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Does the waaagh banner affect grots? Stack with their dangerous in numbers rule? I'm thinking weight of attacks + high model account but boys would probably do the job better but have fewer models.


Gits hit on 4s, with ammo runts you're looking at 10
Rerolls. 30 shots, 15 hit, 15 reroll, 7.5 more hits.

22.5 hits wounding on 3s vs 3+ with -2 and no fnp means 14.99 wounds, and using a 5+ 9.99 marines should die. Not sure what a 10 man squad costs but that's not looking bad.

Shooting a 4+ t8 vehicle they are still doing 22.5 hits and 7.49 wounds on a 5+ which do some damage?

That's pretty good imho for 310 points shootin from a 180 platform (only rolla no guns)

If ya add badrukk
If they get out and get his buff, assuming they didn't move this turn, with badruk allowing re roll of 1s, then use your ammo runt re rolls on 2s and 3s to hit. Then badruk let's you re roll ones to wound which should greatly make the unit more Killy vs vehicles?


On issue of gun boats. I like idea of just 4 big shoota to help clear out small units trying to get our lootas or gits on the boats.

Kannon and killkanon are expensive but just thinking of stars aligning and getting 18 dmg onto a target in a mere 2 shots. Makes me all fuzzy




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Forgetting about leadership, I think it would be better to have 1 squad of 20 because if you roll a one for those shots, you can use 1 command point for a re-roll. So a really good chance of getting a 3

I think loota mob caps at 15 :(

i think then for lootas 12, 8 split works well. you gain the 12 LD from the mob rule, incase you roll poorly in an explodes. so say you lose like 4 or something. the 12 LD will prevent the other 4 running. you have a unit of 8, which even if the 12 disembarks it can take 1 casualty and is still immune to morale. You can split fire the 8 into two 4s, then depending on how well they perform you can split the 12 as needed.

i like the idea of 4x5 in terms of averaging your d3 rolls. but im not sure how practical they will work morale wise. once your vehicle pops and they become 4x5 units in the open it becomes very easy for them to start failing multiple morale tests. Whereas, 12, 8, even if after an explodes they focus the 8 group they will still be LD 12 meaning your immune up until 6+ dead. and if they focus the 12 your also immune until 3+ dead.

Im interested in the math on the gitz. for example, how many ammo runts, and how many gitz. im wondering if a 2/3 gitz to 1/3 ammo runts would be most effective. youll almost always get to re-roll the maximum number of ammo runts but you've got the swing factor of getting more shots on good rolls and get more shots in general? also the roll a 6 and shoot again counts for more. i'll have to math it out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
does disembarking count as moving? for the purpose of gitz?

Are tankbustas worth the wounds they do? I keep getting a group of 10 in a trukk averaging 6-9 wounds a turn(assuming the enemy is bringing vehicles), which comes in at approximately 252 points. That said they have to get into 24in range and will likely be targeted by your opponent first most times, seeing them dead by turn 2-3.
For a little over a hundred points more you could grab a gorkanaut.

Can the Waaagh! Banner bearer be outfitted with a PK? The model I currently have my banner on has a Klaw, and I heard that it won't be able to take one...

oh wow! waaagh banner works for all clan units. which is every unit except flashgitz it appears..... so walker lists will benefit. im now thinking grotz and walkers. bring a stompa, immunity to morale. wrap it up in hundreds of grots and your other walkers, so a morka for kff. and watch in horror as your grots hit on 3+ in combat and 3+ in shooting so long as they are above 20 models. could be hilarious

no PK for banner nob

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Can the Waaagh! Banner bearer be outfitted with a PK? The model I currently have my banner on has a Klaw, and I heard that it won't be able to take one...

Nob w/ Waaagh Banna has a set loadout, based on the model.

FWIW, the Banna itself is a weapon listed on the unit profile, stats like a big choppa - it's not a PK, but it's something, at least?

