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I've done a Mars list with 6 Kataphron breachers in one unit. So a 24" long chain of T5 3W 2+

I think you have about a 75% chance of Shroudspalm every turn so that could become a 2+

Not amazing but I have the models and they are probably an OK screen.

Would be good with the Fresh Converts rule, but then their chance of shroudpsalm every turn is greatly diminished. Also the rest of Agripinaa rules are a bit sucky

Like your idea they got also good melee buff one extra hit and lowered cost but imdont know how effective they will be . For me screener dogma should be either

Graia 6+ not slain , 24" 4+ deny psych ability , 6+ moral wont flee for all wounds.
Stygia -1 hit if used as advanced army second rank deeper lines etc.

Most likely id use both since i use 2* detachments. Though mars could get double canticles id go for survival on these units.thats me but yes i like the idea of breachers for a relic map for deep obj capping with stygia . And ofc there is a gem that provides +1 save wnd +1 att. For the last efford i plan to use it on them for superb 1+ cover 5+ invu. If need.

Personally I've been actually enjoying a brigade list because we have so many good stratagems.

Kastalens+tpd/Cawl+Plasma destroyers and the stratagem are just wonderful. I'm sure mars makes it even better but I've been using Stygies

My army is painted as Metalica, will not be changing it

But figured since the rim of my bases are black, A Red stripe will go on the Mars units and the Stygies VIII ones will stay black.

Geoff made a huge mistake with his screening unit deployment. Also confirms my idea of having a Fulgurite squad in the back lines as a counter charge to mop up anything that may actually get near my Bots

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Scenario: Mars Dogma with Cawl Warlord in a mixed Forge World army.

Roll canticles twice. Each roll can have + or - 1 modifier.
Only the first canticle applies to the whole army. Both die rolls apply to the Mars detachment.

Is it fair to roll 2 dice of different colours, specifying which is the Mars only one, then decide on modifiers having seen both rolls?

Or do you think the player has to roll 1 dice, apply modifiers, then roll the 2nd?

Very different situations and rolling them one at a time seems much more of a gamble/much more likely to result in a duplicate.

Thoughts?

I will be rolling a red die (Mars) and a black die (Stygies) just so no one can complain... well, about that at least. Most likely they will be like "Your army is Metalica though!" and I will weep and weep for my poor Forge World.

Most Tournaments will want you to have your different forge worlds easily differentiated, I.E. painted differently. As your opponent I want to know what im shooting at and that Dragoon #1 is different than #2 depsite having the same paint job.

Thankfully, I am only running Dragoons from one detachment. Same for everything really. I doubt it will be an issue and if so, I can always come up with a way to denote them on the table (like base rings).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
My army is painted as Metalica, will not be changing it

But figured since the rim of my bases are black, A Red stripe will go on the Mars units and the Stygies VIII ones will stay black.

Geoff made a huge mistake with his screening unit deployment. Also confirms my idea of having a Fulgurite squad in the back lines as a counter charge to mop up anything that may actually get near my Bots

I will likely do a similar thing to mark my models for FWs.

And I have used Fulgurites for counter-assault and they do work well to free up your Robots. Just not sure we have room for them anymore, especially with a price hike.

I would say their price hike was more than evened out by the price drop of Rangers/Vanguard

And the fact we can have Enginseer HQs

Anyone ever try dakkastelens with flamers to counter charges?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I would say their price hike was more than evened out by the price drop of Rangers/Vanguard

And the fact we can have Enginseer HQs

Yea, but that doesn't "even us out" sadly. We were overpriced across the board to begin with. Nothing in our 'Dex needed a hike. If anything, everything needed a cut. Enginseers I don't take as that much of a win either, because we started with only two HQs in the first place.

The whole book feels very half-hearted and uninspired though. Maybe I am just salty...

