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Here's a general overview of the FW Ork Index

HQ


Fast Attack


Heavy Support


Lord of War


Dedicated Transports

Wouldn't the KFF just use the points from the Xenos 2 index?

Breng77 wrote:
Wouldn't the KFF just use the points from the Xenos 2 index?

You'd think, but since they have a wargear points list included which has lots of index stuff already, it should be in there as well even if it's 0 points.

Just noticed that the 'Ard Case is 3 points in the FW index.

Hm the supa kannon looks fun. Shame about 6 transport capacity though. Suppose could still fit 3 SAG inside ? Expensive but would be killy?

Sag are never worth it for their cost on ork bs moels. I'd consider them for 20 pts though.

Uh, at 28 points, the Supa-Skorcha is ridonkulous.

24" 4d3 auto-hits, 6, -2, 1

 JohnU wrote:

Just noticed that the 'Ard Case is 3 points in the FW index.

Is this for Boyz? Do we now have the option for 4+ Boyz again? At 1 point cheaper and many fewer things ignoring their save and cover essentially making them MEQs, I'd seriously consider smaller mobs of 'Ard Boyz.

 KommissarKiln wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

Just noticed that the 'Ard Case is 3 points in the FW index.

Is this for Boyz? Do we now have the option for 4+ Boyz again? At 1 point cheaper and many fewer things ignoring their save and cover essentially making them MEQs, I'd seriously consider smaller mobs of 'Ard Boyz.

'ard case is a vehicle upgrade, not 'eavy armor. It was unpriced in the non-FW ork index.

Also, I'm pretty excited about the gargantuan squiggoth. It seems pretty great and actually reasonably priced. Pity about the kustom stompa, I have a couple. And they are now AWFUL. Or, at best, incredibly overpriced.

Jidmah wrote:I haven't played against harlequins, but the oldest tactic against fast eldar or dark eldar skimmers is to just field tons of ork boyz.

At some point they will simply run out of space to run to.

I played mine Harlequins last night. 4++ is pretty handy when you make 95% of them.

They are so mobile and and going to out-charge Orks but it will be hard since you can blanket the table in boyz (and often do).

popisdead wrote:

Jidmah wrote:I haven't played against harlequins, but the oldest tactic against fast eldar or dark eldar skimmers is to just field tons of ork boyz.

At some point they will simply run out of space to run to.

I played mine Harlequins last night. 4++ is pretty handy when you make 95% of them.

They are so mobile and and going to out-charge Orks but it will be hard since you can blanket the table in boyz (and often do).

And their bikes get to move farther advance a full 6" and charge every turn, regardless of any FW bikerboss near them.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Does Zhadsnark have any special rules that effect bikes? He hard carried my ork armies in 7th.

Not that I can see.

Darn...that is unfortunate. At the very least I was hoping he would have something like the old exhaust/dust cloud rule. Maybe a -1 to hit in shooting against zhadsnark and any biker boys within 6 inches. Fluffy and helpful. Would have been so easy....

Nice write up except I'm Not a fan of squiggoths without the mobile fortress rule. They are transports that can melee but can't gunwagon what I want them too such as lootas and flashgits. The gargantuan squiggoth is better becuase it's way more killy however all those heavy wpns are going to shoot on a 6+. Such an awesome looking model too.

I'm a huge fan of zhardsnark. His claw is significantly better: no -1 hit modifier, -4ap, an extra atk and does an addtional mortal wound on 6. He tears up everything in game. 2+ to hit Str 12 powerklaws w 6atks absolutely demolished vehicles and mc and is why ghaz is a beatstick in combat. And this guy is way faster then ghaz.

The more I think about it I think the mekadread just flat out tells you to choose the kff or the megachsrger and its included in the price which makes it a decent durable kff unit for 256 w rattler arm. I think the rokkit bombs are the same it just isnt even listed as a carried weapon.

I think buzzgrob might come w a kff as well but he is still lackluster w a free kff even if he is a bit more durable. I was at least hoping he worked like ghaz and can work on ANY clan vehicles.

The big trakk w supa skorcha is the only one I like and it might be the only version worth taking w 6 burnas for some serious flame action.

