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Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone know if the new Comms array thing for infiltrators which lets them use the Phobos captain and Lt bonuses is free ??

10 pts.

which is proably worth it for a squad or two.

BrianDavion wrote:
which is proably worth it for a squad or two.

I don't know why they didn't just make it another special Marine like the Helix Adept. But it looks more like it is a squad upgrade rather than an upgrade to a Marine.

I think that's a good deal it allows you to split your forces. Thinking of having a squad of 10 then combat squadding them and having both 5 man squad deploy out of my deployment zone near an objective in cover and just sit there harassing the enemy and holding an objective forcing them to divert attention to the mini castle.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I think that's a good deal it allows you to split your forces. Thinking of having a squad of 10 then combat squadding them and having both 5 man squad deploy out of my deployment zone near an objective in cover and just sit there harassing the enemy and holding an objective forcing them to divert attention to the mini castle.

If you combat squad them, then only the half with the comms array benefits. Also, it specifically only works with Phobos Captain and Liutenant, and those are crappy.

You may be right...I just want to use my infiltrators! :(

Rogerio134134 wrote:
You may be right...I just want to use my infiltrators! :(

Yeah, me too. I really don't think they need the aura though. They have dinky bolters, they don't do much damage anyway. Their main job is to stop deep strikers and contest objectives.

True dude yeah, I'm definitely having a squad of 5 in my list because I've painted 10 of them and I love the models.

They definitely seem like a tactical unit like you say rather than a battle line unit like intercessors.

Btw, now browsing these combo ideas and people thinking of using the chaplain's +2 charge from the drop pod.. doesn't the chaplain's aura abilities come into effect at the start of the round so you can't use the drop podding chaplain's aura on the turn of arrival? Or have I missed something?

I'm so eager to find use for my three painted drop pods. So far sternguard feel the best or grav devs, but atleast sternguard would benefit coming on T2 with tactical doctrine active.

Xirax wrote:
Btw, now browsing these combo ideas and people thinking of using the chaplain's +2 charge from the drop pod.. doesn't the chaplain's aura abilities come into effect at the start of the round so you can't use the drop podding chaplain's aura on the turn of arrival? Or have I missed something?

You can use it, but he cant be in the pod. Jump/Bike Chappys are gonna be the way to go if youre wanting to slingshot stuff out of pods.

Sterling191 wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Btw, now browsing these combo ideas and people thinking of using the chaplain's +2 charge from the drop pod.. doesn't the chaplain's aura abilities come into effect at the start of the round so you can't use the drop podding chaplain's aura on the turn of arrival? Or have I missed something?

You can use it, but he cant be in the pod. Jump/Bike Chappys are gonna be the way to go if youre wanting to slingshot stuff out of pods.

Yeah this. You might see more JP Chaplains on the field now as they can cast it turn 2 and still affect deep striking units.

Jp chaplin jumping up the field t1 to get within range for the big t1 drop pod drops. He should be able to get to where the pods drop t1 with and advance. Bike Chaplin is a different thing, if its using the index data sheet i don't see how it would get the new rules, just the new point costs that would apply (weapon costs and stuff).

I’m looking at how best to make use of my chapter tactics for Crimson Fists. The best units are arguably going to be the small ones - especially vehicles as they are units of 1.

The most improved unit might actually be assault centurions. They’ve had an enormous price drop while gaining a wound, an attack and angels of death. Their storm raven transport now gets CTs and even more dakka from the hurricane bolters. Even three of them can do 13 S10 attacks hitting on 3s and doing 3 damage. Plus of course they’ve got pretty absurd amounts of dakka with the hurricane bolters and flamers. That unit costs 156 points.

Stalker bolters might also be good. The strat to shoot as sniper rifles could be very interesting if I also use the crimso fist strat to get +1 to wound characters. They could actually fish pretty effectively for mortal wounds on things like Pask and Knights, while also scoring normal wounds on a 5+ with -3ap. If they see actual infantry characters, or even things like jetbike custodes guys, they could be in serious trouble.

Vehicles count as 5 models for the crimson fist chapter tactic.

