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Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

Knights are no different than they were. A Crusader is still a strong unit and now we can repair it or bump it's shield to 4++. Not sure why it would be out of favor any more than before.

   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






My three Lucius+Mars+Stygies VIII lists now against non vehicle/monster spam:

3 drops list:
Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
4 Kastelan Robots
2 Icarus Onagers
(950 pts)

Stygies VIII Batallion:
2 Tech-Priest Enginseers
5 Rangers
2x 5 Rangers with 1 arc (leftover)
2 Dragoons

Lucius Vanguard:
Tech-Priest Enginseer
3x 15 Cospuscarii Priests


Both priests
Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
4 Kastelan Robots
2 Icarus Onagers
(950 pts)

Stygies VIII Outrider:
Tech-Priest Enginseers
17 Fulgurite Electro-priests
3x Dragoon

Lucius Batallion:
2 Tech-Priest Enginseer
3x 5 Rangers
20 Cospuscarii Priests


1 drop
Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
4 Kastelan Robots
2 Icarus Onagers
(950 pts)

Stygies VIII Outrider:
Tech-Priest Enginseers
17 Fulgurite Electro-priests
3x Dragoon

Lucius Batallion:
Tech-Priest Enginseer
Dominus
5 rangers
3x 5 vanguard
20 Cospuscarii Priests
2x Balistarii (Autocannon)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Knights are no different than they were. A Crusader is still a strong unit and now we can repair it or bump it's shield to 4++. Not sure why it would be out of favor any more than before.


I think the 4++ is irrelevant as we are CP starved as is. Besides, what does a Crusader do, that AdMech can't with the new stratagems/FW?
It has been proven that Knights not in Super Heavy Detachment lists are out of the meta. The die too fast and don't do enough. Was there a single solo Knight in any top 50 list of NOVA?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 16:25:49


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Could a serviceable list be made using a knight of some description? Not a competitive list by any means but one that doesn't get rolled?

If you had to include a knight in a list rvd what would you do?
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






I feel so bad about Knights right now(not because they're bad. Because they seem too simple and not flexible). that I don't even want to bother. Maybe a Mars Batallion? I really have no clue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 16:44:38


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





'Erryferd

Do we know of anyone currently trying to port the CreateYourOwnMagos rules from the Taghmata book?
I know there's a few chaps doing a Legions Astartes port to 8th, but that's just the Marines as far as I'm concerned.

~0110~ ~1001~
6.4k Taghmata
4.8k Morskitarii
1.9k Robots
1.7k Cult Mech'
1.3k Skitarii
1.1k Mek Nonsense

Primaris Marines
Archmagos Gramm Dyrbax
Boltscurry's Bhiranauts 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
My three Lucius+Mars+Stygies VIII lists now against non vehicle/monster spam:

3 drops list:
Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
4 Kastelan Robots
2 Icarus Onagers
(950 pts)

Stygies VIII Batallion:
2 Tech-Priest Enginseers
5 Rangers
2x 5 Rangers with 1 arc (leftover)
2 Dragoons

Lucius Vanguard:
Tech-Priest Enginseer
3x 15 Cospuscarii Priests


Both priests
Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
4 Kastelan Robots
2 Icarus Onagers
(950 pts)

Stygies VIII Outrider:
Tech-Priest Enginseers
17 Fulgurite Electro-priests
3x Dragoon

Lucius Batallion:
2 Tech-Priest Enginseer
3x 5 Rangers
20 Cospuscarii Priests


1 drop
Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead:
Cawl
4 Kastelan Robots
2 Icarus Onagers
(950 pts)

Stygies VIII Outrider:
Tech-Priest Enginseers
17 Fulgurite Electro-priests
3x Dragoon

Lucius Batallion:
Tech-Priest Enginseer
Dominus
5 rangers
3x 5 vanguard
20 Cospuscarii Priests
2x Balistarii (Autocannon)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Knights are no different than they were. A Crusader is still a strong unit and now we can repair it or bump it's shield to 4++. Not sure why it would be out of favor any more than before.


