, I guess.
Also we should get more pts reductions in the FAQ if the rumors are true.
YES PLEASE.
Seriously, I have two boxes of unopened Kataphrons. GW, please give me a reason to run those gorgeous models.
Vanguard need to be 8ppm too and even then they don't compare well to similar infantry, but I would take it. I'd much rather run those than Rangers (because I don't want to paint any more effing Rangers).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 16:00:50
