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Are these rumour things? Perhaps make a seperate thread then, of speculation creep is gonne come intp it.

I would love to have good bikes again. Or scourges. While I love every 5th edition DE model, I also really love the old 'gargoyle crouching' scourges.

It's just so little info that I wasn't sure if it would warrant a whole rumor thread.

There is apparently a thread going on in the Dark City with some more info, but as you said it is perhaps best to avoid more rumor creep.

I've personally tried to phase out my 3rd Edition Drukhari as they are starting to look a bit silly. I do like the old bikes however.

 Eldarsif wrote:
It's just so little info that I wasn't sure if it would warrant a whole rumor thread.

There is apparently a thread going on in the Dark City with some more info, but as you said it is perhaps best to avoid more rumor creep.

I've personally tried to phase out my 3rd Edition Drukhari as they are starting to look a bit silly. I do like the old bikes however.

A yes, the dark city. Where the grass is green and the girls are pritty. Or so the broshure at the local travel agensy says.

Its a dedicated DE website, yeah they will have a lot more talk and more to say over there, same for any army dedicated website.

But i agree, lets not talk about it here, this is a tactics thread not a rumor one.

French is my mother tongue, I could watch the video later if you want. If you create a thread let me know so that I post in the right place.

The only French I speak is a few slang terms and curse words I picked up from my Cajun family so I can't help much there.

Leaks/rumors starting already though? Laissez les bon temps rouler!

 Eldarsif wrote:
If I recall correctly the Scourge deepstrike does not count as a move so they do not get a -1 to hit when they land unless it has been FAQ-ed somewhere.

Also noticed this on a Drukhari group regarding the upcoming codex.

No more trueborns in our codex.
Covens/wyches/kabal will have bonuses when in pure detachments.
Bikes are back, with CC turn 1.
Haemonculus will be a must have.

Apparently taken from this video, but I do not speak French so I could be wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr-FdqLoKHo&feature=youtu.be

Hybrid confirmed most of that for me since he speaks french and here's some of what he said.

"you can get a heamonculus army that has -1 ap on everyone in CC (coven trait?)"

"dark lances on scourges: you can get 4 max and they are better than before ?"

"confirmed that they removed true born at 1:52:03"

"so you'll have wyches trait for your wyches, kabal trait for your kabalites and heamonculus trait for your heamonculus! No incubus cult."

"bikes move 18" can advance 8" (?), you can advance and charge, you can reroll something"

"whats good apparenlty (what they advise beginners to buy) : basic troops (kabalite, wyches), bikes (get between 6 and 9, should be able to charge on first turn)"

"they imply that it's good to have detachment for each subpart of the codex (kabal, wych cult, can't remember the English name of the last one) in the same army"

"someone is asking “Will Drukhari be super good” they answered “We don't know but if we start an army here it's because we think they are going to be good” and the other one “yeah I'm going to play them in tournaments” and the first one “In tournaments? Yeah it's true that this codex is very polyvalent you can make a really funny list or some very competitive one” basically"

"he also says that since chapter approved GW had a plan for each armies and some were hordes like with daemons, other were elite like with custodes, and DE are the first “MSU” army. one said army to harass, the other say “you see harass I see an army that goes in your face and **** you up!”"

Please note that most of the info is given in a “wink wink we are not leaking anything wink wink” so I'm interpreting a bit .
For instance the bike things, I don't know if this is with the use of stratagems or anything.

Thanks for the info, I don't really have the courage to rummage through 3 hours of video actually

If they're giving boni specific to each sub-faction, they better make the HQs good. I only ever planned on playing Kabalites and Haemonculi, but for someone who plays tourneys and is limited to 3 Detachments I can see one going Kabalite Battalion, and two 1 CP Detachments. It disturbs me that they chose to do sub-faction limitations, but we'll see with the actual previews and the codex in itself before having drastic opinions.

Dark eldar have rarly been an alfa strike army in the usual sence.

'Classic dark eldar' is usually a butkiad if superior firepower, with superior mobilaty and no defense. Take out your opponents long range capabilaties. When theyr reach is down, you dance around them until they are relativly limp. With what remains of the dark eldar (because they have been dying like flies) you start ganging up on the opponents remaining forces in chewable pieces. The big weakness is often that you have a hard time fighting big blobs, witch is where the melee elements often comes in.