I think the 4++ is irrelevant as we are CP starved as is. Besides, what does a Crusader do, that AdMech can't with the new stratagems/FW?
It has been proven that Knights not in Super Heavy Detachment lists are out of the meta. The die too fast and don't do enough. Was there a single solo Knight in any top 50 list of NOVA?


Nova isn't exactly the best barometer of competitive gaming. Crusaders are not bad and with the amount of armor we put on the table, we saturate the opponent in high toughness, high wound models. So it likely can work, perhaps not in the WAAC Imperial Soup meta, but for local events probably just fine.

As for the lists, the lack of Neutronagers is shocking. They don't look too far off from my brainstorm lists - I think the good stuff is congealing into strategies now that we had some time to digest the new stuff.

I am still waiting before I start cracking open new kits or buying stuff, because that FAQ drop might shake us up, too. Curious to see if they wisely cut Kataphrons and Ruststalkers down in points. I love the idea of bringing the former to give me variety beyond Robots (and they are gorgeous models) and the latter for the Stygies Infiltration strategem, because they have some solid killing potential and that extra 2W each. Probably won't ever be cheap enough to be better than Fulgurites in that role though, sadly.

   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Well i don't really see any popular Big Tough models that don't have a huge invul save. So high AP for me is next to meaningless. Everything above AP3 feels pointless

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Just reading your lists now. Do you have that many priest models?
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well i don't really see any popular Big Tough models that don't have a huge invul save. So high AP for me is next to meaningless. Everything above AP3 feels pointless


Huh. Whereas I would just use it to bust Razorbacks - a common thing to see across the table and one that needs to be mitigated asap. Being able to one-shot those is pretty nice.

   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






For me here are the ways it goes when shooting Neutron
a) I roll 1 shot
b) I miss
c) I fail to wound
d) Opponent saves with invul
e) roll low damage
It feels really bad. Right now I feel Quantity>>>Quality of shots. Because with Quality you pretty much have to pray to RNG. And you either do nothing most of the time or something big rarely. You have to jump through so many hoops that it feels not worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ideasweasel wrote:
Just reading your lists now. Do you have that many priest models?

I'll use bloodletters and plaguebears for now. If I see they're broken - I'll buy some

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 17:33:09


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
For me here are the ways it goes when shooting Neutron
a) I roll 1 shot
b) I miss
c) I fail to wound
d) Opponent saves with invul
e) roll low damage
It feels really bad. Right now I feel Quantity>>>Quality of shots. Because with Quality you pretty much have to pray to RNG. And you either do nothing most of the time or something big rarely. You have to jump through so many hoops that it feels not worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ideasweasel wrote:
Just reading your lists now. Do you have that many priest models?

I'll use bloodletters and plaguebears for now. If I see they're broken - I'll buy some


Missing and failing to wound are hard with a Neutronager near Cawl. Yea, d3 shots means you can roll one shot. I do it a lot. But averages and game time have shown me it can swing upwards to. 3 shots doing ~9 damage with no save is a quick way to put a hurt on transports. They are really there for that, because why waste volume on Rhinos and Taurox?

   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Ah good old proxy. I saw you mentioned previously you play demons. That's an army I quite like the look of.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 rvd1ofakind wrote:
It is really annoying that we need at least 2 vehicles in every detachment or we'll feel bad about the useless Enginseer

Yes, you can see the dilemma my list is trying to solve. It's super annoying to have 104 dead points. T_T

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:

Well, your artillery should be clearing those objectives. But yes, I think it is safe to say that every army now will have at least a Battalion with 3 Rangers to access the 3 CP.

Eh. I'm not going that route currently. Wasting 202pt for 2CP isn't really worth it in my book.i would rather have more substance. Most of my lists have 5 or 6 CP, depending on build, which is enough to do the basics (Wrath, Deep Strikes, Binharic). And I still screen with 3-4 Stygies Dragoons so thie mediocre Skitarii aren't a big deal.

ObSec is great, but I can't see it being a big deal. I usually wind up on a few in deployment, so as long as I blast them off theirs and take a few strays I should be good. This has worked well so far, at least.

I really think that 2 CP is worth it though. And having some 8-point bodies isn't too bad.

