Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - ++DEPRECATED++

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**gendoikari87**

It's likely only going to be -1 on the dragoons half the time because the strategem only applies more than 12" away and dragons advance up the field.

**em_en_oh_pee**

With the idea that hitting supporting characters is kinda an issue, I have a Snipetarii variant of my previously posted list that... oddly looks viable. It skips the gimmick of t1 Fulgurites and goes for five Arquebus instead with a TPD for re-rolls.

Spoiler:

Same formula as the other list overall, but I did tuck back in a Datasmith. Just in case. It does mean we wind up with a lot of CP to burn on more Wraths throughout the game (up to three turns worth!).

**rvd1ofakind**

So who's screening in that list? 3 Dragoons won't cut it.

**ph34r**

Yoda79 wrote:
You must not take in controls list and copy it. Its a potent player and uses lists that fit his playstyle. Sure strong sure one of the v best players does not mean you ll fit the same role. Even in 7th he used war conv with conclave extremely potent but some tours where first some last its how precise he is.

Most of the cons we have already identify and talked in forums. Battalions 2 major detachments etc. Snipers as well i have said many times best gun in game neutron and our arq you should use them.

I was familiar with in control thinking and its not the best list. Its a list anticipating the ig spams and current way of thinking in the game with ig previous winner. He tried to be on top of the enemy lists not makinga generall list.

So i dont say he is not one of the best sure is but you need to think these issues according to the tour and timming the game plays. Smart of him to maximize the robots with wrath spending less vs horde lists and priests.

Datasmith is the way to go. Dont be lured in not including one. With a list heavy 5+ robots you must or risk being kittedmfrom mobile armies and out ranged. 52 points for good healing option not to spend a cp move robots second round etc must remain in such lists. Do not risk it youmll regret it if matched with mobile enemies heavy los etc.he is definetly not stupid.

Now i wish we all knew our enemies will swarm troops but they wont. And 2 neuteonagers are not enough 4-5 robots 3 neutronagers is the optimal i have played many games 2 will not be enough for dealing with all lists. And since we got limited cp s you cant waste wrath on every low str shots. Taking a knight down with wrath when shooting str 6 shots wont always do it. Same goes for priests and inflitrators. Obviously he decided to take best units for wounding with wrarh. He still gonna waste priests holding obj in heavy armor lists and definetly change some details.

Snipers do work but need 4+ to make a difference when you need.
Icarus already said no need with mars.
Dragoons work better in bigger unit atm either take a unit of 3+ 4 for priest points and can be buffed to 4+ taser or not at all. Its tax since you can have troops with -1 now cheaper. And need for cp s. Though i would take a large group of dragoons better than priests. As long as he uses the range ones if he is using the melee ones then he is using all our moryal capabilities and i support it. Only way to pass high inv. Dragoons str 8 is the best atm but cant seem to test them atm. And making a group like that 3+ seem hard to multi charge maneuver etc still better if you dont have 20 priests. But can defend better. So good luck making your decisions.
Smart list good thinking and close to the best possible atm.

Could you provide links to these people/lists? I don't have much context here.

**em_en_oh_pee**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
So who's screening in that list? 3 Dragoons won't cut it.

That is what I use in my current list and haven't had too many major issues.

**Wulfey**

About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

**Suzuteo**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:

The only issue here is that you aren't doing it with Cawl, because he has the mandatory Static Psalm-Code trait and let's be real, Cawl is the best HQ we have. So, it would be a bit gimmicky to push the repair aspects, especially when you have to blow CP, which we have precious few of.

Does Cawl really need to take the Static Psalm-Code? He's Mars, but does that mean he has the Mars warlord trait written in? (I know for a fact that his relic is built-in though.)

**em_en_oh_pee**

Suzuteo wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:

The only issue here is that you aren't doing it with Cawl, because he has the mandatory Static Psalm-Code trait and let's be real, Cawl is the best HQ we have. So, it would be a bit gimmicky to push the repair aspects, especially when you have to blow CP, which we have precious few of.

Does Cawl really need to take the Static Psalm-Code? He's Mars, but does that mean he has the Mars warlord trait written in? (I know for a fact that his relic is built-in though.)

I think so, but can't confirm as I don't have the 'Dex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wulfey wrote:
About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

Deploy wisely.

**Suzuteo**

Wulfey wrote:
About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

Depends. If you know the movement of the attacking unit, you can deploy a hair over 12" plus that amount away from them.

You're out of luck with deep strikers, but hey, 33% chance of Gets Hot is funny.

**Yoda79**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
With the idea that hitting supporting characters is kinda an issue, I have a Snipetarii variant of my previously posted list that... oddly looks viable. It skips the gimmick of t1 Fulgurites and goes for five Arquebus instead with a TPD for re-rolls.

Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead Detachment +1 CP

HQ:
Belisarius Cawl
[250]

Elites:
Datasmith
[52]

Heavy:
(6) Kastelan Robots
Triple Phosphor
[660]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & CHS
[140]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & CHS
[140]

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array
[130]

[1372]

Stygies Battalion +3 CP

HQ:
Tech-Priest Dominus
Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber
Autocaduceus or Raiment
[125]

Enginseer
[52]

Troops:
(5) Rangers
2x Arquebus
[90]

(5) Rangers
2x Arquebus
[90]

(5) Rangers
Arquebus
[65]

Fast Attack:
Sydonian Dragoon
[68]

Sydonian Dragoon
[68]

Sydonian Dragoon
[68]

[626]

[1998]

Same formula as the other list overall, but I did tuck back in a Datasmith. Just in case. It does mean we wind up with a lot of CP to burn on more Wraths throughout the game (up to three turns worth!).

Not viable in competitive sorry. 3 seperate dragoons no point. Thats the problem cant fit as detachment need to pick a unit of 3-4+ and utilise it.
Mars will not work with less than 2 battalions of cp. We said it like 200 times. You lists cant move must replace icarus with neutronager and find meat shield. Cant have so many rangers with arq with only one batt. As for troops ok in controls list has rangers but 2 * rangers 1* vanguard best atm.

**gendoikari87**

Suzuteo wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

Depends. If you know the movement of the attacking unit, you can deploy a hair over 12" plus that amount away from them.

You're out of luck with deep strikers, but hey, 33% chance of Gets Hot is funny.

dont forget the 10+ triple melta gun deepstrikes you can expect to see in tau lists. Well maybe not ten but the winner of one of the recent gts was using 5+ commanders in a supreme command detachment all armed with triple meltas

**em_en_oh_pee**

Yoda79 wrote:

Not viable in competitive sorry. 3 seperate dragoons no point. Thats the problem cant fit as detachment need to pick a unit of 3-4+ and utilise it.
Mars will not work with less than 2 battalions of cp. We said it like 200 times. You lists cant move must replace icarus with neutronager and find meat shield. Cant have so many rangers with arq with only one batt. As for troops ok in controls list has rangers but 2 * rangers 1* vanguard best atm.

Uh... the point of three Dragoons is to screen, not to use them offensively via Strategems. If you want to use the Dragoon bulldozer, sure, go for 4+ in a unit. That is not what I am doing here.

Mars works fine with 7 CP at its disposal. Wrath is only 2CP and really two uses should sweep away most major threats. What else is so demanding of the CP that we need two Battalions? \

We said like 200 times

We who? lol

You sound like you are just parroting whatever you saw InControl talking about. And "best atm" is a nonsense statement. Nothing is best yet, because our 'Dex isn't out, nor is the inevitable FAQ after it.

And replace Icarus with Neutron? Dude, I got two Neutrons. I also need to be able to knock a flyer out of the sky without always relying on the Robots. The Icarus does this and well.

**WrentheFaceless**

99% sure Cawl is locked into that warlord trait

**Wulfey**

gendoikari87 wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

Depends. If you know the movement of the attacking unit, you can deploy a hair over 12" plus that amount away from them.

You're out of luck with deep strikers, but hey, 33% chance of Gets Hot is funny.
dont forget the 10+ triple melta gun deepstrikes you can expect to see in tau lists. Well maybe not ten but the winner of one of the recent gts was using 5+ commanders in a supreme command detachment all armed with triple meltas

This is why I keep saying admech needs like 60 conscripts to really work. If you have 60+ guys you can actually push the tau commander deep strike more than 18" from your Dakkabots for two solid turns. Vanguard/Ranger screen is going to let you down by turn 2. The tau melta bomb is hands down one of the deadliest thing against an admech gunline.

**em_en_oh_pee**

Wulfey wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

Depends. If you know the movement of the attacking unit, you can deploy a hair over 12" plus that amount away from them.

You're out of luck with deep strikers, but hey, 33% chance of Gets Hot is funny.
dont forget the 10+ triple melta gun deepstrikes you can expect to see in tau lists. Well maybe not ten but the winner of one of the recent gts was using 5+ commanders in a supreme command detachment all armed with triple meltas

This is why I keep saying admech needs like 60 conscripts to really work. If you have 60+ guys you can actually push the tau commander deep strike more than 18" from your Dakkabots for two solid turns. Vanguard/Ranger screen is going to let you down by turn 2. The tau melta bomb is hands down one of the deadliest thing against an admech gunline.

*Adds Tech-Thralls to cart*

**WrentheFaceless**

Not gonna do it, conscripts are going to get hit hard by the nerf bat anyways if they're in even more lists than they already currently are (which is most top competitive lists)

**ph34r**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
*Adds Tech-Thralls to cart*

*does brief cogitating*

10 Tech-Thralls.... exact same price as 1 Tau Crisis Suit Commander. We get to spend $300 to counter a Tau army, awesome!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

WrentheFaceless wrote:
99% sure Cawl is locked into that warlord trait

Here's the relevant Codex entry, does this imply he is not locked in?