Mekadread and zhardsnark are probably the only 2 units I'll use from this dex.

Is the Mekadread the same size as a standard Deff' Dread (for proxy purposes to see if I like the unit before I buy) or is it much much larger?

I agree though the Mekadread and Zhad are the only two I will be using.

This sucks big hairy balls. I was really hoping Zhadsnark could breath some life into warbikers because I have 34 of them and right now they aren't playable.

Yes warbikes are fast, but they can't Advance and charge, can't deep strike, cant jink and so far in most of the games ive played they end up with a 5+ or 6+ armor save which negates there 2wound buff.

All told the warbikers went up in cost 50% and become crappeir :(

 JohnU wrote:
Here's a general overview of the FW Ork Index

HQ

Spoiler:

*Note: FW Named characters do NOT have the cost of wargear included like the regular index.*

Zhadsnark

Good: A Biker Boss with slightly better stats (+1M, +1W, +1A). Bike has two big shootas and advances 6". Slighly better Klaw that can cause extra mortal wounds. Only costs a little more than a PK Biker Boss (122 pts)
Bad: Evil Sunz clan, so Breakin' Heads is limited to that clan. Waaagh only effects infantry. No Attack Squig.

Buzzgob

Good: 4+ BS, Extra grot oiler, +2W over a Big Mek
Bad: Slugga is only ranged option, KFF is listed in abilities but currently has not way to take it. Expensive (84 points) even if KFF is included (unsure, no KFF entry in points list), Melee focused with mediocre melee profile.

Fast Attack

Spoiler:

Grot Tanks

Good: Cheap (30 points before guns, min squad size 4), Grot shooting, Sergeant can take a 2nd special/heavy, 6+ Inv
Bad: Must have a Big Mek in army, Grot Leadership, No CC ability, -1W and armor compared to Kans, 2d6" Move

Grot Mega Tank

Good: Grot shooting, Lotta guns, Fairly cheap (131 for all big shootas, 177 all rokkits, two twin and three single guns)
Bad: 2d6" move, Mutiny rule prevents shooting on a 1 (roll one die before shooting) on a 6 get +1 to hit but no split fire

Heavy Support

Spoiler:

Squiggoth

Good: +2W, +1WS vs Battlewagon, Passengers can shoot even if a unit is within 1" but not at that unit, S7 AP -3 D6 damage melee weapon (at full wounds), D3 mortal wounds to any unit it charges on a 2+ roll
Bad: -2M, -1S, -1A vs Battlewagon, 15 points more than a BW w/ Deff Rolla (195), 10 passenger transport capacity

Meka-Dread

Good: +2M, +1BS, +1S, +8W, +3A vs Deff Dread, Better gun selection, 4+ FNP at start, Ignores Fall Back penalties, Mega Charga gets you there fast, Most options put you in the ~250ish point range
Bad: Must take Mega Charga or KFF, but no points entry for either so cost is unknown, Profile for rokkit-bomms is included but no way to take (and no entry in the points list), FW doesn't have all the arm options modeled.

Lifta-Wagon

Good: Gun auto-hits, BW stats (including Mobile Fortress)
Bad: 214 points, no transport capacity, You don't get to throw tanks around like a bad ass mofo

Big Trakk

Good: 14" move, Mobile Fortress, Regains a wound on a 6 at end of turn, lots of gun choices, probably the closest thing to Looted Wagon rules we're gonna get.
Bad: -1T, -2W vs Battlewagon, A little pricey (142 with stock two big shootas), 12 man transport capacity, 6 if you take a big gun (Kannon, Lobba, etc), 0 if you take a supa-kannon

Battlewagon w/ Supa Kannon

Good: Can transport 6 models as opposed to a Trakk w/ Supa-Kannon, long range, Supa-Kannon is 30 points
Bad: BS 5+, It's a BW with a Supa Kannon not much else to say

Lord of War

Spoiler:

Kill Tank

Good: Tough for the cost (T8, 24W, 265 pts stock), Grot Riggers, Shooty and Fighty (WS 3+, 8A, BS 4+, S10 on the charge), Deals D3 mortal wounds on the charge, 12 man transport capacity
Bad: Passengers shoot at 6+ (explicit rule)