Of course haemonculy builds differ very much from this. Not unlike the craftworld cusins wraight builds.

I hope we get some good boats. :-)

I think my issue is if you want all 3 sub-faction bonuses you need 'pure' separate armies for all 3 sub-factions. If i wanna do bikes i need wych detachment. If i want grotesques or talos i need a haemonculus detachment. It's the split between all 3 that can be a hard combo. That said i may just end up with one 'pure' detachment and the rest mixed together. It really depends i guess. I never used haemies much but they sound good now.

To those that play them, how are the 2 airplanes? Do yiu not pay extra for super sonic. And then gey get ignored and shoot your boats? What is their strategical advantage?

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
If I recall correctly the Scourge deepstrike does not count as a move so they do not get a -1 to hit when they land unless it has been FAQ-ed somewhere.

Also noticed this on a Drukhari group regarding the upcoming codex.

No more trueborns in our codex.
Covens/wyches/kabal will have bonuses when in pure detachments.
Bikes are back, with CC turn 1.
Haemonculus will be a must have.

Apparently taken from this video, but I do not speak French so I could be wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr-FdqLoKHo&feature=youtu.be

Hybrid confirmed most of that for me since he speaks french and here's some of what he said.

"you can get a heamonculus army that has -1 ap on everyone in CC (coven trait?)"

"dark lances on scourges: you can get 4 max and they are better than before ?"

"confirmed that they removed true born at 1:52:03"

"so you'll have wyches trait for your wyches, kabal trait for your kabalites and heamonculus trait for your heamonculus! No incubus cult."

"bikes move 18" can advance 8" (?), you can advance and charge, you can reroll something"

"whats good apparenlty (what they advise beginners to buy) : basic troops (kabalite, wyches), bikes (get between 6 and 9, should be able to charge on first turn)"

"they imply that it's good to have detachment for each subpart of the codex (kabal, wych cult, can't remember the English name of the last one) in the same army"

"someone is asking “Will Drukhari be super good” they answered “We don't know but if we start an army here it's because we think they are going to be good” and the other one “yeah I'm going to play them in tournaments” and the first one “In tournaments? Yeah it's true that this codex is very polyvalent you can make a really funny list or some very competitive one” basically"

"he also says that since chapter approved GW had a plan for each armies and some were hordes like with daemons, other were elite like with custodes, and DE are the first “MSU” army. one said army to harass, the other say “you see harass I see an army that goes in your face and **** you up!”"

This is already DE tho and always has been, when your transports are 5, or 10 unit complicity, and you can not put characters and a 5/10man into the same transports, especially with 5/10man units for special weapons. Or when units gain 1 Weapon per guy, there is no point in going up to 10 guys (All Coven are like this and Wyches/Kabals are better in 5mans due to Sargent weapons or the +1 LD and more special weapons over heavy weapons). Then units like Scourges that you get 4 per squad, so why not just do MSU of 5mans? The Drugs are worded so if you get 6 units of 1 of each drug you can now just pick w/e one you actually want for other units. Court being single models, Beast Masters and Beast being separate units, etc..

DE always and still is a MSU army, if GW made them horde or Elite that would mean they do not understand 40k at all lol.

Edit: Grammar

 Niiai wrote:
To those that play them, how are the 2 airplanes? Do yiu not pay extra for super sonic. And then gey get ignored and shoot your boats? What is their strategical advantage?

I've usually run one Razorwing Jetfighter and one Voidraven Bomber. My experience is that they are a decent distraction carnifex that can do a lot of damage if they get ignored and are allowed to fly around and take shots at things.

Razorwings at least used to be popular(and were sold out for a long time) as they are decent so I wonder how much they'll change in the codex. For the Voidraven bomber I at least hope for a slight point reduction.

You dont need Super sonic at all, unless you are playing on 16' of table lol.

I favor the bomber over the RWJF, its 14pts difference and it always does more damage than the RWJF for me.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
If I recall correctly the Scourge deepstrike does not count as a move so they do not get a -1 to hit when they land unless it has been FAQ-ed somewhere.

Also noticed this on a Drukhari group regarding the upcoming codex.

No more trueborns in our codex.
Covens/wyches/kabal will have bonuses when in pure detachments.
Bikes are back, with CC turn 1.
Haemonculus will be a must have.

