em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

All of this combines to make a durable unit that requires an opponent be within 12" to hurt with shooting

except it doesn't have a gun and is no threat so might as well ignore it entirely. It grabs an objective? whoopty doo basil it's one model the enemy moves a troop squad with objective secured over there or ignores that one entirely and goes and grabs another. worst case scenario for them is they can't do any of the above and then point a couple lascannons over at it and boom, dragoon gone. but given it has no guns theres really no need to do that.

If they assault your Dragoons, just leave combat and shoot them with your army next turn.

or you know use something that's actually effective in combat and let the big guns focus on other thing.

The Skitarii are less flexible, less deadly, and less durable

less durable i'll give you by a hair but less deadly? for the same points you get 9 str 3 shots at 18 inches and 4 str 7 ap -3 shots. ..... what are you smoking?

It is like you don't actually play the game. Seriously, your comments are so uninformed.

It doesn't need a gun to do its job. At all. We have guns aplenty in our army anyhow.

You realize that you are taking objectives on T4+ after you have wiped out their scoring units, right? Or at least hindered their mobility so our Dragoons can do what they do.

You seem to be forgetting the -2 to-hit. Lascannons are notoriously low in shots, meaning even Space Marines need 5+ to-hit against it, while Guard will need 6's. They then need to hope they roll 6 damage to kill it outright and that is unlikely (provided they don't miraculously roll a 1 to wound). And we do get a 6++, too.

It is effective in combat - you would know if you played. Tying up units often three times their points and keeping those melee units from closing into our gunline is worth 68pt. Especially given the rest of the perks.

No one takes the S7 guns, bud. Blandguard is the go-to, soon to be bare-bones Rangers. They have mediocre guns. If you start adding in extras, you are creating a point sink in a liability unit. T3 1W models with low leadership go bye-bye very fast. Again, you would know this if you played. In all my games, Skitarii only ever lived if my opponent just ignored them outright. Often, those games they did very, very little and they are pretty awful as a screen because they are so easy to shift. If anything, it makes shifting easier because they will wipe them out and then consolidate closer!

Seriously, play some games (against something other than Ravenwing - go play Guard or Chaos or something competitive) and then get back to us. Your "evidence" is not based on playing, while the rest of us have put in the table time to back up the claims. Your opinion has no weight because of this.

gendoikari87 wrote:

1. Ravengaurd and deathgaurd are not my only opponent
2. i'm tired of you talking down to me like i don't know gak when it's clear you don't either
3. your opinion has no value to me what so ever anymore.
4. didn't even read any of this.
5. your on ignore permanently. have fun. you do you boo.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Now back the issue at hand if you want to win with Mechanicus there is a very easy way. the new codex didn't give us a lot but it gave us some things. more importantly we have the detachment system and IG is top tier right now. it uses wyverns and manticores to blast the enemy and conscripts to shoot and deny terrain. much better than dragoons could ever hope to do and they'll output a lot more damage at long range so they can sit on objectives and be a threat to half the board. So my advice is run a Spearhead of mechanicus and a detachment of guard for screening. might not be as good as pure guard but it takes the best element of the guard and gives you options. I personally run a Grey knight detachment because i like to go in hard for the kill. but that's me.

alternatively you can wait till the forgeworld book comes out because that's bound to have some nice stuff.

Iago40k wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Now back the issue at hand if you want to win with Mechanicus there is a very easy way. the new codex didn't give us a lot but it gave us some things. more importantly we have the detachment system and IG is top tier right now. it uses wyverns and manticores to blast the enemy and conscripts to shoot and deny terrain. much better than dragoons could ever hope to do and they'll output a lot more damage at long range so they can sit on objectives and be a threat to half the board. So my advice is run a Spearhead of mechanicus and a detachment of guard for screening. might not be as good as pure guard but it takes the best element of the guard and gives you options. I personally run a Grey knight detachment because i like to go in hard for the kill. but that's me.

alternatively you can wait till the forgeworld book comes out because that's bound to have some nice stuff.

