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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think Imperial fists will be very good IF they flesh out the cover rules or make it slightly easier to get (like giving it back for having intervening models). However right now, outside of a few bubble aura buffs, cover is just not that common for a unit to have.

Until there are hardcoded rules in regard to the amount of cover that needs to be on the battlefield, there is nothing that will make their tactics anything but situational. And their bonus against buildings is less than worthless. No one takes buildings. Like at all. I have watched dozens of battle reports and watched/played in dozens of games, and never once has someone taken a building.

Im seriously questioning my decision to paint my Priamris Crimson Fists.

It was a tossup between them and the Raven Guard, and I went the former because Im better at painting blue.

I have a horrible feeling that Im going to have to learn how to paint black. I really rate those RG tactics, and have a total soft spot for Beakies (looking at you Forge World).

Those Mor Dethyn RG sniper minis (counts as: Scouts) camped 30" away sniping characters, while in cover and getting -1 to be hit... Rifle dreads plinking at long range luring units forward to get within 12" (and then exposing rear units to DS vangaurd assault troops)...

The Crimson Fist Relic and Warlord trait better be worth it seeing as we dont get any unique Strategems.

Malifice wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think Imperial fists will be very good IF they flesh out the cover rules or make it slightly easier to get (like giving it back for having intervening models). However right now, outside of a few bubble aura buffs, cover is just not that common for a unit to have.

Until there are hardcoded rules in regard to the amount of cover that needs to be on the battlefield, there is nothing that will make their tactics anything but situational. And their bonus against buildings is less than worthless. No one takes buildings. Like at all. I have watched dozens of battle reports and watched/played in dozens of games, and never once has someone taken a building.

Im seriously questioning my decision to paint my Priamris Crimson Fists.

It was a tossup between them and the Raven Guard, and I went the former because Im better at painting blue.

I have a horrible feeling that Im going to have to learn how to paint black. I really rate those RG tactics, and have a total soft spot for Beakies (looking at you Forge World).

Those Mor Dethyn RG sniper minis (counts as: Scouts) camped 30" away sniping characters, while in cover and getting -1 to be hit... Rifle dreads plinking at long range luring units forward to get within 12" (and then exposing rear units to DS vangaurd assault troops)...

The Crimson Fist Relic and Warlord trait better be worth it seeing as we dont get any unique Strategems.

The grass is always greener somewhere, do you play the game to have fun or band wagon to win at all cost? If you don't like the RG tactics why bother going down that road. Not to mention, no one has the Codex yet and allot can change once everything is revealed.

Gibs55 wrote:
The grass is always greener somewhere, do you play the game to have fun or band wagon to win at all cost?

Bit of both. A competitive game, in good spirits, hopefully with a win (but that's secondary to a good game).

If you don't like the RG tactics why bother going down that road. Not to mention, no one has the Codex yet and allot can change once everything is revealed.

I do like RG tactics. A lot. It encourages gameplay due to a combination of long range shooting gettin -1 to be hit in return (luring your enemies closer) and then DSing some assault guys in to their rear echelon after they get sucked up the board.

You can keep opponents guessing: You might come to the table with a pretty nasty long range gun-line (that is -1 to hit), or you can (using the Chapter strategem) deep strike a lot of units nice and close for an alpha strike, or you could do a bit of both (long range gun line to draw him into 12" range to avoid the -1) followed by being flanked by a deep striking unit and a surprise assault.

All the IF CT does is make cover irrelevant. Doesnt really encourage any particular tactics or gameplay.

We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Crimson fists cant use them.

We get our own Warlord trait (Pedro Kantor awaits with baited breath) and our own unique Relic (The Oath of Rynn?).

Unlike the other chapters, we dont get any unique strategems.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Probably going to be something stupid like reroll to hit against buikdings. I don't have high hopes. GW thought the Buildings bonus was worth putting on paper, so...

Malifice wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Crimson fists cant use them.

We get our own Warlord trait (Pedro Kantor awaits with baited breath) and our own unique Relic (The Oath of Rynn?).

Unlike the other chapters, we dont get any unique strategems.

It'll probably be like last edition where you just use Imperial Fists tactics and therefore Strategems.

Malifice wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Crimson fists cant use them.

We get our own Warlord trait (Pedro Kantor awaits with baited breath) and our own unique Relic (The Oath of Rynn?).

Unlike the other chapters, we dont get any unique strategems.

We don't know that at all. We know that CF get a unique Relic and Warlord Trait instead of the Imperial Fists relic and trait. There has been nothing that says they don't get the IF Strategems.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Malifice wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Crimson fists cant use them.

We get our own Warlord trait (Pedro Kantor awaits with baited breath) and our own unique Relic (The Oath of Rynn?).

Unlike the other chapters, we dont get any unique strategems.

We don't know that at all. We know that CF get a unique Relic and Warlord Trait instead of the Imperial Fists relic and trait. There has been nothing that says they don't get the IF Strategems.

Why would they?

That means our brother chapter (also 2nd founding, also IF successor) the Black Templars get access to their own, and that of the IF's.

Each chapter gets a unique strategem (all the 1st founding chapters plus Black Templars).

All those chapters also get unique warlord traits and relics (including the CF).

Maybe Crimson Fists can use IF Strategems. But I doubt it.

It looks like we just get the Relic, Warlord trait, and possibly IF Chapter tactics, and generic strategems.

A 1st founding chapter gets the Relic, Strategem, Chapter tactics, Warlord trait AND (almost certainly) a Primarch and a shiny new specialised codex down the line.

You won't know any of that for certain until tomorrow, so stop spewing gak about it for now.

Re-rolling charge ranges is okay, as far as CT's go, but is there even a point? I mean, getting into combat is nice but what do marines have that can pack a punch in melee?

