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I thought I would get the ball rolling here. Here are some takeaways and some questions...

*Razorbacks seem pretty good for their points.
*Terminator Armor seems to be a good upgrade for HQ choices. Being able to teleport anywhere and the better saves and more wounds.
*Librarian or Captain? Both can be kitted out cheap or pricier. I am thinking the cheaper will be the standard with things dying so easily.
*Grav Cents seemed balanced now.
*Storm Ravens seem quite good. (Storm Strike Missles are not single use and the Raven has two).
*Ironclads seem like they will be monsters in combat.
*Venerable Dreads aren't bad compared to other dreads.
*Scout Snipers seem good.
*Guilliman in every Space Marine list?
*Drop pods officially done?

Storm ravens have me excited. What makes you say that Guilliman is an auto-take, just out of curiosity?

 Aetare wrote:
Storm ravens have me excited. What makes you say that Guilliman is an auto-take, just out of curiosity?

*+3 CP
*12" bubble of reroll 1's to hit and +1" on advance and charge.
*Monster in CC
*Shooting protection because of <10 wounds.
*3+ invulnerable.
*50% chance to resurrect.

I guess not auto-include. But man, he provides a ton of synergy.

Looks pretty fearsome; gonna have to see if I can afford to drop those kinds of points.

Median Trace wrote:
I thought I would get the ball rolling here. Here are some takeaways and some questions...

*Razorbacks seem pretty good for their points.
*Terminator Armor seems to be a good upgrade for HQ choices. Being able to teleport anywhere and the better saves and more wounds.
*Librarian or Captain? Both can be kitted out cheap or pricier. I am thinking the cheaper will be the standard with things dying so easily.
*Grav Cents seemed balanced now.
*Storm Ravens seem quite good. (Storm Strike Missles are not single use and the Raven has two).
*Ironclads seem like they will be monsters in combat.
*Venerable Dreads aren't bad compared to other dreads.
*Scout Snipers seem good.
*Guilliman in every Space Marine list?
*Drop pods officially done?

Time to review the old "no named characters without prior consent" rule.

 jeff white wrote:

Median Trace wrote:
I thought I would get the ball rolling here. Here are some takeaways and some questions...

*Razorbacks seem pretty good for their points.
*Terminator Armor seems to be a good upgrade for HQ choices. Being able to teleport anywhere and the better saves and more wounds.
*Librarian or Captain? Both can be kitted out cheap or pricier. I am thinking the cheaper will be the standard with things dying so easily.
*Grav Cents seemed balanced now.
*Storm Ravens seem quite good. (Storm Strike Missles are not single use and the Raven has two).
*Ironclads seem like they will be monsters in combat.
*Venerable Dreads aren't bad compared to other dreads.
*Scout Snipers seem good.
*Guilliman in every Space Marine list?
*Drop pods officially done?

Time to review the old "no named characters without prior consent" rule.

My thoughts exactly

Gulliman's a monster but he's an expensive monster.

at 360 points I think he's gonna be hard to squeeze into lists. He'll show up, but I'd not expect it to be a regular thing.

I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

I bottleneck on Elite Slots. Between my above list and my two Sternguard Squads, I have 6 slots used. That means -1 Command Point in order to take my Culexus Assassin.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

The inclusion of the Terminus Ultra makes me happier then it should. 8 Lascannons on a tank, hilarious. Although why it costs 400 points without the Lascannons is a bit beyond me.

Yeah, I think drop pods are done.
Why opt for a 103 point drop pod when you can land 9'' away from anything with jump packs at 10-20 points/unit? Or if your unit can't take jump packs, then why not pay the points for a storm raven with 14w and a litany of weapons instead? I can't see a competitive use for the drop pod, but I still think they look awesome.

 ForceChoke wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

All the benefits I listed are not Chapter Specific. There is an Ultramarines buff as well but I didn't include it.

 Insectum7 wrote:
The inclusion of the Terminus Ultra makes me happier then it should. 8 Lascannons on a tank, hilarious. Although why it costs 400 points without the Lascannons is a bit beyond me.

I noticed though it,. sadly, has the Ultramarines Key word, somewhat dissappointing, although there aren't many times the key word would be useful, and as a lord of war it can go into it's own detachment so no big deal

Median Trace wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

All the benefits I listed are not Chapter Specific. There is an Ultramarines buff as well but I didn't include it.

Pretty sure he meant fluffwise

ERJAK wrote:

Median Trace wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

All the benefits I listed are not Chapter Specific. There is an Ultramarines buff as well but I didn't include it.