 Jambles wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Can the Waaagh! Banner bearer be outfitted with a PK? The model I currently have my banner on has a Klaw, and I heard that it won't be able to take one...

Nob w/ Waaagh Banna has a set loadout, based on the model.

FWIW, the Banna itself is a weapon listed on the unit profile, stats like a big choppa - it's not a PK, but it's something, at least?

Well, smashing the enemy with the actual banner is certainly the more orky solution... It's just a bummer that the model I've used since 5th is no longer a viable model to field. :-/

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Can the Waaagh! Banner bearer be outfitted with a PK? The model I currently have my banner on has a Klaw, and I heard that it won't be able to take one...

Nob w/ Waaagh Banna has a set loadout, based on the model.

FWIW, the Banna itself is a weapon listed on the unit profile, stats like a big choppa - it's not a PK, but it's something, at least?

Well, smashing the enemy with the actual banner is certainly the more orky solution... It's just a bummer that the model I've used since 5th is no longer a viable model to field. :-/

Viable... I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Seriously, probably one of the best new options we've got. Snap the PK off if you need to, but make it work! You won't regret it.

Yeah, banner Nob looks great. I never had one before as I didn't run a nobz mob, but I think it's time for a dive into the bitz box.

I intend to field it. It's a good unit. But it's a drag that mine no longer works the way it's modeled, and I wish I didn't have to break my figures to be able to continue to use them. That's exactly what viable means. If I can't use it as it's modeled, it's not a viable unit for me to field unless I break it. That sucks.

The waagh banner cant take a claw (which oddly the official model has a metal hand) Its a fixed profile. You cant even downgrade his kustom shoota to a shoota.

Badrukk doesn't reroll to wound rolls of 1. I wish he did because he isn't quite worth it when ammo runts are much better and don't stack w him well.

Disembarking specifically states it counts as moving for all rules purposes =/

2/3 to 1/3 gits to runts is a good ratio in a wagon. Don't forget each runt is an ablative wound making gitz fairly durable.

Point for point tankbustas and especailly bomb squigs are by far our best option against vehicles. Tankbusta bombs are better than a rokkit launcha if you can get in range to throw one. Rokkit pistols are better against toughness6 targets or targets with 2 or less wounds, but we have better options to deal with those units.

As stated before lets assume we will face at least 1 imperial knight in a list. this monstrosity has 24 wounds, toughness 8 3+ sv, and a 5++ invul.

Ideal weapon against it is str8+ ap-2 or spamming mortal wounds which we cant do well.

a blob of 30 boys w a waagh banner in range will only do 121 atks on a charge, with 100.83 hits, with ~17 wounds, and ~6 through the save at 6 wounds total. This unit costs 259 w waaagh nob.

10 tankbustas/4 bomb squigs at 18 range will do 5.55/3.9 hits, 2.78/1.95 wounds, 1.85/1.3 through the save. With 3 damage for rokkits and average of 3.5 damage with the bomb equals 5.55/4.55 or 10.1 wounds. This unit costs 210 points. You can do even more damage if you get into tankbusta bomb grenade range 6', but I was trying to be a bit more realistic.

So tankbustas do more wounds for less points to a vehicle than a maxed out fully buffed blob. take 4 units of tankbustas and 4 bomb squigs and place 2 units w 2 squigs in a trukk each and you can do 15.67 wounds to an imperial knight in 1 turn over 20 if you took 8 squigs.. (of course not everyone is going to get in 18in range.) have I mentioned how brutal bomb squigs are with a 2+ rerollable and 4+ to wound vs toughness 8 and d6 wounds and assault you can even advance and reliably hit with them.

From a power level perspective it would be funny as hell and from a points perspective it would be doable.

Stompa = 900pts of uselessness except for its Aura. A mob of 30 Grotz is 90pts. So in a 1,500pt game you could field 6 Units of 30 with enough points left for a Banner nob.