Like, if you're going up against another dedicated assault army like Khorne or Orks, are Crusader squads really going to cut it?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Re-rolling charge ranges is okay, as far as CT's go, but is there even a point? I mean, getting into combat is nice but what do marines have that can pack a punch in melee?

Like, if you're going up against another dedicated assault army like Khorne or Orks, are Crusader squads really going to cut it?

Crusaders squads on their own won't, crusader squads backed by excellent BT's character buffs will

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Re-rolling charge ranges is okay, as far as CT's go, but is there even a point? I mean, getting into combat is nice but what do marines have that can pack a punch in melee?

Like, if you're going up against another dedicated assault army like Khorne or Orks, are Crusader squads really going to cut it?

Strategems might make the reroll even better. What if BT have a Strategem that allows them to pile in twice like a Khorne Berserker? Lots of things could make it worth it.

Malifice wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Crimson fists cant use them.

We get our own Warlord trait (Pedro Kantor awaits with baited breath) and our own unique Relic (The Oath of Rynn?).

Unlike the other chapters, we dont get any unique strategems.

Rynn's Might; quasi-sentient landraider with a salty, salty machine spirit. THAT would be a relic I'd love to see.

Iron Mike wrote:

Malifice wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We still need to see the Imperial Fists Strategems too, though.

Crimson fists cant use them.

We get our own Warlord trait (Pedro Kantor awaits with baited breath) and our own unique Relic (The Oath of Rynn?).

Unlike the other chapters, we dont get any unique strategems.

Rynn's Might; quasi-sentient landraider with a salty, salty machine spirit. THAT would be a relic I'd love to see.

Please let this be it.

Im totes repainting the chapter RG if its something sucky.

Cortez forgive me!

10 Man Sternguard Squad. All Special Issue Boltguns. Comes in at 190 pts. Park them within 15" of something you want dead. Use Bolter Drill (1CP) and Masterful Marksmanship (1CP) on the Sternguard Squad. Drink your opponent's tears.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
10 Man Sternguard Squad. All Special Issue Boltguns. Comes in at 190 pts. Park them within 15" of something you want dead. Use Bolter Drill (1CP) and Masterful Marksmanship (1CP) on the Sternguard Squad. Drink your opponent's tears.

Yes. And with a Chapter Master within 6" of 'em too. Reroll failed rolls to hit. +1 on rolls to wound. Fire twice. Profit.

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
10 Man Sternguard Squad. All Special Issue Boltguns. Comes in at 190 pts. Park them within 15" of something you want dead. Use Bolter Drill (1CP) and Masterful Marksmanship (1CP) on the Sternguard Squad. Drink your opponent's tears.

Yes. And with a Chapter Master within 6" of 'em too. Reroll failed rolls to hit. +1 on rolls to wound. Fire twice. Profit.

Lias Issodon approves greatly. Well, of those strategems... unless they are IF exclusive.

They do not appear to be exclusive. Lias be praised.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
10 Man Sternguard Squad. All Special Issue Boltguns. Comes in at 190 pts. Park them within 15" of something you want dead. Use Bolter Drill (1CP) and Masterful Marksmanship (1CP) on the Sternguard Squad. Drink your opponent's tears.

Yes. And with a Chapter Master within 6" of 'em too. Reroll failed rolls to hit. +1 on rolls to wound. Fire twice. Profit.

Lias Issodon approves greatly. Well, of those strategems... unless they are IF exclusive.

Bolter Drill is exclusive, Masterful Marksmanship is not. Lias can Infiltrate them though, which is nuts. I think Pedro Kantor running with my Sternguard just became mandatory.

Can't you just make Lias as a IF successor?

 pretre wrote:
Can't you just make Lias as a IF successor?

No, he has the Raptors keyword.

 pretre wrote:
Can't you just make Lias as a IF successor?

Depends on what Forgeworld decides to do with Tactics. There is about a 0% chance that they won't end up with either Raven Guard tactics or their own Tactics. Both scenarios prevent taking Bolter Drill.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Can't you just make Lias as a IF successor?

Depends on what Forgeworld decides to do with Tactics. There is about a 0% chance that they won't end up with either Raven Guard tactics or their own Tactics. Both scenarios prevent taking Bolter Drill.

RG would help if the list wanted to focus on using the Special Ammo. But Combi-Plasma seems better... so it doesn't help in that regard as you will be too close. Huh. I guess it helps for stuff not infiltrating in with Lias.

Until FW delivers chapter tactics, Raptors can be IH successors.

I know i talk about the venerable chaplain dreadnought practically every other post right now BUTTTTT as far as i have seen from reading other people codex reviews there's nothing stopping it from taking he a relic Armour of Antilochus giving it a 2+ and situational 3++

You could also give it the Salamanders mantle if you fancy going green and get the same toughness as a land raider

Or if you really hate having friends then use a little bit of command point goodness and grab both... and a warlord trait

 pretre wrote:
Until FW delivers chapter tactics, Raptors can be IH successors.

Raptors are not an IH successor chapter. They are a Raven Guard successor. That is an established fact, and trying to do otherwise is ridiculous. GW has responded to comments and states you use their parent chapters, which all previous editions show Raptors as RG.

 pretre wrote:
Until FW delivers chapter tactics, Raptors can be IH successors.

How so?

if you picture your favourite Successors fighting differently, you’re welcome to use whichever Chapter Tactic suits. You could just as well play on the rumoured links between the Black Dragons and the Salamanders, or play up the shadowy nature of the Exorcists and give them the stealthy tactics of the Raven Guard. It’s up to you!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

Well basically we would need confirmation from FW how it works, but honestly Raven Guard fits the Raptors MO.