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Martel732 wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The aggression just gets us killed atm. I'm not sure how the codex magically changes that.

Im having success with a 15 man JP DC squad atm, Lemartes and Sang Priest make sure they are a threat to pretty much anything, I keep them cheap at 20 pts each, chainsword and bolt pistol, 60 re roll attacks on the charge at str 5 will make a dent in pretty much anything.

That's close to my version of 15 man JP DC with Astorath and a libby. Mine costs more, since I'm rocking 3 X thunder hammer, 3 X power sword in the squad, but immunity to morale, plus shield of sanguinius and unleash rage are hot on 15 dudes. Plus, astorath helps other BA squads as well (if that mattered). I really feel like priests are best with multiwound units. I've never missed the reroll on the charge, and Astorath is better at punching and taking hits.

I just use the Priest for the STR 5 buff really, bringing back marines is just a bonus. 60 str 5 attacks on the cheap can actually hurt T6/T7/T8 on the charge pretty decently. Your setup is very nice as well.

gkos wrote:
very posh model that one.. mine look like this, see the regulation issue armour on the image

Spoiler:

I approve. You can definitely use those as apothecaries IMO.

Result!

To answer my own question about the Necron vehicles, I'm thinking I'm going to need either heavy flamers (and get close) or assault cannons as I need to deal a lot of 1 wound damage to negate the shielding.

any thoughts?

Both are quite good. With the ability to take a lot of TLACs on razors and baal preds, you shouldn't have any lack of it.

excellent, thankfully my first re-investment in my ancient BA army was four razorbacks and a whirlwind. shame the razorbacks have las cannons on the top, but they will look cool once painted up in red

gkos wrote:
excellent, thankfully my first re-investment in my ancient BA army was four razorbacks and a whirlwind. shame the razorbacks have las cannons on the top, but they will look cool once painted up in red

If you still have the heavy bolters they came with, and some extra assault cannons laying around, it's not too hard to take the turrets apart, cut off the pegs and replace them with a magnet, then magnetize the Las cannnon turret, and convert the heavy bolters into assault cannons.

I did this with 3 of mine and will probably do a couple more in the future.

I agree with Melissa that we're supposed to be a codex chapter, but an extremely aggressive codex chapter. Every time we get unique toys the smurfs take them from us and hand them out like candy. We invented viable razor spam back in fifth. All of our stuff should move faster and hit harder.

My wish list:

Return the Lucifer engines to the rhino chassis and let them shoot at full ballistic if they don't overcharge their engines.

Reduced price pistols, like storm bolter levels of reduced, as well as the other BA specific wargear people have mentioned. Seriously a storm bolter is functionally better than a flame pistol

DC should get the same death frenzy ability that Wolfen get. Don't let us attack twice like khorn berserkers because we keep the rage in check, but by the emperor we should never be denied our swings in combat. Full attack profile too, not just one swing.

More planes! No reason we shouldn't have access to a full air force.

Priests need terminator armor and bikes, because we all already have the models.

Slightly cheaper termies, but let us mix the squad types. We've got space hulks to clear out!

More artificer armor and master crafted upgrade access, we're the artists or the warhammer world.

Reduced JP cost that is reflected in JP primaris models as well.

At least 5+ FNP bubble access.

We shouldn't have the greatest combat focused units in the game, but we should be able to buff up to meet them as we work to unleash our inner Mephiston.

Baals should be able to fall back and shoot.

Wings of Sanguinius.

Also, here's a list I've been working on. It's supposed to have shooting for all the high toughness and melee units, with my melee going after scoring and squishy units that my opponent would rather didn't get charged.

 brokbrok wrote:
I agree with Melissa that we're supposed to be a codex chapter, but an extremely aggressive codex chapter. Every time we get unique toys the smurfs take them from us and hand them out like candy. We invented viable razor spam back in fifth. All of our stuff should move faster and hit harder.

While it would be great for us to have an identity, balance-wise it's completely nonsensical to make one codex chapter blatantly better than the others. We already have some pretty great and unique choices, as well as the pretty iconic chapter rules. Making our vehicles objectively better, our CC better and giving us even more fancy toys just completely knocks the other chapters off the table. If we're fast AND still have the rest, why play white scars for just the one model?

Realistically, I'd love for BA to have even more thematic rules and such, but with chapter tactics, the sanguinary discipline, access to flamers and all of our unique fancy toys we've already got a solid identity. Providing straight up buffs is a bit of a dilemma, so I reckon hold off judgement on our identity until the codex comes out.

Actually, Descent of Angels would make for a great stratagen. 2 or 3 cp, can be activated only once. When activated, during this turn only, BA jump pack and terminator models that arrived by deep strike can move normally after arriving.

I mean, maybe that's just my drowsiness-addled mind thinking but that'd be fun, maybe not balanced but...

 Melissia wrote:
Actually, Descent of Angels would make for a great stratagen. 2 or 3 cp, can be activated only once. When activated, during this turn only, BA jump pack and terminator models that arrived by deep strike can move normally after arriving.

