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 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Actually, I'm happy that I can now take more HQ's freely.

I thought 2 HQ's was very restrictive.

Wait, was 2 all that was allowed in a 7th battle forged list?

My friend said it was 3.

Well I might just have been passively cheating for a while.

 Madoch1 wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Actually, I'm happy that I can now take more HQ's freely.

I thought 2 HQ's was very restrictive.

Wait, was 2 all that was allowed in a battle forged list?

My friend said it was 3.

Well I might just have been passively cheating for a while.

You mean last edition? The old FoCs needs 1 HQ, 2 Troop min, and you can have a max of 2 HQ.
There's a bit more variety now.
Sadly, the traditional FOC doesn't seem to exist anymore.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Madoch1 wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Actually, I'm happy that I can now take more HQ's freely.

I thought 2 HQ's was very restrictive.

Wait, was 2 all that was allowed in a battle forged list?

My friend said it was 3.

Well I might just have been passively cheating for a while.

You mean last edition? The old FoCs needs 1 HQ, 2 Troop min, and you can have a max of 2 HQ.
There's a bit more variety now.
Sadly, the traditional FOC doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Although some armies could take several HQs as one spot.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
The Admech are a little bit hurt, the dominus is good, but he costs a fair amount and you don't relaly need more than 1-2. Thankfully, Inquisitors are nice and cheap, give some solid buffs, and can be psykers. Considering our army otherwise lacks any psychic abilities, including denial, this is a good idea. Primaris psykers are also dirt cheap psychic HQ choices, albeit less useful imo.

Be warned, even a single non-AdMech unit in a detachment and every AdMech unit in that detachment loses Canticles.

And people are wondering why some of us Death Guard players are flipping tables about the random exclusion of Terminators, Chosen, Havocs and Daemon Engines apart from the Defiler.

This. This is why. This is almost a preview of how the Codex benefits will work - detachment must be 'All X' or you lose it.

That aside, at least it specifies Detachment - which means AdMech armies will probably end up with less CP having to take a variety of detachments.

Maybe those admech players should be taking one of these detachments? As has been stated a MILLION times DG can take a second detachment. Sorry that you don't have T5 havocs, but you're just going to have to wait - until then you have cheaper havocs.

Spoiler:

God I love how ya'll are just being obtuse.

I mentioned the reason it was a concern - the AdMech thing specifying detachments must be 100% AdMech to benefit from Canticles...but also conceded that it specifically mentions 'detachment' which might be the positive (Remember, in AoS the faction books require the entire army to be Faction X to benefit - there is a precedence and that is a concern.)

I stated that AdMech armies will probably end up having less CP due to having a variety of detachments. You then come in...link the image and ignore the point made. Well fething done.

You'll find that someone able to cram things into a single detachment may well be able to fully utilise the Brigade Detachment or stack a few Battalions. AdMech, not being able to take vehicle squadrons as they could are looking at taking...a variety of detachments.

Now consider this.

Someone who can take a Brigade detachment starts off with 12 CP. 2 Battalions starts with 9 CP.

An AdMech army that say, has to take a Battalion and a Spearhead for their Crawlers... starts with 7 CP.

IS that 'ending up with less CP overall'? Why yes, yes it is. You will find that 7 is less than 9 or 12.

And as for your shot with Death Guard - cute. Nice to see you went straight for T5 Havocs and disregarded Chosen and Terminators. Someone obviously things Death Guard players are more concerned about Havocs than anything else.

Me? My concern is the fact that the list was non-sensical in what it chopped out and the fact it literally is going against every Death Guard list permitted since Index Astartes Death Guard all the way back in 3rd ed. But you find your target and take shots at it. Miss all the points for a quick jab


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 Purifier wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Madoch1 wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Actually, I'm happy that I can now take more HQ's freely.

I thought 2 HQ's was very restrictive.

Wait, was 2 all that was allowed in a battle forged list?

My friend said it was 3.

Well I might just have been passively cheating for a while.

You mean last edition? The old FoCs needs 1 HQ, 2 Troop min, and you can have a max of 2 HQ.
There's a bit more variety now.
Sadly, the traditional FOC doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Although some armies could take several HQs as one spot.

Hmm.

I know some took several HQs in one slot - Daemons with Heralds stand out as they were a 4 for 1 deal there. I know that AM had non-slot taking HQ options as well. I think Sisters did as well.

Perhaps confusion with Lords of War? When they changed half the characters to be LoW they were effectively a 3rd HQ for some armies as well.

 Nazrak wrote:

This is kind of what I was taking issue with though; it seems we're being encouraged to take a lot of HQs, and it does any seem like there are many ways to do this without flying in the face of the fluff. "Does it really hurt to take another captain?" Well not necessarily, but it's kind of goofy from a narrative perspective in most circumstances unless you're fielding well over 100 marines.

That other captain could be the captain of the first company, joining your main force along with an attaché that includes your terminators and veterans, or it could be a captain of the 10th, reviewing the performance of the scouts or a captain of any of the reserve companies.

Or still further, that captain could be, in fluff, not a captain at all, but a sub or vice captain that is one of several candidates the captain sees as a potential replacement for him, or a member of his command staff, or a particularly tactically minded veteran assisting in managing the fighting force on the ground.