Absolutely no option for me. Been playing AdMech competitively for over a year now and I will not put some Astra Militarum in it. The only thing I can see adding is an assassin. I played a lot versus AM and of course Wyvern and Manticores and I dont see a point in adding those to an AdMech army. Only thing to have might be conscripts. But they will get nerfed anyway and I dont see the point in taking them, vanguard and dragoons worked fine up until now. With the codex we got a lot of tools that we needed, esp. when it comes to screening. I do would like to see a Mars/Lucius/Stygis list though

SilverAlien wrote:
Alright, so I got to test out some of the new rules, and I really have to say I think stygies is better for onagers than mars+Cawl. -1 to incoming fire does a lot for their longevity, particularly against armies like guard with their 4+. Cawl does help more as the profile degrades, but between stygies and our new repair boosts from WT+artifact I was able to keep them at least at a 4+ up and usually at a 3+ till they got destroyed.

Kastalens still work far better alongside Cawl, but I'm considering using a unit of destroyers to activate the +1 shooting stratagem instead. It's a little bit more expensive points wise, Cawl vs dominus is 120ish points and the rangers they replace are 40, so that's around 50 extra points being spent, plus the cp as well. But it's also more firepower, getting three heavy grav culverins hitting on a 3+ as well as a couple extra phosphor hits, not to mention the durability boost both units will have.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Looking like a Cawl/Kastellen/Crawler spearhead with a Stygies battalion for everything else

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Looking like a Cawl/Kastellen/Crawler spearhead with a Stygies battalion for everything else

Yep. That seems to be the most competitive pre-FAQ build thus far.

WrentheFaceless wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Looking like a Cawl/Kastellen/Crawler spearhead with a Stygies battalion for everything else

Yep. That seems to be the most competitive pre-FAQ build thus far.

So you heard that rumor about a post release FAQ for us too?

Ideasweasel wrote:Are you guys sure there is going to be an FAQ already? Any idea of rough timescale?

Quick question as I'm returning to 40k after a very long absence. If I buy the digital Admech codex do all of the adjusted rules get posted online to the digital copy or do I still need to print FAQ sheets out?

Have never seen the value of buying the books personally as it seems they go out of fashion faster than those denim jackets with the pretend paint stains on em

*i should add I don't mean to disrespect those that enjoy the books, I just feel they don't offer much value for money for myself

Jaynen wrote:
Question about Mars Cawl Detachments, does your whole army even if not mars get the double canticles because they all have the canticles keyword?

KampfKrote wrote:
Any word on Electro Priests stats? I'm curious if they're changing at all, and which people think will be best?

KampfKrote wrote:
Is it assumed that the taser lance will be the only taser type weapon to get the bump to -1 ap? Corp Priests would be pretty nasty if they got that change as well.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

FULL CODEX SUMMARY BY ME:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8Z3pINVNaODBxR3c

 Castellan Alaric wrote:
I largely agree with your analysis of vangaurd @em_en_oh_pee, but if I was to try and use them as bubble wrap for the artillery, maybe say 2-3 units of 10 with 2 specials, could that be viable? Is it a decent point investment (128pts per index) for bubble wrap? I think then it would help keep deep strikers back away from the important stuff and give you s tiny bit of deterrent with the plasmas, or arc rifles if you so chose. More importantly for me, and I take it most of us are on the same page, is that it'd keep us with an all admech force and not be looking to bring in help from the guard index that is sure to take a hit in the areas it is so good in right now, specifically it's artillery and cheap spamable troops.

I am interested in some dragoons, but I think my most important next purchase will be a set of kastellans and then I will hopefully go for 2 balistarii boxes, and I'm conflicted on whether to go CC or shooting with them. I love the idea of mobile lascannons, but I feel like onagers are better at that, and they'll get sniped out because people don't like playing against lascannons right now (for good reason). So I could see either 2 autocannon balistarii to help with anti-infantry/hordes or some dragoons to help with a deep strike/cc buffer.