Not worth losing 9 shots, and they're going to be eating 18 guaranteed shots with double phospor as a opposed to 9 + 2d6 which averages out to less shots at a lower str.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Not worth losing 9 shots, and they're going to be eating 18 guaranteed shots with double phospor as a opposed to 9 + 2d6 which averages out to less shots at a lower str.

But but but, what if those work best with Grey Knights?! AMIRITE?!

I dont see how allying an army that costs even more per model than ours helps.

Yeah you lose shots from the shooting phase but in the charge that's a lot of dead orks/taunts/etc enough to wipe out most squads in overwatch taking stygies for the long range protection you kill in overwatch 32 orks average so the entire squad. Outside of charging from behind cover I don't think anything can reliably get into cc wight that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I dont see how allying an army that costs even more per model than ours helps.

psyker protection mortal wounds they want to get into cc and actually kill stuff in it. 3+ armor or 2+ armor is hard to crunch through without power fists. They are more points yes but, They get gak done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also gate of infinity is broken as hell

Offtopic-ish but I'm triggered.

Here are some numbers(higher means more resilient per point):
Bolters
Conscripts 1.125
Brimstones 1.5
Onagers(T7) 1.06

Lasguns
Conscripts 3
Brimstones 4
Onagers(T7) 4.24

Lascannons
Conscripts 0.6
Brimstones 1.2
Onagers(T7) 0.075

So to kill a tank with anti horde weapons is just a tiny bit harder(or easier in terms of bolters). And killing a horde with antitank weapons is 10-20 times harder.

Yes, I think everyone agrees, the problem is conscripts, not everything else.

Conscripts do need a nerf so you really need to stop comparing everything to them.

I'd be more interested in seeing a comparison to more balanced horde models like ork boyz or gants.

After seeing that mean oblit and berzerker list i guess my screen will be 3 onagers :-D

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yes, I think everyone agrees, the problem is conscripts, not everything else.

Conscripts do need a nerf so you really need to stop comparing everything to them.

Infantry squads 4 pts? Cultists 5pts? Blue horrors 5pts?
After the current horde problems get nerfed, they'll just move on to the next

And because it is slow at work... how about some soup?



Two squads of Conscripts to wrap around the gunline with a Commissar because duh. Four Plasma squads with two Primes to maximize a turn 2 or turn 3 drop (after we blow away the enemy a bit and make some room for them!). 26 S8 shots that re-roll 1's because Scions are gross. This should help knock out nastier threats early on too, if we need. Behind that is our usual Cawl + Wrathbots and six Snipetarii, because nothing is funnier than re-roll to-hits on S7 AP -2 d3 damage sniper rifles. Those can pick off enemy Commissars and commanders. Two Neutronagers because they are reliable. This list can go hog wild with Wrath - every turn if it wants. It has the CP to do so. Plus, won't be easy to wade through 40 Conscripts (I did consider putting them in one unit, btw, which is doable without losing the Battalion perk), so our gunline should be safe. And the Scions help mitigate that issue with mobility a bit.

Not the best list probably, but I am thinking I will make it. Been wanting an excuse to buy some Scions and Tech-Thralls, so there we go!

Bolter:
Boyz 0.6
Termagants 0.675
Onagers(T7) 1.06

Lasguns:
Boyz 1.8
Termagants 1.8
Onagers(T7) 4.24

Bolter:
Boyz 0.3
Termagants 0.45
Onagers(T7) 0.075

See. MUCH more reasonable. But still pretty BS :p

gendoikari87 wrote:
Anyone know perlias colors?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also here's a weird idea, screening with flamed equipped kataphrons for your kastelans if your going to use the kataphrons/kastelan strategem.

Perlia is not a Forge World. Cain remarked that there were all sorts of different tech-priests working there, each with their own arcane symbols and colors.

So if I wanted to do a Felicia tyber army what colors do I use?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
And because it is slow at work... how about some soup?