 Kandela wrote:
Do you guys think it will be worth it for one unit of Dakkastelans to skip Datasmith altogether and just use Bhinaric Override to turn into deathball turn 1? I could see it working out great, just have to position them in good spot.

Don't think it always has to be turn 1. The key is to get them into position then rooting them with Crawlers supporting them; Dragoons and Skitarii, of course, should be screening. Not having to wait a turn is huge because it's immediate impact to make back their points, then denying this giant 36" bubble; most deployments see you 9" from the corner at first, so after moving 8", you pretty much can shoot everything in three-quarters your opponent's deployment zone.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I feel so bad about Knights right now(not because they're bad. Because they seem too simple and not flexible). that I don't even want to bother. Maybe a Mars Batallion? I really have no clue.

This. Thing is, we're in an era where a lot of our value-added comes from synergy, and Knights don't synergize. Losing 25% of our points to a Knight hurts when we can squeeze in more synergized shooting. A Knight list will probably be as I listed above. 3 Knights with two Battalions for cheap CP.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 18:57:22


 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Jaynen wrote:
Skiitari is just the vanguard/rangers/dragoons/ballistarii? maybe the sicarans?
Onager Dunecrawlers and Sicarians as well.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Knights are just cool, and fluffy wise they should be more a part of our armies.

I agree on the deepstrike front that making an Enginseer more valuable or giving additional rerolls seems like a good idea

You look at the HQ options Chaos SM has and we have a total of 3 lol if you count a character like Cawl who has to be Mars


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So do we have any in Army options to replace my Scion Command/Tempestus Plasma squad?

And we still cant take rhinos or use them :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 20:06:43


 
   
Made in pl
Sister Oh-So Repentia





I'm gonna have 3000pt mach in two days against Death Guard. I'm reading their codex right now (and believe me or not, half hour more of this and I'll be biggest salt producer in this planet) and wonder how to deal with few things.
So far I'm most afraid of Plagueburst crawler.
BS4+ T8 W12 3+/5++/5+++
12-48" HD6 s8 ap-2 d3 rerol 1 to wound and can fire at targets that are not visible
36" H4 s5 ap-1 d1
9"flamer s user(7) ap-1 D1
all that costs 149pts. 149PTS!!!

i assume my oponen will hide it so i won't be able to school it with onagers. Only 20fulgurites comes to my mind. Any ideas how to deal with those monsters?

1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.” 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Jaynen wrote:
So do we have any in Army options to replace my Scion Command/Tempestus Plasma squad?

At least for my Mars AdMech, my Militarum Tempestus Battalion is not going anywhere:

Tempestor Prime, command rod, chainsword - 40
Tempestor Prime, command rod, chainsword - 40
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma gun - 64
Eversor Assassin - 70
Tempestus Scions, plasma pistol, 2x plasma gun - 66
Tempestus Scions, plasma pistol, 2x plasma gun - 66
Tempestus Scions, plasma pistol, 2x plasma gun - 66
Earthshaker Platform - 80

492


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spera wrote:
I'm gonna have 3000pt mach in two days against Death Guard. I'm reading their codex right now (and believe me or not, half hour more of this and I'll be biggest salt producer in this planet) and wonder how to deal with few things.
So far I'm most afraid of Plagueburst crawler.
BS4+ T8 W12 3+/5++/5+++
12-48" HD6 s8 ap-2 d3 rerol 1 to wound and can fire at targets that are not visible
36" H4 s5 ap-1 d1
9"flamer s user(7) ap-1 D1
all that costs 149pts. 149PTS!!!

i assume my oponen will hide it so i won't be able to school it with onagers. Only 20fulgurites comes to my mind. Any ideas how to deal with those monsters?
What's your overall game plan, stand and shoot him down? If it hides, then it is a somewhat expensive Earthshaker Platform or Basilisk, ignore it and kill the rest of his army? If it is in the open shoot it with Onagers. If it tries to get close chop it with a Knight's Chainblade?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 20:25:06


ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah I currently have a militarum tempestus start collecting I build as
Tempestus Scions, plasma pistol, 2x plasma gun
and Tempesus Command 4x Plasma Gun
and the Prime with rod

And I am running the Taurox Prime as a dakka platform with the heavy 20 gatling, 2 hot shot lasers, and the stubber

I can see how adding an assassin or two and the earthshaker are good adds.