**Arachnofiend**

Which traits named characters are locked into is detailed on the Warlord Traits page, at least in the CSM book.

**Castellan Alaric**

Ideasweasel wrote:

What knight would you run instead? Also 550 points? Have the points values changed since index or do you mean with a couple of shiny extras?

Like @em_en_oh_pee said, the crusader is like 580ish all decked out with the battle cannon and gatling + the stormspear pod. It is super good, to be sure, but I loved the 6 damage fist option

If there is the possibility for knights to get rerolls, expect them to be back with a vengeance.

Right now my list has an errant with a gauntlet and an icarus autocannon due to no points left over for the stormspear pod. He is fully magnetized though so I can go gallant if I wanted or crusader as well. All based on the role I want him to play. In the process of painting him right now, and good gracious is there lots to prime black, even with my airbrush

**gendoikari87**

Wulfey wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
About the Stygies -2 to hit. Remember it is outside 12". So the front ranks will be able to shoot within 12" if your opponent goes first. Still works against static artillery.

Depends. If you know the movement of the attacking unit, you can deploy a hair over 12" plus that amount away from them.

You're out of luck with deep strikers, but hey, 33% chance of Gets Hot is funny.
dont forget the 10+ triple melta gun deepstrikes you can expect to see in tau lists. Well maybe not ten but the winner of one of the recent gts was using 5+ commanders in a supreme command detachment all armed with triple meltas

This is why I keep saying admech needs like 60 conscripts to really work. If you have 60+ guys you can actually push the tau commander deep strike more than 18" from your Dakkabots for two solid turns. Vanguard/Ranger screen is going to let you down by turn 2. The tau melta bomb is hands down one of the deadliest thing against Anything.

Ditto, but i use grey knights for screen/alpha strike. Conscripts probably work better but not my cup o tea. i like going first getting two solid rounds of shooting off before i really have to start worrying about Close combat i don't chose. (and with grey knights with rapid fire 2 storm bolters and a power sword you can charge with after firing now, i chose that a lot these days)

also fixed that for ya.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ph34r wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
*Adds Tech-Thralls to cart*

*does brief cogitating*

10 Tech-Thralls.... exact same price as 1 Tau Crisis Suit Commander. We get to spend $300 to counter a Tau army, awesome!

yes but tech thralls are sexy.

**Yoda79**

em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Yoda79 wrote:

Not viable in competitive sorry. 3 seperate dragoons no point. Thats the problem cant fit as detachment need to pick a unit of 3-4+ and utilise it.
Mars will not work with less than 2 battalions of cp. We said it like 200 times. You lists cant move must replace icarus with neutronager and find meat shield. Cant have so many rangers with arq with only one batt. As for troops ok in controls list has rangers but 2 * rangers 1* vanguard best atm.

Uh... the point of three Dragoons is to screen, not to use them offensively via Strategems. If you want to use the Dragoon bulldozer, sure, go for 4+ in a unit. That is not what I am doing here.

Mars works fine with 7 CP at its disposal. Wrath is only 2CP and really two uses should sweep away most major threats. What else is so demanding of the CP that we need two Battalions? \

We said like 200 times

We who? lol

You sound like you are just parroting whatever you saw InControl talking about. And "best atm" is a nonsense statement. Nothing is best yet, because our 'Dex isn't out, nor is the inevitable FAQ after it.

And replace Icarus with Neutron? Dude, I got two Neutrons. I also need to be able to knock a flyer out of the sky without always relying on the Robots. The Icarus does this and well.

Im not here to tolerate your tone. I write in all forums and im in my county team. I dont parot nothing you can go see dates on my posts. Giving you advice is for free if you dont like it play what you like just dont quote me kid. You can go play what you loke see me care! Next time you quote me do it with respect since i care not what you think. There are the profiles there are the posts go see them. I dont answer to you nor this is who posts first or a competition. We all try to contribute if you dont like what i say fine but wont tolerate your tine nor writting vs me. Got it? Ignored.

**WrentheFaceless**

Someone thinks rather highly of themselves.

Not sure what kindof meta is in Greece, but Oh EM knows what he's talking about

**Yoda79**

He sure can so the rest ? We all got opinions and if dont like it he can ignore posts. What he cant do is talk like that . When none talked to him directly. Its a forum i can give my opinion. And i will not tolerate smart talking. Dont know if in your country you praise disrespectful language in Greece we dont. All contribute all got right pointers all respected . Dont have to tolerate none nor he needs a lawyer. He could think twice before opening his hole got it?
But i presume in your countries respect and proper behaviour is not being taught.

