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Mandragola wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 JJ wrote:

Malifice wrote:


Gong from Str 4 to 5 isnt that huge a deal, and would rarely come into play. Strength 4, 6 and 8 (and 9) is where the real money is.

Seems like a reasonably big deal to me. Wounding T4 (very common) on 3+ instead of 4s, wounding T8 on 5s instead of 6s (also very common).

This^.

Going from S4 to S5 is pretty damn huge.
You wouldn't even need anti-tank, since massed IF bolterfire @S5 would punch trough heavy armour (T8) simply by weight of attacks.

Nope.

Imagine taking 12 wounds off a Leman Russ. T8 and 3+ save. 1/9 hits is a wound (1/6 for intercessors). Hitting on a 3+ you'd need 162 bolter shots to achieve that, or 108 from intercessors. Imagine trying to take down a storm raven or a land raider.

You might do the occasional wound, but it's not enough on its own - for the same reason people don't just use assault cannons now. Guns that do multiple wounds, and wound easily with significant AP, are required.

That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is; You just doubled the effectiveness of bolters against a Lemun Russ/T8, and by about 33% against T4. Not to the point you are trying to go out and hunt down Leman Russes with pure bolters, but it's a sizable jump in damage output.

That's a hell of a chapter tactic.

Guys are Ravenguard Stormravens now getting a -2 to be hit w/ their chapter tactics? This is insane if so.

 Quickjager wrote:
Guys are Ravenguard Stormravens now getting a -2 to be hit w/ their chapter tactics? This is insane if so.

Ah right seen the new post.............oh dear.

I believe they are saying the only vehicles that get it are dreadnaughts. So not for fliers, transports etc.

 Quickjager wrote:
Guys are Ravenguard Stormravens now getting a -2 to be hit w/ their chapter tactics? This is insane if so.

No. Stormravens do not get CT. Only infantry and dreadnoughts do.

That chapter tactic seems pretty damn strong, and I thought the Ultras got a really good deal.

Really exploitable when you start spamming infantry. Get some Tac marines or Primaris in cover and they're going to become extremely hard to shift.

 Leth wrote:
Honestly if they do something for salamanders with flamers and meltas again...holy crap that is scary.

Also has anyone been running lieutenants? I think their aura is one of the best since re-roll hits is pretty easy to come by but re-roll wounds....that is where the money is at.

Iv run a dumpster list (grabbed whatever i had that was painted or built) with the full dark imperium box, 3 vindicators and 2 preds in a double spear head formation.

it worked out ok.

didnt help that i was too clumped up when a vindicator was first turn exploded followed by 13 mortal wounds from an explosion across like 7 units.

They made mention of Shrike being a Chapter Master so he'll get the boosted stats at least.

So we got 2 pretty cool Chapter Tactics so far. Can't wait to see tomorrow's preview.

 Sonminiser wrote:
Has most cost efficient heavy weapons been discussed? So far I am really liking lascannons for vehicle hunting and missile launchers for their adaptability. Has anyone had any success with Grav-cannons? I found I haven't liked regular grav guns.

Drop Pods and Bikes for Grav Guns, in my 8th edition experience so far. You want to get them into position quick to mitigate their range drawback. But there are some squads that can get busted apart by Podding in Grav-Cannon devastators...

 Sonminiser wrote:
Has most cost efficient heavy weapons been discussed? So far I am really liking lascannons for vehicle hunting and missile launchers for their adaptability. Has anyone had any success with Grav-cannons? I found I haven't liked regular grav guns.

Had more luck with Meltas than Lascannons probably because of the AP-4 and same D6 Damage, long distance shooting the Lascannons and Autocannons are good if standing still.

My favourite platform so far is the Venerable Dreadnought with BS2+ with 2 Twin Autocannons 8 shots at S7 AP-1 and D2, almost ditching my Las Predator for 2 Dreadnoughts with Lascannon and Autocannon each. BS2+ it's huge.

Used Gravs but they are hard to play in rapid fire range the way i'm set up and not worth it imo.