Spoiler:

Mars Battalion Detachment +3 CP
[spoiler]
HQ:
Belisarius Cawl
[250]

Enginseer
Auto or Raiment
[52]

Troops:
(5) Rangers
2x Arquebus
[90]

(5) Rangers
2x Arquebus
[90]

(5) Rangers
2x Arquebus
[90]

Heavy:
(6) Kastelan Robots
Triple Phosphor
[660]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & CHS
[140]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & CHS
[140]

[1512]

Astra Militarum Battalion +3 CP

HQ:
Tempestor Prime
Command Rod
[40]

Tempestor Prime
Command Rod
[40]

Elites:
(4) Tempestus Command Squad
4x Plasma Guns
[64]

(4) Tempestus Command Squad
4x Plasma Guns
[64]

Commissar
Bolt Pistol
[31]

Troops:
(20) Conscripts
[60]

(20) Conscripts
[60]

(5) Tempestus Scions
2x Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol
[64]

(5) Tempestus Scions
2x Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol
[64]

[487]

[1999]

9 CP

Two squads of Conscripts to wrap around the gunline with a Commissar because duh. Four Plasma squads with two Primes to maximize a turn 2 or turn 3 drop (after we blow away the enemy a bit and make some room for them!). 26 S8 shots that re-roll 1's because Scions are gross. This should help knock out nastier threats early on too, if we need. Behind that is our usual Cawl + Wrathbots and six Snipetarii, because nothing is funnier than re-roll to-hits on S7 AP -2 d3 damage sniper rifles. Those can pick off enemy Commissars and commanders. Two Neutronagers because they are reliable. This list can go hog wild with Wrath - every turn if it wants. It has the CP to do so. Plus, won't be easy to wade through 40 Conscripts (I did consider putting them in one unit, btw, which is doable without losing the Battalion perk), so our gunline should be safe. And the Scions help mitigate that issue with mobility a bit.

Not the best list probably, but I am thinking I will make it. Been wanting an excuse to buy some Scions and Tech-Thralls, so there we go!

[/spoiler]

I am so close to running this list. I need to check my spreadsheet to see if this is what I have right now. Pretty sure you are approaching the most competitive thing you can get. I am checking to see if I really need the 6th bot. 5 may be enough.

EDIT: I am looking at swapping the 6th robot for 2 dragoons as my counter charge units. The strategem gives them 5.5 hits in combat a piece on average. And 2 dragoons are always guaranteed to be able to pile in and both fight since the rear one can just touch the front one's base.

Wulfey wrote:


I am so close to running this list. I need to check my spreadsheet to see if this is what I have right now. Pretty sure you are approaching the most competitive thing you can get. I am checking to see if I really need the 6th bot. 5 may be enough.

Six makes for a near guaranteed Magnus kill in one round through Changling's aura. I think it is worth it for the max. Especially since you can just split fire.

What else would you want to bring that costs 110pt (legit question, not snark)?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Offtopic-ish but I'm triggered.

Here are some numbers(higher means more resilient per point):
Bolters
Conscripts 1.125
Brimstones 1.5
Onagers(T7) 1.06

Lasguns
Conscripts 3
Brimstones 4
Onagers(T7) 4.24

Lascannons
Conscripts 0.6
Brimstones 1.2
Onagers(T7) 0.075

So to kill a tank with anti horde weapons is just a tiny bit harder(or easier in terms of bolters). And killing a horde with antitank weapons is 10-20 times harder.

Incidentally, I find this is why Taser Lances with their S8 AP-1 D2 hits a sweet spot. It has the strength and damage of a Plasma Gun, but the points cost, volume, and AP of a Heavy Bolter.

I did do some mathhammer on the +1 to hit Kataphron/Kastelon strategem. If you knock off 1 robot and add the strategem and a squad of breachers, it is within 1 wound of damage on Mortarian from just the 5 robots. But your point is taken that for 110 points you just won't find anything that efficient. I just worry about the Geoff problem of not having enough screen and lacking anything to fight off something that gets to the robots. If you commit to 6 robots, you are effectively saying that you either win or lose the game based on whether the robots get in combat. Now that may also be the same thing with 4-5 robots.