Earthshaker is like a non mobile basilisk?

The rest of my collection is 2 Admech start collecting boxes, 2 kastelans, cawl, and 5 fulgurites currently.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Suzuteo wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
I think if you bring dragoons, you really want to be bringing them in fat stacks. Singles means you don't get the most out of that amazing +2 to hit in combat strategem. A fat stack of dragoons maximizes their effectiveness in combat. Nothing gets more from that skitari strategem than dragoons. With the strategem, each dragoon averages 5.5 hits off of 3 swings.

That stratagem only works in the shooting phase. =\

 takonite wrote:
Is that youtube guy what counts as a warhammer 40k reviewer?

It looked like his first time opening the book was on camera, seemed to gloss over most things and just whined a lot,

How can I sign up to sound uninformed and get free stuff too?

He doesn't usually do reviews. It was probably a condition for getting the codex in advance. He does good battle reports though.


There is a second +1/+2 to hit strategem for skitarii in the fight phase, right beneath the other one. It works for dragoons in combat just like 7th edition melee doctrina.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





man between ryza's re roll wounds thing, the ap -1 on dragoons and the bonus to hit in melee, dragoons almost seem worth taking now. not to mention all the extra bonuses we got in close combat. too bad there's not a mortal wound strategem for CC.

011000100111010101110100001000000110100 100100000011101000110010101101100011011 000010000001111001011011110111010100100 000011101110110010100100000011101110110 010101110010011001010010000001100111011 011110110010001110011001000000110111101 101110011000110110010100100000011000010 110111001100100001000000111011101100101 001000000111001101101000011000010110110 001101100001000000110001001100101001000 000110011101101111011001000111001100100 000011000010110011101100001011010010110 1110  
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

gendoikari87 wrote:
man between ryza's re roll wounds thing, the ap -1 on dragoons and the bonus to hit in melee, dragoons almost seem worth taking now. not to mention all the extra bonuses we got in close combat. too bad there's not a mortal wound strategem for CC.
I am hoping that Stygies gets the same deployment Strategem that the Raven Guard have. Dropping a pair of Dragoons in the enemy's face would be mean as hell.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
man between ryza's re roll wounds thing, the ap -1 on dragoons and the bonus to hit in melee, dragoons almost seem worth taking now. not to mention all the extra bonuses we got in close combat. too bad there's not a mortal wound strategem for CC.
I am hoping that Stygies gets the same deployment Strategem that the Raven Guard have. Dropping a pair of Dragoons in the enemy's face would be mean as hell.


They aren't worth it. Not that scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote:
man between ryza's re roll wounds thing, the ap -1 on dragoons and the bonus to hit in melee, dragoons almost seem worth taking now. not to mention all the extra bonuses we got in close combat. too bad there's not a mortal wound strategem for CC.


They were always worth taking. Now they are just significantly better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 22:04:32


   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

Probably true, I hope it might allow me to get my Ruststalkers where they need to be though. Too bad there isn't something that allows Dragoons to advance and charge in the same turn.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


They were always worth taking. Now they are just significantly better.


They're still 70 points for three attacks in close combat only with no shooting ability. you can disagree all you want but for 70 points i expect a lot more. A LOT more. I don't care if they were T10 and a 1000 wounds. the damage output does not justify the price for me. YMMV.

011000100111010101110100001000000110100 100100000011101000110010101101100011011 000010000001111001011011110111010100100 000011101110110010100100000011101110110 010101110010011001010010000001100111011 011110110010001110011001000000110111101 101110011000110110010100100000011000010 110111001100100001000000111011101100101 001000000111001101101000011000010110110 001101100001000000110001001100101001000 000110011101101111011001000111001100100 000011000010110011101100001011010010110 1110  
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

gendoikari87 wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


They were always worth taking. Now they are just significantly better.


They're still 70 points for three attacks in close combat only with no shooting ability. you can disagree all you want but for 70 points i expect a lot more. A LOT more. I don't care if they were T10 and a 1000 wounds. the damage output does not justify the price for me. YMMV.