Conversely if you want to be a really annoying A-Hole you could field Ghaz, a Painboy, a Weirdboy the Banner Nob for 392pts and then have 1108pts for grots which would be 369 Grotz or 12 Full 30 man squads and 27 left over points so probably grab that runtherder for the reroll 1s.

So now you have a ENORMOUS HORDE of grotz who are hitting there shots on 3s, wounding pretty much everything on 5s and 6s but you get to reroll 1s, They are basically fearless thanks to Ghaz. When they finally get into CC they will have 3 attacks each hitting on 4s (Ghaz, Weirdboy and banner Nob) 4 if they get a charge bonus (not sure if that exists still).

So...not exactly a fun list to play or play against but it would be incredibly hard to beat that list because nobody would expect a need to bring that much firepower

Ohh and because of the painboy against non AP weapons they have 2 6+ saves against wounds, 1 6+ save against anything with AP

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I intend to field it. It's a good unit. But it's a drag that mine no longer works the way it's modeled, and I wish I didn't have to break my figures to be able to continue to use them. That's exactly what viable means. If I can't use it as it's modeled, it's not a viable unit for me to field unless I break it. That sucks.

You expected everything to remain the same this edition?

 koooaei wrote:
*killsaw maths*.

I had a feeling that the Killsaws would be straight up better.

XTheWaffen wrote:
Are tankbustas worth the wounds they do? I keep getting a group of 10 in a trukk averaging 6-9 wounds a turn(assuming the enemy is bringing vehicles), which comes in at approximately 252 points. That said they have to get into 24in range and will likely be targeted by your opponent first most times, seeing them dead by turn 2-3.
For a little over a hundred points more you could grab a gorkanaut.

The gorkanaut is one of our best units especially in melee. (personally I'm hoping the meka dread is cheaper then the morkanaut and can still take a kff. So I can pair it with the Gorkanaut and a pair of deff dreads and maybe 3-6 kans)
The problem w gorkanaut compared to tankbustas is tankbustas actually have a decent chance to hit in the shooting phase and 24in isn't hard to get into considering a trukks base movement is 12in. So in most instances you can fire up to 12in into your opponents deployment zone turn 1.
Because rokkits are assault weapons we can move in the trukk and fire at full ballistic skill OR advance and fire at -1 (not recommended unless you want to get into 18in and unload a lot of bomb squigs who still hit reliably on a 3+ rerollable).

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I intend to field it. It's a good unit. But it's a drag that mine no longer works the way it's modeled, and I wish I didn't have to break my figures to be able to continue to use them. That's exactly what viable means. If I can't use it as it's modeled, it's not a viable unit for me to field unless I break it. That sucks.

take it with the klaw! just say that it's for cheerleading purposes, not fighting. maybe it's rusted shut and doesn't work anymore. it's still an orky thing to do.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I intend to field it. It's a good unit. But it's a drag that mine no longer works the way it's modeled, and I wish I didn't have to break my figures to be able to continue to use them. That's exactly what viable means. If I can't use it as it's modeled, it's not a viable unit for me to field unless I break it. That sucks.

take it with the klaw! just say that it's for cheerleading purposes, not fighting. maybe it's rusted shut and doesn't work anymore. it's still an orky thing to do.

Add a little (removable later if you want) "out of order" sign hanging from his klaw? :p

Sorry if it was asked, but, if a unit with heavy weapons is embarked in a battlewagon, do they benefit from the rule of move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty ?

In open tropped rule said that models embarked shoot as the model (vehicle)

zamerion wrote:
Sorry if it was asked, but, if a unit with heavy weapons is embarked in a battlewagon, do they benefit from the rule of move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty ?

In open tropped rule said that models embarked shoot as the model (vehicle)

It does seem to work that way, and i hope that that is intentional, cuz the Battlewagon would feel a bit expensive otherwise.

Heres a 2k list i cobbled together, its comprised mostly of Kommandoes and Stormboyz, and its whole point is mobility to the extreme.