If i ran 6 robots I would for sure drop those sniper rifles tho. Every time I mathhammer those things they seriously let me down. 6 snipers will consistently kill a commisar ... but that is it. So you dedicate 150 points to killing that commisar but your CP stacked guard opponent can always burn 2 CP to just have the squad ignore morale anyways. It feels like too much of an investment when those points could be 2 dragoons and 6 arc rifles.

EDIT: in my current list I have celestine and greyfax. Greyfax lets me drop the commisar and depend on her LD10 and gives me 2 +1 at 24" denies. Celestine gives the conscripts 6++ and fights things off. Going up to 6 robots means I can't have those models, but gives me the ability to ace magnus.

EDIT2: also, I don't want to buy another box of robots. I have 4. It takes me a whole weekend of work to make 2 robots since I magnetize so many of their joints. I like them to be fully posable.

The problem with Fist Kastelans is a lack of synergy. You would always take them Lucius or Stygies, and you would have to pair them with Kataphrons to get Elimination Volley. A lot of CP... might as well run a Knight Warden.

gendoikari87 wrote:
So if I wanted to do a Felicia tyber army what colors do I use?

No idea. Dealer's choice.

Neat now just gotta convert a female tech priest somehow....

gendoikari87 wrote:
Neat now just gotta convert a female tech priest somehow....

The wargame exclusive models are absolutely gorgeous. Now if only they could remember to put clothes on their models more than half the time...

Wulfey wrote:
I did do some mathhammer on the +1 to hit Kataphron/Kastelon strategem. If you knock off 1 robot and add the strategem and a squad of breachers, it is within 1 wound of damage on Mortarian from just the 5 robots. But your point is taken that for 110 points you just won't find anything that efficient. I just worry about the Geoff problem of not having enough screen and lacking anything to fight off something that gets to the robots. If you commit to 6 robots, you are effectively saying that you either win or lose the game based on whether the robots get in combat. Now that may also be the same thing with 4-5 robots.

If i ran 6 robots I would for sure drop those sniper rifles tho. Every time I mathhammer those things they seriously let me down. 6 snipers will consistently kill a commisar ... but that is it. So you dedicate 150 points to killing that commisar but your CP stacked guard opponent can always burn 2 CP to just have the squad ignore morale anyways. It feels like too much of an investment when those points could be 2 dragoons and 6 arc rifles.

EDIT: in my current list I have celestine and greyfax. Greyfax lets me drop the commisar and depend on her LD10 and gives me 2 +1 at 24" denies. Celestine gives the conscripts 6++ and fights things off. Going up to 6 robots means I can't have those models, but gives me the ability to ace magnus.

EDIT2: also, I don't want to buy another box of robots. I have 4. It takes me a whole weekend of work to make 2 robots since I magnetize so many of their joints. I like them to be fully posable.

Two Snipers (with Cawl) should kill a Commissar. S7 means wounding on 2's. They hit on 3's with a re-roll on misses. AP -2 means they get no save and if you do get both through 2d3 damage average is enough to put him down.

Now, for Changeling that is another story. We will probably need all six, but if we get it through, that is a big deal! And then we can much more easily knock out Magnus with the Kastelans. That takes a lot of wind out of their sails and that is one list I fear more than most.

From what I am seeing, Inqusitor Rex > Greyfax (someone pointed it out on this thread). And Ld 10 for Conscripts is good, but the Commissar more reliable. Celestine is a whole different thing. I wouldn't run her, because while I love the model, I just don't know what she brings us that we desperately need. Counter-assault? Eh. Not as big a deal with such a deep screen, imo. Plus, look at all the Plasma in the list too - that I think counts for a lot.

For Edit2, you got to just forget about that nonsense. These are action figures! I magnetized one set of hands for Fists and realized it was a waste and never went back. I own 8... so... yea. It takes me about a day or two to knock one out to the level I did my current ones.