Kustom Stompa
Good: Can fix itself, more dakka than a regular Stompa
Bad: You thought a regular Stompa was expensive? Where's the shields? Same stats as a regular Stompa

Gargantuan Squiggoth

Good: Stompa toughness at half the cost (481 stock, 421 w/ Big zzaps), D6 mortal wounds on the charge, beats much face, Passengers can shoot even if a unit is within 1" but not at that unit, 20 man transport capacity
Bad: $$$$$, 10" move

Dedicated Transports

Spoiler:

Chinork

Good: 16" move, Transport that can deepstrike!, 8" advance, 2 bigbomms
Bad: Same cost as a BW for half the durability (T5, 8W) and half the transport capacity, NOT OPEN TOPPED

Zhadsnark looks like a CC killer; but no rule to make bikers troops makes me sad.
Mek Buzzgob is nothing more than a repair bot; but d3+2 and no movement restrictions seems real solid for repairing large vehicles. If he has a (free) KFF, that might make me consider taking him.

Grot Tanks/Mega Tanks look fun; but realistically not worth their points, doubly so with the random movement. Might have to use a few just cause though.

Squiggoth is really cool, and I'd heavily consider it if it had Mobile Fortress - but without it, what's the point? It mulches things in melee, but that's all it can do. Maybe the Howdah rule might make it a decent mixed arms if it gets into melee...; but seems less functional than its points cost. No "'ere we go" means charges are going to be SUPER risky; if it had that special rule, it'd probably be solid.
Lifta Wagon is cool with the auto-hits; but d6 shots and only 1 mortal wound her hit/wound means in reality it has a very low damage output, especially against the things you'd want to mortal wound.
Big Trakk+Supa-Skorcha looks great; but that seems like the only solid loadout - other gun/transport options are better served with other choices.
BW w/ Supa-Kannon looks like it'd be solid, but BS5 makes it major eh; I'd probably rather take a Mek gunline - though I'm entirely discounting the ability to transport troops.

Kill Tanks have surprising amounts of dakka and melee prowess; but compared to Dakkajets/Mek gunlines, they feel overpriced. That said, theyre more mobile than Mek Gunlinez, and a little tougher than Dakkajets so... maybe they're ok. With jets having -1 to hit though, that's actually a huge deal. - Kill Tanks also being Lords Of War mean you need to take special detachments just for them; which gets pricey quick, or limits your other options. BS4+ is boss though.

Edit: How could I forget the Chinork Warkopta - No "open topped" makes it entirely useless as a vehicle; it needs Open Topped or a special rule (say: Rapid Deployment - When the Chinork Warkopta is deployed, the units inside can disembark immediately. For each model disembarking, roll a d6; on a 1, the unit takes a mortal wound. Models disembarked this way count as having moved during the movement phase, and may not move further this movement phase (but can still shoot/charge).) Not being able to do anything when you deploy within 9" means you'll just get shot up and die; you can't even use it as a gunboat. Kommandos are better for general 9" deepstrike shenanigans.

There is a use for the gargantuan squiggoth as a tankbusta wagon that virtually industructable. Doesn't blow up and can do a lot of damage in melee and still allow bustas to shoot in combat However that's a lot of points.
421 plus 15tankbustas and 5 squigs 305 =726

Furthermore I think stampede is a typo it is suppose to be 2+ it does d6 mortal wounds on charge to all units within 1in.

SemperMortis wrote:
This sucks big hairy balls. I was really hoping Zhadsnark could breath some life into warbikers because I have 34 of them and right now they aren't playable.

Yes warbikes are fast, but they can't Advance and charge, can't deep strike, cant jink and so far in most of the games ive played they end up with a 5+ or 6+ armor save which negates there 2wound buff.

All told the warbikers went up in cost 50% and become crappeir :(

Honestly I think they were just too lazy or unsure to put rules in the selection. Every other bike entry has something that makes them a little unique (1 single special rule) Warbikes got nuthing. Which is so hard for me to believe cause they are probably one of the fluffiest biker units in the game.

