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In a sample game I took out my pred in my old favorite auto/las config. The new pred autocannon is very nice. I think it’s a wash against the LCs. More shots, less AP, solid damage. Obviously better against softer targets

LC sponsons are a bit on the pricy side. Still good to have, but I might reconsider and go with the HBs nest time to see how they do.

I honestly thing there isn’t a wrong answer on preds these days.

I need to paint up more SBs on tank hatches. Seems criminal not to just plaster them everywhere for 2 points each.

 Nevelon wrote:
I need to paint up more SBs on tank hatches. Seems criminal not to just plaster them everywhere for 2 points each.

Agreed. But I still won't put them on my razorbacks. It looks like the damn weapons are shooting into them on those. As someone who's really into the aesthetics of the game.. I just, can't.

Could always mount it on the turret since we measure ranges from the hull now.

well you've got me thinking now... might see how it looks

I do think the secret to the most success is to run an imperium army and not a pure SM army, if what you want is pure cutting edge winning potential.

Militarum can provide both chaff and solid armor. Scions are probably the best drop troops in the game now that drop pods are, well, bad. And Marines have more reliable ranged killing.

There's even a few oddball units like Crusaders with storm shields for pure staying power on a budget.

I suspect mixed lists like this will be top tier.

Also Guilliman really facilitates this, and I love running guilliman

stratigo wrote:
I do think the secret to the most success is to run an imperium army and not a pure SM army, if what you want is pure cutting edge winning potential.

Militarum can provide both chaff and solid armor. Scions are probably the best drop troops in the game now that drop pods are, well, bad. And Marines have more reliable ranged killing.

There's even a few oddball units like Crusaders with storm shields for pure staying power on a budget.

I suspect mixed lists like this will be top tier.

Also Guilliman really facilitates this, and I love running guilliman

I wouldnt want to go full on cheese mode but i have to ask how cheap are scion drops?

would be interesting dropping in with a unit of assault or vanguard behind them as a bubble wrap protection.

Any thoughts on Vanguard vets? Stormshields look pretty good and Thunderhammers, despite being the same price as Powerfists, are basically better fists. Could do the good ol' three with shields and two with two claws combo. Might give the Sarge a Relic blade as well if I get them.

 Desubot wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I do think the secret to the most success is to run an imperium army and not a pure SM army, if what you want is pure cutting edge winning potential.

Militarum can provide both chaff and solid armor. Scions are probably the best drop troops in the game now that drop pods are, well, bad. And Marines have more reliable ranged killing.

There's even a few oddball units like Crusaders with storm shields for pure staying power on a budget.

I suspect mixed lists like this will be top tier.

Also Guilliman really facilitates this, and I love running guilliman

I wouldnt want to go full on cheese mode but i have to ask how cheap are scion drops?

would be interesting dropping in with a unit of assault or vanguard behind them as a bubble wrap protection.

They are a minimum of 10 points per dude, with the option to take 2 plasma guns every 5. They are strictly a more cost effective unit than sternguard for dropping behind enemy lines since they don't pay a a drop pod tax. Mixing them with jump troops and maybe a termite squad is the best way to set up a drop focused armies, remembering that half your units need to set up first turn

How are players feeling about classic dreads with an assault cannon, fist, and heavy flamer? Boosted AC shots helps and a great support to walk alongside other vehicles like razorbacks. Good all around for 148 points.

 buddha wrote:
How are players feeling about classic dreads with an assault cannon, fist, and heavy flamer? Boosted AC shots helps and a great support to walk alongside other vehicles like razorbacks. Good all around for 148 points.

Nothing stops the -1 hit mod for heavy though so not sure.

i think it might be an interesting twin las platform who isnt a push over in CC if some one drops in from behind. even drop plasma might have some trouble cracking the beast.

Has anyone tried out a more mech focused list? Something like 4 razorbacks with ass cannons and and 2 predators with las cannons. Then support with storm talons dreads and msu

A few quick thoughts, not having played yet:

-Predators are so overpriced that it seems like there might be a typo somewhere. The Predator is only 1 Wound more resilient than a Razorback and can't transport anyone, but it costs almost 40 points more! I seriously think there's an error and this is meant to be toughness 8 or something - the chassis inefficiency is just too high otherwise, and it doesn't make sense compared to units that were similarly armored in previous editions.

-Whirlwinds and Thunderfire Cannons stack up poorly to IG artillery. Luckily, we can just take IG artillery now.

-The Fast Attack slot looks relatively weak.