 Gendo wrote:

 Sonminiser wrote:
Has most cost efficient heavy weapons been discussed? So far I am really liking lascannons for vehicle hunting and missile launchers for their adaptability. Has anyone had any success with Grav-cannons? I found I haven't liked regular grav guns.

Had more luck with Meltas than Lascannons probably because of the AP-4 and same D6 Damage, long distance shooting the Lascannons and Autocannons are good if standing still.

My favourite platform so far is the Venerable Dreadnought with BS2+ with 2 Twin Autocannons 8 shots at S7 AP-1 and D2, almost ditching my Las Predator for 2 Dreadnoughts with Lascannon and Autocannon each. BS2+ it's huge.

Used Gravs but they are hard to play in rapid fire range the way i'm set up and not worth it imo.

Definitely want to give rifledreads a shot again. so far lascannons are still the work horse.

but managed to drop a 2 grav 2 mm dev squad in a pod and nearlly wiped out a full bike squad and a nice chuck of a storm raven.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gendo wrote:

 Sonminiser wrote:
Has most cost efficient heavy weapons been discussed? So far I am really liking lascannons for vehicle hunting and missile launchers for their adaptability. Has anyone had any success with Grav-cannons? I found I haven't liked regular grav guns.

Had more luck with Meltas than Lascannons probably because of the AP-4 and same D6 Damage, long distance shooting the Lascannons and Autocannons are good if standing still.

My favourite platform so far is the Venerable Dreadnought with BS2+ with 2 Twin Autocannons 8 shots at S7 AP-1 and D2, almost ditching my Las Predator for 2 Dreadnoughts with Lascannon and Autocannon each. BS2+ it's huge.

Used Gravs but they are hard to play in rapid fire range the way i'm set up and not worth it imo.

Definitely want to give rifledreads a shot again. so far lascannons are still the work horse.

but managed to drop a 2 grav 2 mm dev squad in a pod and nearlly wiped out a full bike squad and a nice chuck of a storm raven.

Due to bad dice rolls lately I rather rely on the Dreadnought , still using Predator as I don't have an alternative atm.

Love the Meltas near Helbrecht who has one himself and the MM on LRC, rerolling failed hits Melta drop also did decent but was on a suicide mission and Deathwind Launcher always rolling 1 Hit roll...

Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

Well, the RG CT will really help my dreads out, and the warlord trait (no overwatch) combined with the relic (reroll charges) means my warlord is now a deepstriking monster.

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

You can just pay 3cp to turn a captain into a chapter master now, i's a new marines stratagem

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

They do make a difference, never had a Chapter Master model?

Think Helbrecht is not such a huge deal, all BT Characters buff Combat and I don't see anyone taking him on a pure shooty squad at 170pts not benefiting from S+1, so sure my units around him are quite good but then I've got Chainswords...

GAdvance wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

You can just pay 3cp to turn a captain into a chapter master now, i's a new marines stratagem

Yeah a heard about that. still cheesed though. you are putting your self at a major disadvantage vs people that are "privileged" to have a named chapter master.

its a minor quip though. im sure everyone will get cool things once the codex drops.

 Gendo wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

They do make a difference, never had a Chapter Master model?

Think Helbrecht is not such a huge deal, all BT Characters buff Combat and I don't see anyone taking him on a pure shooty squad at 170pts not benefiting from S+1, so sure my units around him are quite good but then I've got Chainswords...

Its all rerolls to hits not just shooting so he greatly benefits CC based units sitting around with a few melta/combi melta guns.

I have like 14 different chapter master/ captain models rolling around . imperial fists just dont have access to it outside of this new unreleased stratigem.

 Desubot wrote:

GAdvance wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

You can just pay 3cp to turn a captain into a chapter master now, i's a new marines stratagem

Yeah a heard about that. still cheesed though. you are putting your self at a major disadvantage vs people that are "privileged" to have a named chapter master.

its a minor quip though. im sure everyone will get cool things once the codex drops.