Apparently taken from this video, but I do not speak French so I could be wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr-FdqLoKHo&feature=youtu.be

Hybrid confirmed most of that for me since he speaks french and here's some of what he said.

"you can get a heamonculus army that has -1 ap on everyone in CC (coven trait?)"

"dark lances on scourges: you can get 4 max and they are better than before ?"

"confirmed that they removed true born at 1:52:03"

"so you'll have wyches trait for your wyches, kabal trait for your kabalites and heamonculus trait for your heamonculus! No incubus cult."

"bikes move 18" can advance 8" (?), you can advance and charge, you can reroll something"

"whats good apparenlty (what they advise beginners to buy) : basic troops (kabalite, wyches), bikes (get between 6 and 9, should be able to charge on first turn)"

"they imply that it's good to have detachment for each subpart of the codex (kabal, wych cult, can't remember the English name of the last one) in the same army"

"someone is asking “Will Drukhari be super good” they answered “We don't know but if we start an army here it's because we think they are going to be good” and the other one “yeah I'm going to play them in tournaments” and the first one “In tournaments? Yeah it's true that this codex is very polyvalent you can make a really funny list or some very competitive one” basically"

"he also says that since chapter approved GW had a plan for each armies and some were hordes like with daemons, other were elite like with custodes, and DE are the first “MSU” army. one said army to harass, the other say “you see harass I see an army that goes in your face and **** you up!”"

This codex is already sounding like complete garbage.

So business as usual for DE.

Scourges can already have max 4 dark lances in a single squad.

I'd really like viable bikes and coven stuff since I have tons of those units. I'm quite pissed about the trueborn mostly because many players including me have converted a few kabalites into them and don't know how to with their 8+ blaster guys now

I'm planning on getting a bomber, even before the codex. I found a new model with a nice discount and the razorwing is really too close to a ravager.

 Blackie wrote:
Scourges can already have max 4 dark lances in a single squad.

I'd really like viable bikes and coven stuff since I have tons of those units. I'm quite pissed about the trueborn mostly because many players including me have converted a few kabalites into them and don't know how to with their 8+ blaster guys now

I'm planning on getting a bomber, even before the codex. I found a new model with a nice discount and the razorwing is really too close to a ravager.

It's funny because the other day I was having a conversation and I actually said that I wouldn't care if trueborn were removed and that I actually thought it may happen. They are more then 50% the cost of a Kabalite. They are irrelevant. Back in 5th when you could take three all with blasters they priced out efficiently but now they are in this strange spot. I can get 5 obsec guys with a blaster for 50 or I can get 5 elite slot fellas with a blaster for 70, thats the same profile except for that extra attack you pay 4 points for lol. Sure you can take another blaster and that pushes them to 85, meanwhile I'd rather just buy a second warrior squad which may cost me 100, but I now have twice the wounds, 2 squads and extra splinter fire as well as being much closer to another battalion.

All they should do is change the amount of specials or heavies a squad of warriors can take by making it 1 heavy and special under 10 models and 10 or more models allows for an extra heavy or special. Right now it forces you to take a full 20 which is stupid.

There's also the issue that they never released a kit, which forces players to get creative when acquiring blasters. I am not to upset, I have already found min warriors squads to be superior in every way. I mean, if I want more heavy or special weapons on a 5 man team why wouldn't I just take scourge, for 3 points I get superior mobility and better armor plus access to more gear (granted half of it doesn't work currently).

I am intrigued by the rumor for reavers. That makes them insanely fast. 26" move plus an average 7 inch assault means they can deploy normally, jump scout screens and still hit the backfield guns, silencing them by tying them up and there is not much to do to block them since they have fly unless they really cramp their deployment zone (which will happen but kind of forces them into a kill box).

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's funny because the other day I was having a conversation and I actually said that I wouldn't care if trueborn were removed and that I actually thought it may happen. They are more then 50% the cost of a Kabalite. They are irrelevant.

This is something that could have been easily fixed though. They didn't just have to remove them altogether.

Frankly, I think that's been done to DE enough already.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Back in 5th when you could take three all with blasters they priced out efficiently but now they are in this strange spot. I can get 5 obsec guys with a blaster for 50 or I can get 5 elite slot fellas with a blaster for 70, thats the same profile except for that extra attack you pay 4 points for lol. Sure you can take another blaster and that pushes them to 85, meanwhile I'd rather just buy a second warrior squad which may cost me 100, but I now have twice the wounds, 2 squads and extra splinter fire as well as being much closer to another battalion.