I mean, maybe that's just my drowsiness-addled mind thinking but that'd be fun, maybe not balanced but...

Maybe not Move, but Advance? DS at9+ Advance, try for a charge...worth 1 or 2 CPs I think...

 brokbrok wrote:
More planes! No reason we shouldn't have access to a full air force.

What are you talking about ? We already have access to the interceptor and the two gunships.

p5freak wrote:

 brokbrok wrote:
More planes! No reason we shouldn't have access to a full air force.

What are you talking about ? We already have access to the interceptor and the two gunships.

I am not aware of any errata changing this, afaik the list of SM units available to us does not feature the stormtalon or the stormhawk.

You are right, my fault. But FW has some flyers we can use.

pinecone77 wrote:
Maybe not Move, but Advance? DS at9+ Advance, try for a charge...worth 1 or 2 CPs I think...

That precludes the ability to shoot anything but assault weapons, though.

How about double charge distance, or add +3 to the charge roll?

 Melissia wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Maybe not Move, but Advance? DS at9+ Advance, try for a charge...worth 1 or 2 CPs I think...

That precludes the ability to shoot anything but assault weapons, though.

How about double charge distance, or add +3 to the charge roll?

What about Sanguinus came back and is basically Guilliman with psychic power and wings for 360 points ? I'd settle on that.

The fewer army-wide special rules that are tied to named characters, the better.

Guilliman and magnus can gtfo back to 30k as far as I'm concerned...

 Melissia wrote:
The fewer army-wide special rules that are tied to named characters, the better.

Guilliman and magnus can gtfo back to 30k as far as I'm concerned...

Might as well get used to them, because it certainly seems like the rest will be following shortly. Hopefully if that is their plan, they at least won't bring the dead ones back. As much as Sanguinius is one of the most bad ass primarchs of them all, he's dead and should stay that way, at least imo.

 Melissia wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Maybe not Move, but Advance? DS at9+ Advance, try for a charge...worth 1 or 2 CPs I think...

That precludes the ability to shoot anything but assault weapons, though.

How about double charge distance, or add +3 to the charge roll?

Yeah, thats the thing...it needs to be good, but not too good. For some reason I think you can fire Pistols on an advance...???

You cant fire pistols on advance, only assault weapons.

 Melissia wrote:
The current BA apothecaries are "Sanguinary Priests", which wear white armor, red shoulders, and typically go without helmets-- but red helmets would be perfectly fine.

So IMO, you could use them without having any excuse really.

Sanguinary Priests are actually better than normal apothecaries, as they give an aura of +1 strength to friendly units with a model within 6".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference, it's this guy:

Front:
(snipped image)
Back:
(snipped image)

However, standard apothecaries painted in BA/Apothecary colors work just fine, you'd still say they're sanguinary priests as that's what BA use as apothecaries. SM use ancestral armor all the time after all, why not use armor from previous editions?

This is close to correct, but allow me to make one minor correction.

The Apothecary in the standard marine codex is called a Sanguinary Novitiate, and can equip a jump pack, unlike his standard space marine counterpart. This was previously part of a Blood Angels command squad, which consisted of 3x veteran marines, a Company Champion, and the Sanguinary Novitiate. He's basically an elite version of the Sanguinary High Priest (referenced above by Melissia) and has the Narthecium, allowing him to attempt to heal models or revive slain models in a squad. The Novitiate is an Elite choice, and is a character/stand alone model. He does not have the Chalice, which grants the +1 to strength to any units within 6" of him. In the index, I don't know if the Novitiate is just called an Apothecary now, but I know in at least the last codex Blood Angels received, they were specifically called Sanguinary Novitiates.

Now, the Sanguinary High Priests, or Sanguinary Priests, are the HQ choice option and are mostly identical to the Sanguinary Novitiate, but have more wargear options, plus the cool model that Mellissia linked in her post, and also have the Blood Chalice that grants the lovely +1 Strength bonus to nearby BA units in addition to the Narthecium.

I run the Novitiate regularly with good success, he generally helps keep my Captain/Librarian and Company Champion alive for an extra turn or two once they start taking wounds. The High Priest is also extremely useful as well, especially near an assault oriented unit such as Sanguinary Guard and Death Company, or just a large squad of Assault Marines/Vanguard Veterans.

Just offering that for consideration. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Just a strange thought, but what is the viability of an all Dreadnought army as Blood Angels? Been tinkering with points and it looks like it could be real fun.

Will definitely be an option with the codex because they'll get the ironclad treatment + some usefull ct.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Just a strange thought, but what is the viability of an all Dreadnought army as Blood Angels? Been tinkering with points and it looks like it could be real fun.

I pointed out a list with 2 libby dreads and like 6 or 7 DC dreads, and currently I think our dreads are way too expensive as Panda eluded to. All the other dreads base around 80-90 for SM and chaos dreads and ours are up at nearly 130 points base, and then there is no reason to currently run a furioso over the DC dread other than frag cannon. The Blood talons also need a complete rework as they are completely and utterly inferior to the double fists, and they cost 15 points more!