The Big Mek hangs with the KMKs that can be spread out wherever (plus Mek Guns can actually benefit from cover so you only really need to protect ones that are most likely to be in danger). The Stormboyz blitz up the field (like they should) and the Buggies can outflank or just run up the normal flank and snipe Vehicles that the KMKs can't get. The Kommandoes are for Objective nabbing and being the hammer to the Stormboyz other hammer (Orks don't do anvils )

This list has a fair few models (over 100) and it hits fairly hard. Its main issue is, is that it has to get in melee to crush hordes, which really isn't an issue.

Re: battlewagon it seems it's intentional that they fire as per the BW. The BW can move and fire heavy weapons due to "mobile fortress" so this leads to models on board being able to move and fire heavy at full bs. Clearly the open topped rule references restrictions and modifications.

The mobile fortress rule is clearly a modification.

A restriction would be advancing, the units inside would be restricted to firing assault weapons just like the BW.

Which does make them nice firebases for lootas

 Jambles wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I intend to field it. It's a good unit. But it's a drag that mine no longer works the way it's modeled, and I wish I didn't have to break my figures to be able to continue to use them. That's exactly what viable means. If I can't use it as it's modeled, it's not a viable unit for me to field unless I break it. That sucks.

You expected everything to remain the same this edition?

Of course not. Some units get better, others get worse, etc. I've survived a lot of edition changes. But it's always a bummer when your models straight-up can't be fielded anymore without modification.

Have I pissed you off in some way or are you just purposely being obtuse for some reason?

Just field it as is. Your opponent will probably be too distracted by the fact that the Nob is beating his guys upside the head with his flag to even notice the Klaw.

 JohnU wrote:
Just field it as is. Your opponent will probably be too distracted by the fact that the Nob is beating his guys upside the head with his flag to even notice the Klaw.

Ya, I'll probably have to.

I love that the banner is a weapon though; that's the orkiest thing I've seen in a while.

 Grimmor wrote:

zamerion wrote:
Sorry if it was asked, but, if a unit with heavy weapons is embarked in a battlewagon, do they benefit from the rule of move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty ?

In open tropped rule said that models embarked shoot as the model (vehicle)

It does seem to work that way, and i hope that that is intentional, cuz the Battlewagon would feel a bit expensive otherwise.

Heres a 2k list i cobbled together, its comprised mostly of Kommandoes and Stormboyz, and its whole point is mobility to the extreme.

Spoiler:

Outrider Detachment
HQ
Boss Zagstrukk-88

Fast Attack
30 Stormboyz w/ BC Nob-249
30 Stormboyz w/ BC Nob-249
30 Stormboyz w/ BC Nob-249

3 Warbuggies w/ Rokkit Racks-216
3 Warbuggies w/ Rokkit Racks-216


Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Boss Snikrot-69

Elite
10 Kommandoes w/ 2 Burnas, Nob w/ BC-99
10 Kommandoes w/ 2 Burnas, Nob w/ BC-99
10 Kommandoes w/ 2 Burnas, Nob w/ BC-99


Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Big Mek w/ KFF-75

Heavy Support
3 Mek Guns w/ KMKs- 114
2 Mek Guns w/ KMKs- 76
2 Mek Guns w/ KMKs- 76

Total:1974

The Big Mek hangs with the KMKs that can be spread out wherever (plus Mek Guns can actually benefit from cover so you only really need to protect ones that are most likely to be in danger). The Stormboyz blitz up the field (like they should) and the Buggies can outflank or just run up the normal flank and snipe Vehicles that the KMKs can't get. The Kommandoes are for Objective nabbing and being the hammer to the Stormboyz other hammer (Orks don't do anvils )

This list has a fair few models (over 100) and it hits fairly hard. Its main issue is, is that it has to get in melee to crush hordes, which really isn't an issue.