 Gendo wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

They do make a difference, never had a Chapter Master model?

Think Helbrecht is not such a huge deal, all BT Characters buff Combat and I don't see anyone taking him on a pure shooty squad at 170pts not benefiting from S+1, so sure my units around him are quite good but then I've got Chainswords...

Its all rerolls to hits not just shooting so he greatly benefits CC based units sitting around with a few melta/combi melta guns.

I have like 14 different chapter master/ captain models rolling around . imperial fists just dont have access to it outside of this new unreleased stratigem.

Looking at the Index you're right, everyone has a Master, any fluff reason why you shouldn't? I'm sure you'll get cool stuff in the new Codex, For Dorn!

 Gendo wrote:


Looking at the Index you're right, everyone has a Master, any fluff reason why you shouldn't? I'm sure you'll get cool stuff in the new Codex, For Dorn!

Edit: wow i really did read that wrong :X

the only people that get a Chapter masters (diffrence of rerolling 1s and rerolling all to hits) is Smurfs, Black templar, Crimson fists, White scars, and raven guard. Imperial fists gets lysander the captain, and sally gets vulken a captain. Iron hands get shafted.

 Desubot wrote:

GAdvance wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

You can just pay 3cp to turn a captain into a chapter master now, i's a new marines stratagem

Yeah a heard about that. still cheesed though. you are putting your self at a major disadvantage vs people that are "privileged" to have a named chapter master.

its a minor quip though. im sure everyone will get cool things once the codex drops.

Whilst i do have that privilege i also have to pay over 200 points for my chapter master, though i'll admit he's damn well worth it

 Desubot wrote:
Im honestly still cheesed that black templars and a bunch of other marines get chapter masters while imp fists gets shafted. (im a bad roller i could REALLY use those rerolls :X)

I'm REALLY hoping that Vorn Hagen is lurking in the codex and will be a nice little surprise for Fists players. From browsing the forums recently it seems like one of the more popular chapters, but we're currently stuck with just the one badass!

Man the RG chapter tactics are cool. I foresee a devastator / dakka Dread firebase with infiltrating and deep striking forward elements army in my future.

They also make footslogging Primaris and Cent units much more durable / usable I think.

jcd386 wrote:
Man the RG chapter tactics are cool. I foresee a devastator / dakka Dread firebase with infiltrating and deep striking forward elements army in my future.

They also make footslogging Primaris and Cent units much more durable / usable I think.

Man can you imagine like a 6man centurion squad with all the heavy bolters and hurricane bolters you can eat popping up 9" away just deleting something. or even discount assault marines with all the fixins and no jump packs poping up 9" for a charge.

 Desubot wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Man the RG chapter tactics are cool. I foresee a devastator / dakka Dread firebase with infiltrating and deep striking forward elements army in my future.

They also make footslogging Primaris and Cent units much more durable / usable I think.

Man can you imagine like a 6man centurion squad with all the heavy bolters and hurricane bolters you can eat popping up 9" away just deleting something. or even discount assault marines with all the fixins and no jump packs poping up 9" for a charge.

It seems very good for sure, especially if it's before the game starts, meaning they can move and assault on the first turn, but is limited by CP which I think is a great call from a game design point of view.

Also the more units you are taking to take advantage of the CT, presumably without trandports, the less likely you are to get first turn, which is interesting.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gendo wrote:


Looking at the Index you're right, everyone has a Master, any fluff reason why you shouldn't? I'm sure you'll get cool stuff in the new Codex, For Dorn!

Edit: wow i really did read that wrong :X

the only people that get a Chapter masters (diffrence of rerolling 1s and rerolling all to hits) is Smurfs, Black templar, Crimson fists, White scars, and raven guard. Imperial fists gets lysander the captain, and sally gets vulken a captain. Iron hands get shafted.

Um White Scars? Did Khan get a promotion with Shrike?

Yesterday I played my first game using a squad of intercessors. I was quite impressed by them. For a 100 point troop unit, they were able to do a lot.