They aren't there to do damage. That is like expecting our Datasmith or Enginseers to do damage. That is not their role. You still seem to miss the point, despite having their use explained in detail.

And no that they are just better thanks to Stygies and the AP buff, they are more versatile and durable than ever. S6 AP -1 with three attacks with exploding 6's that is almost untouchable in shooting? Now that is a screening unit! Shifting them will take a lot of effort - pretty much exclusively close combat. That is fantastic.

Random musing:
Someone did mention using a Skitarii line in front to screen the Dragoons and I am thinking about testing that if only to make the Dragoons even more annoying. This prevents stuff from dropping within 9" and blasting out Dragoons and adds another layer to protect our vital artillery. I just worry about spending so much on screen units. Also hoping that the FAQ makes Blandguard 8ppm. 150pt to add more layers to our defense and bump in CP, after mulling it over, may well be worth it. Since we are taking Stygies anyhow.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Illinois

Anyone else see that Breeachers got an extra attack and a cost reduction!?

I have 9 of the bastards, and I can finally use them to punch stuff! Reroll 1s to hit and give them Heavy Ark Rifles, I fully intend to teleport these mooks near the enemy and teleport my TPD along with them for a hard hitting (though super expensive) mini tank colum. I'll probably support them with 10 or 15 Infiltrators as well.

8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third

 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Spera wrote:
I'm gonna have 3000pt mach in two days against Death Guard. I'm reading their codex right now (and believe me or not, half hour more of this and I'll be biggest salt producer in this planet) and wonder how to deal with few things.
So far I'm most afraid of Plagueburst crawler.
BS4+ T8 W12 3+/5++/5+++
12-48" HD6 s8 ap-2 d3 rerol 1 to wound and can fire at targets that are not visible
36" H4 s5 ap-1 d1
9"flamer s user(7) ap-1 D1
all that costs 149pts. 149PTS!!!

i assume my oponen will hide it so i won't be able to school it with onagers. Only 20fulgurites comes to my mind. Any ideas how to deal with those monsters?

What do you have to be salty about? You have a 48" Heavy D3 with S10 AP-4 D6Min3 that can move 8" and shoot without penalty. With Shroudpsalm you also get +1 save. Mars gives you rerolls in any situation, and Stygies gives you -1 to hit. You also heal D3+1 wounds per turn. Your friend is probably sitting in his room muttering "all that costs 143 points" under his breath.

But if you want my advice, if he's hiding behind cover, deep strike 1x3 Stygies Ballistarii or 1x2 Dragoons behind him.

Wulfey wrote:

There is a second +1/+2 to hit strategem for skitarii in the fight phase, right beneath the other one. It works for dragoons in combat just like 7th edition melee doctrina.

Yes! I saw that this morning. It can be good for finishing something off.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

And no that they are just better thanks to Stygies and the AP buff, they are more versatile and durable than ever. S6 AP -1 with three attacks with exploding 6's that is almost untouchable in shooting? Now that is a screening unit! Shifting them will take a lot of effort - pretty much exclusively close combat. That is fantastic.

Random musing:
Someone did mention using a Skitarii line in front to screen the Dragoons and I am thinking about testing that if only to make the Dragoons even more annoying. This prevents stuff from dropping within 9" and blasting out Dragoons and adds another layer to protect our vital artillery. I just worry about spending so much on screen units. Also hoping that the FAQ makes Blandguard 8ppm. 150pt to add more layers to our defense and bump in CP, after mulling it over, may well be worth it. Since we are taking Stygies anyhow.

Actually, Taser Lances are S8. Ballistarii are also much better now with just the -1 to hit. Alas, Jezzails still suck; if only it were an S6 weapon, AP-1 weapon.

I'm not convinced to put Skitarii in front. Yes, it does stop a shooting alpha strike, but the further out a unit is, the more area it needs to cover, especially if it wants to intercept a transport. After all, what is more important? Giving your Dragoon -2 to hit on turn 1 or being able to force a Rhinox to disembark 27" away from your Crawlers and Kastelans and fall back?