The new way to make an army list is an absolute pain in the arse. It took me like a dozen times to get the points right. Each Mek gun is accompanied by 5 grots that cost 2pts each so each kmk Mek gun is 48 points. You're about 70pts short. Just drop one Mek gun and you're at 1996 points (enough for a 4pt kustom shoota :p). Nice list. Ill never have the models to spam 90 stormboys. (Only 15 and zagstruk at the moment).

And if that doesn't confuse you enough, Big Gunz are a different entry and only have two grots.

gungo wrote:
The new way to make an army list is an absolute pain in the arse. It took me like a dozen times to get the points right. Each Mek gun is accompanied by 5 grots that cost 2pts each so each kmk Mek gun is 48 points. You're about 70pts short. Just drop one Mek gun and you're at 1996 points (enough for a 4pt kustom shoota :p). Nice list. Ill never have the models to spam 90 stormboys. (Only 15 and zagstruk at the moment).

Bugger all. I almost hoped the Grots where free. Oh well, at least they got cheaper even if the gun got more expensive. In any event, i can't either, but im gonna make some Rokkit Packs for my Slugga boyz with Magnets so i can use them for whatever.

 JohnU wrote:
And if that doesn't confuse you enough, Big Gunz are a different entry and only have two grots.

Yeesh, if i did wanna take Kannons before i dont now.

Re-edited list

I have about 45 Stormboyz who are finally going to be useful.

I am really REALLY hoping that the Ork Codex fixes a lot of these issues im seeing, but mostly I want Klan Specific buffs. Goff boyz get +1 attack or something.

 Grimmor wrote:

gungo wrote:
The new way to make an army list is an absolute pain in the arse. It took me like a dozen times to get the points right. Each Mek gun is accompanied by 5 grots that cost 2pts each so each kmk Mek gun is 48 points. You're about 70pts short. Just drop one Mek gun and you're at 1996 points (enough for a 4pt kustom shoota :p). Nice list. Ill never have the models to spam 90 stormboys. (Only 15 and zagstruk at the moment).

Bugger all. I almost hoped the Grots where free. Oh well, at least they got cheaper even if the gun got more expensive. In any event, i can't either, but im gonna make some Rokkit Packs for my Slugga boyz with Magnets so i can use them for whatever.

 JohnU wrote:
And if that doesn't confuse you enough, Big Gunz are a different entry and only have two grots.

Yeesh, if i did wanna take Kannons before i dont now.

Re-edited list

Spoiler:

Outrider Detachment
HQ
Boss Zagstrukk-88

Fast Attack
30 Stormboyz w/ BC Nob-249
30 Stormboyz w/ BC Nob-249
30 Stormboyz w/ BC Nob-249

3 Warbuggies w/ Rokkit Racks-216
3 Warbuggies w/ Rokkit Racks-216


Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Boss Snikrot-69

Elite
10 Kommandoes w/ 2 Burnas, Nob w/ BC-99
10 Kommandoes w/ 2 Burnas, Nob w/ BC-99
10 Kommandoes w/ 2 Burnas, Nob w/ BC-99


Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Big Mek w/ KFF-75

Heavy Support
2 Mek Guns w/ KMKs- 96
2 Mek Guns w/ KMKs- 96
2 Mek Guns w/ KMKs- 96

Total:1996

Pretty brutal list.

So let me see if I got this right.
Stormboyz have the fly and jumppack keywords
Fly allows you to ignore intervening models or terrain during movement and allows you to shoot when you fall back and land on the top of ruins. And not setoff explosions when you move over the battlescape And allows stormboys to assault other flyers.

Jumppack does absolutely nothing...

Did I miss anything?

gungo wrote:
So let me see if I got this right.
Stormboyz have the fly and jumppack keywords
Fly allows you to ignore intervening models or terrain during movement and allows you to shoot when you fall back and land on the top of ruins if your a bike, monster, vehicle. And allows stormboys to assault other flyers.

Jumppack does absolutely nothing...

Did I miss anything?

Seems right to me. I think Jumpack is a keyword for abilities, such as Zaggstrukk.