-Razorbacks are very efficient, especially with upgraded turrets. The twin assault cannon and twin lascannon turrets look especially cool - the classic las-plas configuration suffers somewhat from blowing up the entire tank with Gets Hot, but can always keep the gun on the standard setting to avoid the risk.

-Storm bolters are very cheap upgrades that go great on vehicles and on characters who aren't already using that weapon space for something else.

-Captains look quite strong, both for their stats and for their aura buffs. Chaplains are even better if you have a melee-focused army.

 Kingsley wrote:
-Predators are so overpriced that it seems like there might be a typo somewhere. The Predator is only 1 Wound more resilient than a Razorback and can't transport anyone, but it costs almost 40 points more! I seriously think there's an error and this is meant to be toughness 8 or something - the chassis inefficiency is just too high otherwise, and it doesn't make sense compared to units that were similarly armored in previous editions.

-Whirlwinds and Thunderfire Cannons stack up poorly to IG artillery. Luckily, we can just take IG artillery now.

I was thinking the same thing about Predators. Can get 2 Lascannon Razorbacks for almost the same cost as a single Predator with 4 Lascannons, and have basically twice the wounds.

In regards to taking IG units, it seems to me when reading this rule like you DON'T get access to CP's if you do that as Battalion, Patrol, etc require all units to be from the same faction.

 benlac wrote:

In regards to taking IG units, it seems to me when reading this rule like you DON'T get access to CP's if you do that as Battalion, Patrol, etc require all units to be from the same faction.

They're from the same faction, Imperium.

Sorry if its been answered before, but what book do we use for Primaris?

The index book the starter comes to 969 in points the book in the box game comes to 938. Every profile is different in points...

 benlac wrote:


In regards to taking IG units, it seems to me when reading this rule like you DON'T get access to CP's if you do that as Battalion, Patrol, etc require all units to be from the same faction.

But... it specifically says that you do. In that caption you quoted.

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 benlac wrote:


In regards to taking IG units, it seems to me when reading this rule like you DON'T get access to CP's if you do that as Battalion, Patrol, etc require all units to be from the same faction.

But... it specifically says that you do. In that caption you quoted.

Yeah I misread that. Didn't realize ALL the SM's had 'Imperium' as a keyword. Thought they had "Adepts Astartes'. Sorry


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In which case, maybe mixed armies will be pretty popular among those who don't bother with fluff too much

 benlac wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
-Predators are so overpriced that it seems like there might be a typo somewhere. The Predator is only 1 Wound more resilient than a Razorback and can't transport anyone, but it costs almost 40 points more! I seriously think there's an error and this is meant to be toughness 8 or something - the chassis inefficiency is just too high otherwise, and it doesn't make sense compared to units that were similarly armored in previous editions.

-Whirlwinds and Thunderfire Cannons stack up poorly to IG artillery. Luckily, we can just take IG artillery now.

I was thinking the same thing about Predators. Can get 2 Lascannon Razorbacks for almost the same cost as a single Predator with 4 Lascannons, and have basically twice the wounds.

In regards to taking IG units, it seems to me when reading this rule like you DON'T get access to CP's if you do that as Battalion, Patrol, etc require all units to be from the same faction.

You end up paying for it with infantry

not that they are all bad but its not really the same as a single slot.

"In which case, maybe mixed armies will be pretty popular among those who don't bother with fluff too much"

i bet the new beardy hotness tourny list will end up being a lot of imperium cherry pickers.

 Desubot wrote:

"In which case, maybe mixed armies will be pretty popular among those who don't bother with fluff too much"

i bet the new beardy hotness tourny list will end up being a lot of imperium cherry pickers.

Eh, there are a lot of ways to make perfectly fluffy Imperial alliance armies, Inquisitorial task force, Rogue Trader's army, a crusade, Ultramar army, etc.

I really love that the army composition is this free, not because of cheese, but because I can buy and paint any imperial units I happen to like and still use them in a game.

 Crimson wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

"In which case, maybe mixed armies will be pretty popular among those who don't bother with fluff too much"

i bet the new beardy hotness tourny list will end up being a lot of imperium cherry pickers.

Eh, there are a lot of ways to make perfectly fluffy Imperial alliance armies, Inquisitorial task force, Rogue Trader's army, a crusade, Ultramar army, etc.

I really love that the army composition is this free, not because of cheese, but because I can buy and paint any imperial units I happen to like and still use them in a game.

Oh no thats not what i meant about that.