I honestly think that its hard to take 8th edition seriously cause it seems like they white washed alot of the units (due to the soft release ie no codexes). Hopeing alot more fluff and competative options when books actually hit (whenever that is)

Hoping for bike option for banner, in additon to many other things.

The meka dread is obviously suppose to purchase the rokkit bomm racks for 13pts. I'm just not sure if it's optional or not regardless it's a decent weapon for 13pts. Still 269 is decent for what I need it for.

Someone was asking for size comparison to a deft dread. It's significantly bigger but smaller than a gorkanaut. Google has a few comparisons.

Hi guys, i need some help. The best list to play against tyranids ? U think we are safe vs them ? Need some tacticts

gungo wrote:
There is a use for the gargantuan squiggoth as a tankbusta wagon that virtually industructable

Equivalent points of scion plasma comsquads will one-shot a squiggoth. Even without orders. So, i'd not call it virtually indistructible. It's virtually one-shottable with competitive stuff unless you bauble wrap it with a ton of boyz and never leave the bauble. But than...what's the point of a squiggoth? Just take more boyz.

Stop with the constant comparing everything to the most overpowered unit in the game it doesnt serve any purpose.
It has nothing to do with balance or proper point costs. Yes deepstriking 35 overcharged plasma weapons into rapid fire range will kill anything. That's not the point. You can take equivilant points of plasma scions and kill anything in one turn even a warlord Titan if you could somehow fit 200+ scions in rapid fire range.

Now how many scion command squads could a gargantuan squiggoth get within 1in when it charges? A lot given The size and titanic keyword of the model and each squad takes d6 mortal wounds on a 2+... that's a lot of dead scion squads on the charge.

What do people enjoy more, Trukk Boyz or 30 footsloggers?

gungo wrote:
Stop with the constant comparing everything to the most overpowered unit in the game it doesnt serve any purpose.
It has nothing to do with balance or proper point costs. Yes deepstriking 35 overcharged plasma weapons into rapid fire range will kill anything. That's not the point. You can take equivilant points of plasma scions and kill anything in one turn even a warlord Titan if you could somehow fit 200+ scions in rapid fire range.

Now how many scion command squads could a gargantuan squiggoth get within 1in when it charges? A lot given The size and titanic keyword of the model and each squad takes d6 mortal wounds on a 2+... that's a lot of dead scion squads on the charge.

That'd be cool if it somehow survived overwatch. I think that the squiggoth's size is more of a problem actually. It's pretty hard to bauble-wrap. Battlewagons are not bad at what they do and are easier to protect from deepstrikers.

 koooaei wrote:

gungo wrote:
There is a use for the gargantuan squiggoth as a tankbusta wagon that virtually industructable

Equivalent points of scion plasma comsquads will one-shot a squiggoth. Even without orders. So, i'd not call it virtually indistructible. It's virtually one-shottable with competitive stuff unless you bauble wrap it with a ton of boyz and never leave the bauble. But than...what's the point of a squiggoth? Just take more boyz.

Does a KFF Big Mek make it cost ineffective to drop plasma comsquads on the Gargantuan Squiggoth?

No, they still kill it but you also pay for the mek, so it's even less cost-effective.

 koooaei wrote:

gungo wrote:
Stop with the constant comparing everything to the most overpowered unit in the game it doesnt serve any purpose.
It has nothing to do with balance or proper point costs. Yes deepstriking 35 overcharged plasma weapons into rapid fire range will kill anything. That's not the point. You can take equivilant points of plasma scions and kill anything in one turn even a warlord Titan if you could somehow fit 200+ scions in rapid fire range.

Now how many scion command squads could a gargantuan squiggoth get within 1in when it charges? A lot given The size and titanic keyword of the model and each squad takes d6 mortal wounds on a 2+... that's a lot of dead scion squads on the charge.

That'd be cool if it somehow survived overwatch. I think that the squiggoth's size is more of a problem actually. It's pretty hard to bauble-wrap. Battlewagons are not bad at what they do and are easier to protect from deepstrikers.