 Tsol wrote:
Anyone else see that Breeachers got an extra attack and a cost reduction!?

I have 9 of the bastards, and I can finally use them to punch stuff! Reroll 1s to hit and give them Heavy Ark Rifles, I fully intend to teleport these mooks near the enemy and teleport my TPD along with them for a hard hitting (though super expensive) mini tank colum. I'll probably support them with 10 or 15 Infiltrators as well.

Yes, but they're still bad. Heavy Arc Rifles should be S7 at the least. S6 is insufficient to punch through many transports. Plasma Destroyers are much stronger.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 23:34:13


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


They were always worth taking. Now they are just significantly better.


They're still 70 points for three attacks in close combat only with no shooting ability. you can disagree all you want but for 70 points i expect a lot more. A LOT more. I don't care if they were T10 and a 1000 wounds. the damage output does not justify the price for me. YMMV.


They aren't there to do damage. That is like expecting our Datasmith or Enginseers to do damage. That is not their role. You still seem to miss the point, despite having their use explained in detail.

And no that they are just better thanks to Stygies and the AP buff, they are more versatile and durable than ever. S6 AP -1 with three attacks with exploding 6's that is almost untouchable in shooting? Now that is a screening unit! Shifting them will take a lot of effort - pretty much exclusively close combat. That is fantastic.

Random musing:
Someone did mention using a Skitarii line in front to screen the Dragoons and I am thinking about testing that if only to make the Dragoons even more annoying. This prevents stuff from dropping within 9" and blasting out Dragoons and adds another layer to protect our vital artillery. I just worry about spending so much on screen units. Also hoping that the FAQ makes Blandguard 8ppm. 150pt to add more layers to our defense and bump in CP, after mulling it over, may well be worth it. Since we are taking Stygies anyhow.


No no. i fully understand the point. i think the point is stupid. but that's my opinion. you are entitled to yours. I'm going to ask more of 70 point models than 3 attacks per turn REGARDLESS of what their role is. if it isn't doing damage, it's dead weight. at best it's a road block. and we have bunkers that can fill that role.

That is like expecting our Datasmith or Enginseers to do damage.

yes yes i do. Datasmiths at least have a power fist. but the damage output on them does not warrant taking them any more, it barely did when we didn't have the strategem to switch protocols. Primarily i used them to get into CC if my robots were targetted and they usually made up their points then. now however I'll probably have the tech priest fill that role. and even then at least the datasmiths upped the damage output on kastelans. Dragoons do not do that, not as well as other CC units that can also deal damage.

but we've had this discussion. you are entitled to your opinion and i mine. I will not under any circumstances use a unit that does nothing but set up a barrier. that's wasted points.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/17 23:40:47


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Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






gendoikari87 wrote:

That is like expecting our Datasmith or Enginseers to do damage.

yes yes i do. Datasmiths at least have a power fist. but the damage output on them does not warrant taking them any more, it barely did when we didn't have the strategem to switch protocols. Primarily i used them to get into CC if my robots were targetted and they usually made up their points then. now however I'll probably have the tech priest fill that role.

Uhhh... you are aware that in terms of math, healing a wound on a high durability unit is just as important as dealing one to a unit of comparable durability? And AdMech has some of the most durable vehicles in the game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Suzuteo wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:

That is like expecting our Datasmith or Enginseers to do damage.

yes yes i do. Datasmiths at least have a power fist. but the damage output on them does not warrant taking them any more, it barely did when we didn't have the strategem to switch protocols. Primarily i used them to get into CC if my robots were targetted and they usually made up their points then. now however I'll probably have the tech priest fill that role.

Uhhh... you are aware that in terms of math, healing a wound on a high durability unit is just as important as dealing one to a unit of comparable durability? And AdMech has some of the most durable vehicles in the game.
Yes they can do both. they are capable of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also HEALING a wound is NOT as important as dealing one. if both armies just heal everything the game never ends. it ends via something dying. This is why in Magic the gathering life GAIN is not costed as high as dealing damage. the game ends when someone dies. there is no upper cap on life points. the same is true here. you win by removing the enemy from the table or objectives.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 23:47:45


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