They seem to have a ridiculous opportunity cost. Devastators, for example, can get more heavy weapons than tactical marines, but they don't pay extra points for it in their case cost. They also have a sergeant with a useful ability - as opposed to the completely worthless Dracon that Trueborn are stuck with.

Trueborn should be - at most - 1pt more than regular warriors (since they have an extra attack, however worthless it is).

 Red Corsair wrote:

All they should do is change the amount of specials or heavies a squad of warriors can take by making it 1 heavy and special under 10 models and 10 or more models allows for an extra heavy or special. Right now it forces you to take a full 20 which is stupid.

It would also be nice if the transport capacity of Raiders and Venoms was increased by 1. So that characters are actually allowed to ride with their squads.

Transport fix has been begged for for ages, I really hope they get it right this time.

I actually hope the dracon returns as a second in command model. It always annoyed me that they made the lieutenant versions of archons and archites (succubus) sergeants for ham fisted elites.

I get that folks are used to trueborn and bloodbrides, but I have a feeling those same folks didn't play DE prior to 5th. Back in the day normal warriors and wyches were amazing. Now they are a troop tax. I'd rather we had more elite acting troops.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I actually hope the dracon returns as a second in command model. It always annoyed me that they made the lieutenant versions of archons and archites (succubus) sergeants for ham fisted elites.

Yeah, that was a really annoying. They didn't even make them the equivalent of Eldar Exarchs.

 Red Corsair wrote:

I get that folks are used to trueborn and bloodbrides, but I have a feeling those same folks didn't play DE prior to 5th. Back in the day normal warriors and wyches were amazing. Now they are a troop tax. I'd rather we had more elite acting troops.

That's very true, I've only played since 5th.

Could you give me an idea of what Warriors used to be like?

They could get double special and double heavy at 10 models for warriors and wyches were drastically different. They also could get two specials and could take them on 5 man squads. So you had wyches running around with blasters which was amazing. They also ended up updating the wych profiles and instead of having 3 unique weapons like they are again now, they just said the whole team counted as using gladiatorial gear. So whiches had the 4++ in combat but the wych weapons said enemies lost their bonus attack for extra CCW (which is dated now) and so long as the enemy was not double the strength of the wyches (so 6) they halved their weapon skill while in combat with them. Still had drugs back then, in fact there were two types, the once per game roll and then the wargear version wich any character could take. The wargear version let you take any of the 6 boosts any number of time, but you rolled a die per use and any doubles caused a wound. So when you knew your guy was bonned you could make a huge gamble, I remember rolling 4 dice with no doubles on a sybarite once and mulching a unit.

So long story short, they don't seem amazing now, but you need to understand that the context was 3rd edition, and they were pretty amazing back then. Especially wyches, i remember being so bummed when they went BACK to the lame 1 per 3 models unique gear and on top of that lost the ability to take blasters. Then I was equally miffed when I noticed they reduced the options on basic warriors, then created an elite version. Granted trueborn got more options, but I have always like my basic troops to be decent. Heck even incubi had a tormenter helm lol. It was just a pistol but it always made them like dark scorpians.

Not expecting to revert to all the old stuff (like biker archons lol) but it wouldn't bother me if they simply boost the actual troops rather then trying to make are guys just like space marines. All our stuff should act elite at it's roll, no need for two tiered versions. At least in my opinion.

 Red Corsair wrote:
They could get double special and double heavy at 10 models for warriors and wyches were drastically different. They also could get two specials and could take them on 5 man squads. So you had wyches running around with blasters which was amazing. They also ended up updating the wych profiles and instead of having 3 unique weapons like they are again now, they just said the whole team counted as using gladiatorial gear. So whiches had the 4++ in combat but the wych weapons said enemies lost their bonus attack for extra CCW (which is dated now) and so long as the enemy was not double the strength of the wyches (so 6) they halved their weapon skill while in combat with them. Still had drugs back then, in fact there were two types, the once per game roll and then the wargear version wich any character could take. The wargear version let you take any of the 6 boosts any number of time, but you rolled a die per use and any doubles caused a wound. So when you knew your guy was bonned you could make a huge gamble, I remember rolling 4 dice with no doubles on a sybarite once and mulching a unit.