The thing is that, while they are vulnerable to stuff that does multiple damage, people will tend to have to fire that at bigger targets. Getting rid of intercessors with small-arms fire is really quite difficult, especially if they’re in cover.

Meanwhile, they have pretty decent firepower in reply. The -1 ap feels very good when fighting other people’s troops. And they are actually better in cc than I expected, because they now hit everything on a 3+.

I’m not saying that they’re out of this world amazing, but they are a solid troop choice – clearly the best one available to codex marines, in my opinion.

The other unit that’s performing consistently very well is my contemptor. It makes a huge difference that it moves 9” and hits on a 2+. And its base strength of 7 means it tends to wound most enemy dreadnoughts on a 2+ as well. That’s a huge improvement over a standard dread that hits and wounds on a 3+, and only moves 6”. That said, the kheres assault cannon hasn’t really done anything so far – which his just all the more reason to get stuck into cc!

I also ran a primaris captain and librarian. The captain did kind of what you'd expect - chopping things up and handing out a useful buff when I remembered it. The librarian didn't achieve a lot. He was shut down quite often by Eldar psykers and the powers he had didn't really seem all that great. He got to cut up some guardians with his sword, but I felt like a lieutenant might have achieved more.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Gendo wrote:


Looking at the Index you're right, everyone has a Master, any fluff reason why you shouldn't? I'm sure you'll get cool stuff in the new Codex, For Dorn!

Edit: wow i really did read that wrong :X

the only people that get a Chapter masters (diffrence of rerolling 1s and rerolling all to hits) is Smurfs, Black templar, Crimson fists, White scars, and raven guard. Imperial fists gets lysander the captain, and sally gets vulken a captain. Iron hands get shafted.

Um White Scars? Did Khan get a promotion with Shrike?

The Chapter Masters in Index 1 are :

Marneus Calgar, Ultras
Pedro Kantor, Crimson Fists
Helbrecht, Black Templars
Kayvaan Shrike, Raven Guard
Gabriel Seth, Flesh Tearers
Dante, Blood Angels
Azeal, Dark Angels
Logan Grimnar, Wolves
Draigo, Grey Knights

No Chapter Master for the 1st Founding Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Iron Hands or White Scars.

People often confuse Ko'sarro Khan, Captain Lysander, and Vulkan He'stan for being the Chapter Masters of their respective Chapters, but they are just Captains, or in Vulkan's case, just a very important individual within the Salamanders.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gendo wrote:


Looking at the Index you're right, everyone has a Master, any fluff reason why you shouldn't? I'm sure you'll get cool stuff in the new Codex, For Dorn!

Edit: wow i really did read that wrong :X

the only people that get a Chapter masters (diffrence of rerolling 1s and rerolling all to hits) is Smurfs, Black templar, Crimson fists, White scars, and raven guard. Imperial fists gets lysander the captain, and sally gets vulken a captain. Iron hands get shafted.

Here mate, found Tactics leaked on my gaming group on FB, can't confirm:

Ultras: +1Ld, can fall back and still shoot at -1 to hit
RG: -1 to hit them at 12" or more away
WS: Can fall back and charge
IF: All shooting is ignore cover. Rerolling to wound against keyword Buildings
IH: ignore wounds on a roll of a 6
BT: rerolling failed charges
SAL: every unit can reroll one failed hit AND wound dice every time it shoots or fights

 Gendo wrote:

Here mate, found Tactics leaked on my gaming group on FB, can't confirm:

Ultras: +1Ld, can fall back and still shoot at -1 to hit
RG: -1 to hit them at 12" or more away
WS: Can fall back and charge
IF: All shooting is ignore cover. Rerolling to wound against keyword Buildings
IH: ignore wounds on a roll of a 6
BT: rerolling failed charges
SAL: every unit can reroll one failed hit AND wound dice every time it shoots or fights

Was on them all morning

IF...... eh its practical. not very flashy. and while fluffy building destruction is kinda pointless as no one plays them :/

im jelly of my angry templar brethren.