As for the best units, minimum sizes and 3 man teams will be best. Agressors, centurians, suppressors, all those neat special primaris units work great.

Also veteran squads as they start as a squad size of 2.

3 man bike teams or the single attack bike gets an honerable mention as well.

Oh yes, I forgot about vehicles counting as five. That makes Crimson Fists a little worse as a mech force. Those three man teams will be good though.

In reality there probably isn’t that much difference between three and five man Crimson fist squads, as it only matters if there are eight or nine models in the target unit. That could apply for things like infantry squads with a heavy weapon, but not too much else.

I can actually see myself taking ten man intercessor squads. I like intercessors lots and have used them even with the (not all that) old version of the tactics. They now only need 15 models in their target unit to get the bonus, rather than 20, so they’re significantly improved. And it’s good value to use the rapid fire strat on them.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
which is proably worth it for a squad or two.

I don't know why they didn't just make it another special Marine like the Helix Adept. But it looks more like it is a squad upgrade rather than an upgrade to a Marine.

so does that mean you can have it with a helix adept?

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
which is proably worth it for a squad or two.

I don't know why they didn't just make it another special Marine like the Helix Adept. But it looks more like it is a squad upgrade rather than an upgrade to a Marine.

so does that mean you can have it with a helix adept?

Yes but at that point you might as well just take a repuslor executioner - you are about 70% of the way.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
which is proably worth it for a squad or two.

I don't know why they didn't just make it another special Marine like the Helix Adept. But it looks more like it is a squad upgrade rather than an upgrade to a Marine.

so does that mean you can have it with a helix adept?

No. It is either the medic or the comms guy. You can't have both.

Martel732 wrote:
I was getting confused there myself. Charging doesn't matter for a null zone run.

Why are you confused? It is a suicide run. Libbies have a force staff. You could easily put out a little extrea damage and you are going to be utilizing the null zone for a shooting attack 99% of the time. It would be great to charge a vheical that hits on 6's and cant fall back and shoot put some damage out. It's nitpicky but it is relevant. Worth noting that with warp time you can do what I was suggesting - get in range to cast death hex and then charge after.

 Crimson wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
You may be right...I just want to use my infiltrators! :(

Yeah, me too. I really don't think they need the aura though. They have dinky bolters, they don't do much damage anyway. Their main job is to stop deep strikers and contest objectives.

There's some pretty nice relic bolters now. Do we know if the Phobos Lt or Captain has the right weapon type to use any of them?

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
You may be right...I just want to use my infiltrators! :(

Yeah, me too. I really don't think they need the aura though. They have dinky bolters, they don't do much damage anyway. Their main job is to stop deep strikers and contest objectives.

There's some pretty nice relic bolters now. Do we know if the Phobos Lt or Captain has the right weapon type to use any of them?

No they don't, at least not for the main codex ones. I'm not sure about supplements. Meanwhile there are two relic bolters normal Primaris Captain and Lieutenant can take and of course they can have melee weapons. Unfortunately the Phobos guys are stuck with crap gear. Granted, the bolter the Captain has is not terrible, in melee he would die of embarrassment though.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
which is proably worth it for a squad or two.

I don't know why they didn't just make it another special Marine like the Helix Adept. But it looks more like it is a squad upgrade rather than an upgrade to a Marine.

so does that mean you can have it with a helix adept?

No. The datasheet prevents it. I still don't understand, that since the Comms Array is a squad upgrade, what happens to it when you combat squad the unit.

 Crimson wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
You may be right...I just want to use my infiltrators! :(

Yeah, me too. I really don't think they need the aura though. They have dinky bolters, they don't do much damage anyway. Their main job is to stop deep strikers and contest objectives.

There's some pretty nice relic bolters now. Do we know if the Phobos Lt or Captain has the right weapon type to use any of them?

No they don't, at least not for the main codex ones. I'm not sure about supplements. Meanwhile there are two relic bolters normal Primaris Captain and Lieutenant can take and of course they can have melee weapons. Unfortunately the Phobos guys are stuck with crap gear. Granted, the bolter the Captain has is not terrible, in melee he would die of embarrassment though.