So long story short, they don't seem amazing now, but you need to understand that the context was 3rd edition, and they were pretty amazing back then. Especially wyches, i remember being so bummed when they went BACK to the lame 1 per 3 models unique gear and on top of that lost the ability to take blasters. Then I was equally miffed when I noticed they reduced the options on basic warriors, then created an elite version. Granted trueborn got more options, but I have always like my basic troops to be decent. Heck even incubi had a tormenter helm lol. It was just a pistol but it always made them like dark scorpians.

Not expecting to revert to all the old stuff (like biker archons lol) but it wouldn't bother me if they simply boost the actual troops rather then trying to make are guys just like space marines. All our stuff should act elite at it's roll, no need for two tiered versions. At least in my opinion.

Thanks for explaining that. Yeah, I can definitely see why you'd prefer the old versions of Warriors and Wyches.

On the one hand, I agree with you - it would be nice if our troops were a bit more elite. Letting them take additional special weapons might help them live up to their role as glass cannons.

On the other hand, it would be nice if a DE codex could actually have more units in it than the previous one - as opposed the more recent books which have had fewer units (not to mention wargear and such).

You and me both mate, I wish so bad we could at least have our faction lead boss. Makes no sense that Vect isn't getting ANY attention. I mean then there is the fact I have a Baron, Duke and Decapitator conversions that have no rules

Oh well, Not excited to see any units go, but at the end of the day, if they do it right I think we will be OK. I am cautiously optimistic at this point.

I don't think we'll get new units in the codex without the release of new kits/models. Since we're not SM or chaos I guess the ynnari guys will be our only release for years

Although I get why we are losing BB and TB it still hurts considering we've already lost so many units over the years.

I also think they won't boost special/heavy weapon loadout in normal squads.There is a growing selection of Drukhari weapons on places like Shapeways and they might very well want to nip that in the bud.

I won't judge yet, since we know literally next to nothing, but rumors indicating that bonuses will be tied solely to full <wych cult> <kabal> etc detachments is...noooot encouraging.

Dark Eldar are a mercenary faction. They always have been. The answer to "why is there one haemonculus and a Talos working with the Kabal" is always plainly and simply "they paid him".

The simplest, easiest option to leave the army functional and playable would be to put in a Brood Brothers style rule where you select either <Kabal> <Wych Cult> or <Coven> and the units in your army that have that get a trait, and units in the army that don't but are still Dark Eldar do not cause you to lose that trait.

Then all youd have to do is ensure that the traits are reasonably impactful (because they'd likely be affecting even fewer units than Space Marine traits) and you're off to a good start making Dark Eldar feel fluffy and reasonable trade offs.

Just make our Troop and HQ units into things that are useful to take multiples of, and you've got yourself a functional dark eldar army. Please GW. Look at a wych. now look at a genestealer. Now look back at a wych. One of these things should be roughly the same power as the other one, and they obviously are not.

It's a bit (a lot) of a stretch to think Wyches should be directly comparable to Genestealers. If we start comparing directly unit to unit without taking into context both internal balance of the Codex and external balance between them, the only possible end to that road is generic grey blob units on the board that all do exactly the same thing.

Like sure, we don't have a dickpunch melee unit quite like the Genestealers, but the 'Nids also don't have a 155 pt gunboat that can move 14", has a 5++, and can shoot ghetto lascannons at full Ballistic Skill.

Am I saying we're balanced relative to Tyranids, or any Codex army? Well, other than the poor Grey Knights maybe, no. But make the right comparison - Codex to Codex, not unit to unit.

Honestly we were a top 3 Index army. There were a lot of useless units and sure you had to make a Craftworld plugin detachment to be competitive, but that was true of everyone on the useless units side and everyone who could take other factions did. We're only as bad as we are due to other armies having their full book.

 Chippen wrote:

Like sure, we don't have a dickpunch melee unit quite like the Genestealers, but the 'Nids also don't have a 155 pt gunboat that can move 14", has a 5++, and can shoot ghetto lascannons at full Ballistic Skill.

That's true. Theirs is a little more expensive and only moves 12" but has a 4++, deep strikes, and is great in CC.

You totally missed the point, but hey if you like to cherrypick from people's posts to make a snarky reply, you do you.