I think it could be a cool, fun list, but basically, you can run (almost) as many dreadknights as you can BA dreads in a list and I'd wager the dreadknights are going to be far superior, so we'll see after a points drop and maybe some new rules/wargear for them.

bobafett012 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Just a strange thought, but what is the viability of an all Dreadnought army as Blood Angels? Been tinkering with points and it looks like it could be real fun.

I pointed out a list with 2 libby dreads and like 6 or 7 DC dreads, and currently I think our dreads are way too expensive as Panda eluded to. All the other dreads base around 80-90 for SM and chaos dreads and ours are up at nearly 130 points base, and then there is no reason to currently run a furioso over the DC dread other than frag cannon. The Blood talons also need a complete rework as they are completely and utterly inferior to the double fists, and they cost 15 points more!

I think it could be a cool, fun list, but basically, you can run (almost) as many dreadknights as you can BA dreads in a list and I'd wager the dreadknights are going to be far superior, so we'll see after a points drop and maybe some new rules/wargear for them.

Well, I was playing around on Battlescribe and was able to get 14 Dreads in a list in three Vanguard Detachments.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Just a strange thought, but what is the viability of an all Dreadnought army as Blood Angels? Been tinkering with points and it looks like it could be real fun.

I pointed out a list with 2 libby dreads and like 6 or 7 DC dreads, and currently I think our dreads are way too expensive as Panda eluded to. All the other dreads base around 80-90 for SM and chaos dreads and ours are up at nearly 130 points base, and then there is no reason to currently run a furioso over the DC dread other than frag cannon. The Blood talons also need a complete rework as they are completely and utterly inferior to the double fists, and they cost 15 points more!

I think it could be a cool, fun list, but basically, you can run (almost) as many dreadknights as you can BA dreads in a list and I'd wager the dreadknights are going to be far superior, so we'll see after a points drop and maybe some new rules/wargear for them.

Well, I was playing around on Battlescribe and was able to get 14 Dreads in a list in three Vanguard Detachments.

3 vanguards would require 3 libby dreads which are absolute minimum 192 points a piece. DC dreads are 197 points minimum, and Furiosos are 183 points minimum. We don't have access to iron clads. So yeah you could run a bunch of cheap basic dreads out of the SM book, but what fun is that? you don't get any BA goodness other than Libby dread, and your likely to be lacking ranged anti armor.

You can get more than 14 of them if you are going twin heavy bolter and missile launcher but I just don't see they being very effective.

I think the big problem with Blood Angels is they don't have an identity. Everytime I talk to someone, I hear something different. We're the jump pack army, we're a Codex marines army, we're a fast mechanized army, we're a close combat army, etc. So which is it?

I think all the jump pack stuff comes from the 5th ed Codex where we could take them as troops. I think GW has the same issue as each Codex that comes out our rules are pretty different.

I hope our Codex makes us fast, and hard hitting. If I'm wishlisting, give us a dedicated flyer back, a close combat Primaris unit (Primaris DC please), and bring back Sanguinius (fluff-wise I'd be annoyed, but the model and rules would be so good I'd give him a pass). And of course we need all the regular stuff like points adjustments and such.

 theharrower wrote:
I think the big problem with Blood Angels is they don't have an identity. Everytime I talk to someone, I hear something different. We're the jump pack army, we're a Codex marines army, we're a fast mechanized army, we're a close combat army, etc. So which is it?

I think all the jump pack stuff comes from the 5th ed Codex where we could take them as troops. I think GW has the same issue as each Codex that comes out our rules are pretty different.

I hope our Codex makes us fast, and hard hitting. If I'm wishlisting, give us a dedicated flyer back, a close combat Primaris unit (Primaris DC please), and bring back Sanguinius (fluff-wise I'd be annoyed, but the model and rules would be so good I'd give him a pass). And of course we need all the regular stuff like points adjustments and such.

It's the same conundrum as the last two editions.

Martel732 wrote:

 theharrower wrote:
I think the big problem with Blood Angels is they don't have an identity. Everytime I talk to someone, I hear something different. We're the jump pack army, we're a Codex marines army, we're a fast mechanized army, we're a close combat army, etc. So which is it?

I think all the jump pack stuff comes from the 5th ed Codex where we could take them as troops. I think GW has the same issue as each Codex that comes out our rules are pretty different.

I hope our Codex makes us fast, and hard hitting. If I'm wishlisting, give us a dedicated flyer back, a close combat Primaris unit (Primaris DC please), and bring back Sanguinius (fluff-wise I'd be annoyed, but the model and rules would be so good I'd give him a pass). And of course we need all the regular stuff like points adjustments and such.

It's the same conundrum as the last two editions.

They've definitely went through some major changes. I didn't start until the white dwarf codex came out, either 4th or 5th edition. Though I do remember playing a BA player back in 2nd, and they had to go through their entire army rolling dice to see which models were overcame by the black rage and joined the Death company. It was kind of interesting.

Yeh you were getting an extra squad, was pretty nice mechanic but definetily not easy to applicate

Their in-game identity isn't that hard to figure out. They are mostly codex-adherent chapter that is more aggressive in battle.