And if you like that list so much and he is so pro why dont you go play it.

**gendoikari87**

he does come off as a bit of condescending ass, but i guess that's the pot calling the kettle black.

**WrentheFaceless**

He can talk however he wants within the confines of the forum rules.

And respect is earned, not given

Now enough derailing the thread with pettiness

**Yoda79**

Manners are given obiously not to all as it seems in your part of the world

**gendoikari87**

Yoda79 wrote:
Manners are given obiously not to all as it seems in your part of the world

are you kidding, this is america, arseholes and idiots are EVERYWHERE. are you telling me it's not like that in greece? cause i'll learn greek and hop on a flight tomorrow.

**Yoda79**

I dont see anyone directng offensive tone or language from Greece to none. I offered my opinion.

We are 10 milion people and gave all to civilazation. We got unique words for being mannered people and we taught democracy. No we are not acting like cave man where we try to contribute. I dont spend my time here to prove nothing. And i do it so all can benefit . Why is hard to accept lots of people got manners? No i dont tolerate none simce i just tod free advice. Dont like it dont wnat it your choise but when you direct quotes on me you ll respect as i do. Else go talk to you buddies and ask them aboit your pro list. Wich is also in the wrong threat to begin with. Spamming lists in tactics. But cant hide some got no manners one way or another. Ignored both and who cares either way he is clueless. Last 20 pages he has said nothing of value both of them. So end of story

**Verviedi**

Please act like proper Adepts of the Mechanicus, and not squabbling meatbags. This page is getting ridiculous. One could say it was already ridiculous last page. There is no need to insult each others' nationalities.

**Suzuteo**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Also, InControl pretty much said Mars + Stygie + Lucius for the bomb auxilary
So yeah, pretty much:
Cawl, 3x5 vanilla rangers (better than vanguard for screen), 6 dakkastelan and datasmith(huh) - MARS
2 enginseers, 3x5 rangers (2 snipers), 2 neutron Onagers - Stygie
20 Priests Auxilary

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I disagree. It has been confirmed multiple times that no LoS charges are a thing and a tactical decision. It goes hand in hand with charging out of flamer range to avoid the flamers.

Funny, that looks like my list, only I have 2 Icarus Crawlers instead of 2 Kastelans, and I use Dragoons instead of an Auxiliary Detachment of Electro-Priests.

Yes, I do believe that charge distance is a distance that has nothing to do with LOS. Overwatch also does not care about LOS. Am I mistaken?

SilverAlien wrote:
So, I was thinking, we keep focusing on the new priests as our anti infantry, but all the strong horde armies rely on characters, be in changling, the cheap IG HQs, assassins, or even orks with their buffing units.

A unit of rangers with two arquebus went down 10 points, and with Stygies is quite a bit tougher to shoot down. Can even hold one back to infiltrate to make sure you can get LoS.

I'm going to go back to a sniper heavier build like I used for a bit and see what happens. I think three units with 6 rifles total might be a much better investment overall.

Eh... I am not so sure about that. Arquebuses are expensive, and they rarely make back their points in time. (Six arquebuses is another Kastelan or a Crawler.) Also, it interferes a bit with their ability to serve as sacrificial body blockers.

You would probably want these Rangers in a Mars detachment. Rerolling those shots is important.

WrentheFaceless wrote:

About Ad Mech? Geoff doesnt play them anymore

He did:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/09/20/wedensday-night-fight-new-adeptus-mechanicus-vs-death-guard/

gendoikari87 wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
I'm a min-max player anti-spam, anti-soup player :p

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gendoikari87 wrote:
We have knights...

Imperium has knights. I still deny knights getting any AdMech rules. They're irrelevant as I'll never use them until someone proves me that 1 knight is a good decision in a tournament
its not.and never will be. Knights are for fun not winning.

Dude. Knights easily had the highest win rate in the pre-codex metagame. There are obstacles to them winning tournaments though: 1) Some tournaments just flat-out ban Knight armies. 2) Knights get shut down super hard by certain armies, and you pretty much have to go undefeated to win a tournament.

rvd1ofakind wrote:

Take multiple Onagers if you go Neutron

What does this mean?

gendoikari87 wrote:
It's likely only going to be -1 on the dragoons half the time because the strategem only applies more than 12" away and dragons advance up the field.

Way to find the cloud in the silver lining? Dragoons are practically unkillable at more than 12". If you want to kill them, you have to move things into within 12", things that will likely get charged the next turn.

gendoikari87 wrote:

dont forget the 10+ triple melta gun deepstrikes you can expect to see in tau lists. Well maybe not ten but the winner of one of the recent gts was using 5+ commanders in a supreme command detachment all armed with triple meltas

That will never happen because anyone with experience playing Tau knows to castle against them.