Pretty sure he meant fluffwise

Maybe but we're talking from a general unit construction POV, the point was to note that Gulliman is good but not nesscarily "autotake" good

 benlac wrote:
Yeah, I think drop pods are done.
Why opt for a 103 point drop pod when you can land 9'' away from anything with jump packs at 10-20 points/unit? Or if your unit can't take jump packs, then why not pay the points for a storm raven with 14w and a litany of weapons instead? I can't see a competitive use for the drop pod, but I still think they look awesome.

Drop pods are 109 points?

Wtf?

Way to break my army gw


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Median Trace wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

All the benefits I listed are not Chapter Specific. There is an Ultramarines buff as well but I didn't include it.

Pretty sure he meant fluffwise

Maybe but we're talking from a general unit construction POV, the point was to note that Gulliman is good but not nesscarily "autotake" good

I outright refuse to play min max builds. Especially when they cheat by taking heroes that don't belong to that chapter. It's cheap and is a bastardisation of the point of the game fun. Likewise I don't enjoy playing people that pick chapter tactics when they arrive at the match when they clearly have Templars or Dark Angeles

 ForceChoke wrote:

 benlac wrote:
Yeah, I think drop pods are done.
Why opt for a 103 point drop pod when you can land 9'' away from anything with jump packs at 10-20 points/unit? Or if your unit can't take jump packs, then why not pay the points for a storm raven with 14w and a litany of weapons instead? I can't see a competitive use for the drop pod, but I still think they look awesome.

Drop pods are 109 points?

Wtf?

Way to break my army gw


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Median Trace wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

All the benefits I listed are not Chapter Specific. There is an Ultramarines buff as well but I didn't include it.

Pretty sure he meant fluffwise

Maybe but we're talking from a general unit construction POV, the point was to note that Gulliman is good but not nesscarily "autotake" good

I outright refuse to play min max builds. Especially when they cheat by taking heroes that don't belong to that chapter. It's cheap and is a bastardisation of the point of the game fun. Likewise I don't enjoy playing people that pick chapter tactics when they arrive at the match when they clearly have Templars or Dark Angeles

Maybe but in this case we're examining partiuclar aspects of things. it's a rules based anylasis. someone noted that Gulliman was "really good" someone with a crimson fists army who'd done the math noted "I could take X Y and Z for those points and have something even better"

 ForceChoke wrote:

 benlac wrote:
Yeah, I think drop pods are done.
Why opt for a 103 point drop pod when you can land 9'' away from anything with jump packs at 10-20 points/unit? Or if your unit can't take jump packs, then why not pay the points for a storm raven with 14w and a litany of weapons instead? I can't see a competitive use for the drop pod, but I still think they look awesome.

Drop pods are 109 points?

Wtf?

Way to break my army gw


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Median Trace wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I can run my entire command unit(Pedro Kantor, Chapter Champion, Chapter Ancient, 2 Honour Guard, and an Apothecary all in a Rhino Primaris) for about the same price as Guiliman. They have many more wounds than him and a ton more attacks, all the while giving +1 Attack, Rerolls to all, and +1 Ld in a blob. So no, I don't think I am missing out with Guiliman. Mind you, my unit Costa 2 HQ and 4 Elite slots, but nothing's perfect.

given Gulliman is a Lord of War and thus would effectively require a specialized detachment to take him though, you could take your Crimson fists command group in a vanguard detachment and not sacrifice any slots from a Battalion detachment

He's not a crimson fist however. Thus he has no place in your list.

All the benefits I listed are not Chapter Specific. There is an Ultramarines buff as well but I didn't include it.

Pretty sure he meant fluffwise

Maybe but we're talking from a general unit construction POV, the point was to note that Gulliman is good but not nesscarily "autotake" good

I outright refuse to play min max builds. Especially when they cheat by taking heroes that don't belong to that chapter. It's cheap and is a bastardisation of the point of the game fun. Likewise I don't enjoy playing people that pick chapter tactics when they arrive at the match when they clearly have Templars or Dark Angeles

Yeah, the color I paint my tactical marines will be the deciding factor in what rules I get precisely 3 days after hell freezes over.

Guilliman's aura is 12". It affects all Imperium Units. Only one of Pedro's auras affects units not models. But I am approaching this as someone who plays Iron Hands. For me, why would I not include him outside of fluff reasons?

Is it just me or dose a SM captain on a bike come off as a cheaper better captain in graves armor?

 mew28 wrote:
Is it just me or dose a SM captain on a bike come off as a cheaper better captain in graves armor?

Gravis Captain seems like the better CC unit. I actually think the stock Terminator Captain is fairly good for its cost. With the new Deepstrike rules, if gives you a lot of potential tactical positioning. But it seems like there is some flexibility with generic HQ choices. I think they did a good job balancing the Captain options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Imperial Space is a character now. Lost his CC weapon. An elite choice.