And its confirmed that the wargear of the phobos HQs hasn't changed in the codex either? That's a real shame if so. I had assumed that their lack of weapons was for internal balance in Shadowspear and they'd get proper weapons on a full release.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
No. The datasheet prevents it. I still don't understand, that since the Comms Array is a squad upgrade, what happens to it when you combat squad the unit.

It's an item you give to one guy. If you combat squad then it affects the half you put that guy in. Why the comms guy and the medic can't get along I don't know. Seems silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

And its confirmed that the wargear of the phobos HQs hasn't changed in the codex either? That's a real shame if so. I had assumed that their lack of weapons was for internal balance in Shadowspear and they'd get proper weapons on a full release.

No new gear, except the lieutenant can exchange all his gear for Reiver knife, pistol and mask. And that includes giving up the grav chute. Yes, he is a melee character without a proper melee weapon that cannot deepstrike along with the Reivers. He is completely and utterly pointless.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
No. The datasheet prevents it. I still don't understand, that since the Comms Array is a squad upgrade, what happens to it when you combat squad the unit.

It's an item you give to one guy. If you combat squad then it affects the half you put that guy in. Why the comms guy and the medic can't get along I don't know. Seems silly.

I don't understand why one is a separate model type, but the other isn't. It seems like they could have just had it be you can give one model a Comms Array or a Reductor.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
No. The datasheet prevents it. I still don't understand, that since the Comms Array is a squad upgrade, what happens to it when you combat squad the unit.

It's an item you give to one guy. If you combat squad then it affects the half you put that guy in. Why the comms guy and the medic can't get along I don't know. Seems silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

And its confirmed that the wargear of the phobos HQs hasn't changed in the codex either? That's a real shame if so. I had assumed that their lack of weapons was for internal balance in Shadowspear and they'd get proper weapons on a full release.

No new gear, except the lieutenant can exchange all his gear for Reiver knife, pistol and mask. And that includes giving up the grav chute. Yes, he is a melee character without a proper melee weapon that cannot deepstrike along with the Reivers. He is completely and utterly pointless.

Wait for Ishy or someone else to come in and defend the Reiver Lt hahahaha

I.m definitely gonna use my Minotaurs as a White Scars successor. The tables seem okay for Traits and Powers and the Strats seen solid. Not sure what Trait to give Asterion yet, but his reroll charges goes well with the trait.

the Phobos Leuienant can if he's Ultramarine take the soldier's Blade IIRC. if thats the case he actually becomes good.

the reiver varient though is absolutely slowed I agree.

The soldier’s blade replaces a combat knife - which is what reivers carry. I think the reiver version might be the guy who has one, and maybe the Phobos captain, rather than the Phobos lieutenant - not sure. In any case it’s Smurf-only.

Actually if you’re going to have a lieutenant to stand around giving a reroll 1s aura then a reiver isn’t a terrible choice. As a Phobos character, he gives you access to the Phobos warlord traits (possibly via a strat most of the time) including the game-changingly-good one that lets you reposition units. The cost is similar to the generic guy and his mask and grenades do have an effect. You can still give him stuff like the relic of gathalmor(sp?) if you want. I can potentially see myself sticking a reiver to a 40mm base to represent one of these guys, if using stuff like infiltrators or the new guys.

You could take the guy with the grav chute and gun but you’d have to pay 2 points and you lose the reiver toys. His shooting is better but nothing to write home about.

It remains spectacularly stupid that the two Phobos lieutenants have their backpacks the wrong way round relative to the troops they’re supposed to be like, but whatever. GW. have apparently decided to chain themselves to exact model representation, in an attempt to kill creativity and give us all armies made up of exactly the same guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way I don’t think the Phobos librarian can do the warp time null zone thing any more. The book relic has been changed and now gives one extra spell from an existing discipline instead - not automatically the librarius discipline.

Ultramarines supplement has a Strat I think that lets you reposition units, so you don't need a Warlord trait for that.

sounds like the UM suppplement has a rediculasly flexable tactical toolkit then