Appreciate the help boss.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Despite what gendoikari87 says - and what he says is wrong and uninformed - Dragoons are a solid screening unit that does double-duty as an objective grabber.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

That is my local metagame. Plus assaulty Wolves and some Dark Eldar spamming Lances which is actually an awful matchup for us (pre-Codex at least). For some reason my area is highly competitive.

Wolves are surprisingly not too bad. And I think we're favored slightly in the Dark Eldar matchup due to Icarus Crawlers (Venoms and Raiders have tissue paper for armor), but then again, I have always advocated doing 1:1 Neutron:Icarus.

We outgun Wolves pretty well, since they are usually somewhat elite. The issue is their speed getting into combat with stuff like Thunderwolves presents a clear-and-present threat we must mitigate.

Dark Eldar Lance spam only is an issue because of target saturation and volume of high strength, low AP fire that really chews up our vehicles. Thankfully, it is all reliant on their damage dice, because if their dice go cold, they are doing 1's and 2's, not 5's and 6's. That being said, they up the statistics by having ~15 of them on the table, meaning we will lose Robots and Onagers quickly. It isn't a list you will likely see as it suffers in most metagames, but it was one I saw in mine and noted it as something we should keep an eye out for.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Why wouldn't you give it a Phosphor Serpenta? Sure it isn't much, but it is better than nothing.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Now back the issue at hand if you want to win with Mechanicus there is a very easy way. the new codex didn't give us a lot but it gave us some things. more importantly we have the detachment system and IG is top tier right now. it uses wyverns and manticores to blast the enemy and conscripts to shoot and deny terrain. much better than dragoons could ever hope to do and they'll output a lot more damage at long range so they can sit on objectives and be a threat to half the board. So my advice is run a Spearhead of mechanicus and a detachment of guard for screening. might not be as good as pure guard but it takes the best element of the guard and gives you options. I personally run a Grey knight detachment because i like to go in hard for the kill. but that's me.

alternatively you can wait till the forgeworld book comes out because that's bound to have some nice stuff.

SilverAlien wrote:
Alright, so I got to test out some of the new rules, and I really have to say I think stygies is better for onagers than mars+Cawl. -1 to incoming fire does a lot for their longevity, particularly against armies like guard with their 4+. Cawl does help more as the profile degrades, but between stygies and our new repair boosts from WT+artifact I was able to keep them at least at a 4+ up and usually at a 3+ till they got destroyed.

Kastalens still work far better alongside Cawl, but I'm considering using a unit of destroyers to activate the +1 shooting stratagem instead. It's a little bit more expensive points wise, Cawl vs dominus is 120ish points and the rangers they replace are 40, so that's around 50 extra points being spent, plus the cp as well. But it's also more firepower, getting three heavy grav culverins hitting on a 3+ as well as a couple extra phosphor hits, not to mention the durability boost both units will have.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Looking like a Cawl/Kastellen/Crawler spearhead with a Stygies battalion for everything else

And yea, allying in X faction that happens to be OP is a crutch, should be able to win with pure Ad Mech.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Suzuteo, I was facing down a ton of Raiders (that have them mounted) with squads toting them inside, triple Ravagers, and like three flyers. It was an overwhelming amount of Dark Lances.

It was... less than fun. Caught me by surprise too.

Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Suzuteo, I was facing down a ton of Raiders (that have them mounted) with squads toting them inside, triple Ravagers, and like three flyers. It was an overwhelming amount of Dark Lances.

It was... less than fun. Caught me by surprise too.

Ah. I can see how that would be a problem. It's not like Razorback or Rhinox spam where you can tie them up with Dragoons. Flying keyword and all.

People are just being salty, but if you're objective and compare us to the CSM and SM codexes, you will see that we got some potent tools. Yes, it is true some of our stuff seems to be useless filler, but there are clearly some competitive choices.

Dude. I just showed you the math a few pages ago. Dragoons and Conscripts are equally durable screens because neither kills the other within 6 turns. The difference is that Dragoons are one large body and can move 10".