There is a difference between cherry picking and making a mixed fluff list. then again we dont know what command options we are going to miss out on by mixing so we need to wait and see

Basilisk and Wyvern seem like good heavy support additions to a SM list. only around 100 points for each. only crappy thing is when they're damaged their BS is awful.

Conscript bubble wrap is probably the best thing about combining the lists. So much cheaper than Scout™ Brand bubble wrap, and now with added Commissar!

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Conscript bubble wrap is probably the best thing about combining the lists. So much cheaper than Scout™ Brand bubble wrap, and now with added Commissar!

Yeah, Conscripts are silly cheap.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Conscript bubble wrap is probably the best thing about combining the lists. So much cheaper than Scout™ Brand bubble wrap, and now with added Commissar!

Yeah, Conscripts are silly cheap.

Heavy Weapon Squads, Scions, and Taurox Primes are also good, and fit nicely into the WAAC list of your choosing. I need to run the math on the Gatling TP vs twin AC Razor just to see where that's at. Also, Assassins. Lots of assassins. I was thinking about throwing out two Culexus out against a Smite-fest list and had a chuckle thinking about all the associated shenanigans.

I'd like to say here, just for the record, that I've wanted to build a Marine/Guard list for years. I am not, and never have been, a member of the 8th Ed beardy-bandwagon party.

Apropos of nothing in particular, if it were possible to buy a t-shirt that said WAAC FTW, would anyone else be tempted to buy one and actually, you know, wear it in public?

So I got my first game of 8th in last night against AdMech. I took a demi-company (in terms of units since that formation is gone) plus some termies and a Libby. Cataphractii Terminators are just nasty now, put might of heroes on them and they will shred nearly anything short of a greater demon. Tactical Marines feel a bit better now, they didn't do anything spectacular, but the heavy weapon changes plus split fire and being able to charge after shooting makes them feel like the jack-of-all trades that they are. Captains granting re-rolls to Devastators is pretty neat. My Assault Marines got shot down turn one due to bad rolls so I can't attest to them.

 War Kitten wrote:
So I got my first game of 8th in last night against AdMech. I took a demi-company (in terms of units since that formation is gone) plus some termies and a Libby. Cataphractii Terminators are just nasty now, put might of heroes on them and they will shred nearly anything short of a greater demon. Tactical Marines feel a bit better now, they didn't do anything spectacular, but the heavy weapon changes plus split fire and being able to charge after shooting makes them feel like the jack-of-all trades that they are. Captains granting re-rolls to Devastators is pretty neat. My Assault Marines got shot down turn one due to bad rolls so I can't attest to them.

Might of Heroes on "them" of one of them? Since it only targets a single model.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Conscript bubble wrap is probably the best thing about combining the lists. So much cheaper than Scout™ Brand bubble wrap, and now with added Commissar!

Yeah, Conscripts are silly cheap.

Heavy Weapon Squads, Scions, and Taurox Primes are also good, and fit nicely into the WAAC list of your choosing. I need to run the math on the Gatling TP vs twin AC Razor just to see where that's at. Also, Assassins. Lots of assassins. I was thinking about throwing out two Culexus out against a Smite-fest list and had a chuckle thinking about all the associated shenanigans.

I'd like to say here, just for the record, that I've wanted to build a Marine/Guard list for years. I am not, and never have been, a member of the 8th Ed beardy-bandwagon party.

Apropos of nothing in particular, if it were possible to buy a t-shirt that said WAAC FTW, would anyone else be tempted to buy one and actually, you know, wear it in public?

I was looking at inquisition acolytes with Stormbolters. They're only BS 4+ with a 5+ save, but they have 3 W and you can put stormbolters on every one of them for 10 total points. (Other specials too, but those are more expensive and defeat the whole purpose of cheap wounds/dakka.)

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

Wait, each Chainsword gets 2 attacks and vets have 2 with the sgt at 3 attacks, so a unit of 5 has 27 attacks right?

 Gendo wrote:

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

Wait, each Chainsword gets 2 attacks and vets have 2 with the sgt at 3 attacks, so a unit of 5 has 27 attacks right?

4(2x2) + (2x3) = 21 Attacks.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Gendo wrote:

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

Wait, each Chainsword gets 2 attacks and vets have 2 with the sgt at 3 attacks, so a unit of 5 has 27 attacks right?

4(2x2) + (2x3) = 21 Attacks.

Get it, the bonus attack it's over the model stats not the weapon itself right?

For my purposes Company Vets are even better, put them in a LRC with a Character and they can soak up the wounds, found my new Crusaders