Let's see 9 squads of command squads is 36 scions in rapid fire range cause I'm nice is 12 hits for 6 wounds is a whooping 12wds and 6 dead scions from gets hot. Unless you pay for 9 orders somehow. Regardless now the gargatuan squiggoth charges with its 23 remaining wounds and kills 26+ scions becuase each squad takes d6 mortal wounds on a 2+. So including the gets hot fails 32+ out of your 36scions are now dead..... I assume most of those 4 survivors will die from morale tests. So the squiggoth wipes out the entire 9 scions squads before he even gets his atks first but let's assume those 4 scions would die to the 8 str12 ws3+ ap-4 d6 wounds.... see how hypotheticals work!

You don't want to bubble wrap your garg squiggoth you want to charge and get that model within 1in of as many units as possible.
You don't need to embark a kff having 1 foot of the model inside the kff bubble is enough to get the entire unit in the bubble. Oh btw those 36 scionscost 576 pts more then the garg squiggoth. I wonder what will you ever do once scion command squads gets nerfed!

 Frozocrone wrote:
What do people enjoy more, Trukk Boyz or 30 footsloggers?

I dont bother with trukk boyz. 12 in a trukk is just too small of a number to get any work done and even more so now that the trukk costs 2x as much as before.

 Frozocrone wrote:
What do people enjoy more, Trukk Boyz or 30 footsloggers?

Mobs of 30 boyz are great if they are in numbers, at least 3-4 blobs and with the buffs added by some characters like the nob with the bannner, painobys and weirdboys. Hordes look quite competitive now.

However units of 20 in battlewagons seem quite killy too, they have the numbers to do a lot of damage and the survivability granted by the transport. If you're planning to use ghaz a BW full of boyz is the best option, otherwise he may never reach combat.

Trukk boyz are the weakest choice, they're not useless but 12 boyz without the buffs aren't scary. Maybe a list full of fast units may make them shiny but bikes and buggies are way overcosted. Go with 6 trukks, a biker mek with KFF and a biker boss plus some mek gunz and/or kommandos if you want to use them.

I'm trying 3 wagons full of boyz, I can't stand moving 90+ boyz on foot and I don't even have more than 90 boyz. Transports are quite expensive now but they have become much more reliable in 8th edition.

gungo wrote:

Let's see 9 squads of command squads is 36 scions in rapid fire range cause I'm nice is 12 hits for 6 wounds is a whooping 12wds

36 scions is 48 hits, 24 wounds, 20 go through 6+ armor, exactly 40 damage. You won't be able to charge if there's no model left. If you're playing vs strong deepstrike, you got to bauble wrap. Last game i played vs scion comsquad spam, they one-shot a landraider and a predator on 1-st turn in a 1k pt game. The game was over before sm had a chance to really do anything. You got to have bauble wrap in 8-th or you got to be able to hide stuff in deepstrike yourself. Ideally, you got to be able to do both. Orks can handle scions if we spam enough boyz.

 koooaei wrote:

gungo wrote:

Let's see 9 squads of command squads is 36 scions in rapid fire range cause I'm nice is 12 hits for 6 wounds is a whooping 12wds

36 scions is 48 hits, 24 wounds, 20 go through 6+ armor, exactly 40 damage. You won't be able to charge if there's no model left. If you're playing vs strong deepstrike, you got to bauble wrap. Last game i played vs scion comsquad spam, they one-shot a landraider and a predator on 1-st turn in a 1k pt game. The game was over before sm had a chance to really do anything. You got to have bauble wrap in 8-th or you got to be able to hide stuff in deepstrike yourself. Ideally, you got to be able to do both. Orks can handle scions if we spam enough boyz.

NOT on overwatch which is what I was replying too
Let's put your hypotheticals away comparing every unit vs the most broken unit in the game.
Deepstriking cheap scion command squads can kill anything at equal points even a 4000+pt warlord Titan. There is absolutely no point for you to keep bringing it up over and over vs every unit in the game. It's going to get nerfed.
The garg squiggoth is still a good unit even in a world of scion command squads but it's has its issues being a gunwagon for heavy wpns.