Just because they're the same unit type in the index doesn't mean they absolutely need to be fluffed as peers that one inexplicably capitulates to.

If my army is Chaos marines, can i use daemon heralds for hq instead of marines?

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

This is kind of what I was taking issue with though; it seems we're being encouraged to take a lot of HQs, and it does any seem like there are many ways to do this without flying in the face of the fluff. "Does it really hurt to take another captain?" Well not necessarily, but it's kind of goofy from a narrative perspective in most circumstances unless you're fielding well over 100 marines.

That other captain could be the captain of the first company, joining your main force along with an attaché that includes your terminators and veterans, or it could be a captain of the 10th, reviewing the performance of the scouts or a captain of any of the reserve companies.

Or still further, that captain could be, in fluff, not a captain at all, but a sub or vice captain that is one of several candidates the captain sees as a potential replacement for him, or a member of his command staff, or a particularly tactically minded veteran assisting in managing the fighting force on the ground.

Just because they're the same unit type in the index doesn't mean they absolutely need to be fluffed as peers that one inexplicably capitulates to.

Oh! Or maybe your Chapter has a melee hero like a Champion for the Black Templars, and the Captain profile is the best way to represent that on the tabletop?

Or the Chapter has a "Captain apprenticeship program" that one of the Captains is not at the full rank yet, and is working with the current Captain to gain insight, perspective, and experience?

Plenty of other ways too, I'm sure

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
If my army is Chaos marines, can i use daemon heralds for hq instead of marines?

possibly if they had the same mark?

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:

This is kind of what I was taking issue with though; it seems we're being encouraged to take a lot of HQs, and it does any seem like there are many ways to do this without flying in the face of the fluff. "Does it really hurt to take another captain?" Well not necessarily, but it's kind of goofy from a narrative perspective in most circumstances unless you're fielding well over 100 marines.

That other captain could be the captain of the first company, joining your main force along with an attaché that includes your terminators and veterans, or it could be a captain of the 10th, reviewing the performance of the scouts or a captain of any of the reserve companies.

Or still further, that captain could be, in fluff, not a captain at all, but a sub or vice captain that is one of several candidates the captain sees as a potential replacement for him, or a member of his command staff, or a particularly tactically minded veteran assisting in managing the fighting force on the ground.

Just because they're the same unit type in the index doesn't mean they absolutely need to be fluffed as peers that one inexplicably capitulates to.

Oh! Or maybe your Chapter has a melee hero like a Champion for the Black Templars, and the Captain profile is the best way to represent that on the tabletop?

Or the Chapter has a "Captain apprenticeship program" that one of the Captains is not at the full rank yet, and is working with the current Captain to gain insight, perspective, and experience?

Plenty of other ways too, I'm sure

I don't really have much insight into the structure of the Space Marines, but in a normal army a captain doesn't necessarily have to have any soldiers assigned to him. He might be in charge of logistics or training, and could very well be coming along with the captain that is handling the operation for example as his second in command, even though they technically have the same rank.

Or...that "Captain, is a Liutenant that has not been promoted yet. He might be waiting for a slot to come open. SM might wait Centuries for a slot to open up.

pinecone77 wrote:
Or...that "Captain, is a Liutenant that has not been promoted yet. He might be waiting for a slot to come open. SM might wait Centuries for a slot to open up.

Yeah I saw someone dkuff for having two company masters by stats as such for dark angels, that one was a apprentice, still a tough fighter but been chosen and undergoing extra training and working under a veteran officer as a kinda advanced.

The senior was command of the mission, or acting in a watchful eye over the junior officer, moulding and grooming them for success and command when ready and a slot opens up.

I honestly use 2 Hq in every list i've written so far. The bonus they give are not easy to overlook.
So, it's not an excessive requirement, to me. It's a good slot that helps your army. I can't compare it to the 7th ed. troop tax that some datachments had.

 Nazrak wrote:

 Karoline Dianne wrote:
Since the Imperium and Chaos factions have so much overlap between their respective forces, and can now be mixed and matched freely (Guardsmen with Space Marines and a little Admech sprinkled in, in a single legal detachment), I don't see this as a problem in most cases.

For the more solo factions like Tau and Necrons, I can see things getting a little tight, but for the rest of the armies? Does it really hurt to take a second Captain, or a barebones Chaos Lord who just sits behind your gunners and glares at them when they roll 1's? If it REALLY is a dealbreaker, just bring an Inquisitor, a Herald, or whatever.

Try something silly or fun. Bring a force of Guardsmen lead by a space marine chapter master, or put a Chaos Lord on a Juggernaut at the helm of a bunch of bloodletters. Things are a bit more freeform now with how allies work, so borrow HQ's from anything you share Faction Keywords with.

This is kind of what I was taking issue with though; it seems we're being encouraged to take a lot of HQs, and it does any seem like there are many ways to do this without flying in the face of the fluff. "Does it really hurt to take another captain?" Well not necessarily, but it's kind of goofy from a narrative perspective in most circumstances unless you're fielding well over 100 marines.

luckly the sheer varity of HQs space Marines have means it's not really a problem. in 8th edition our HQs, not including characters are: Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Tech Marines, and Leuitenants.

even within a single company I could see quite easily a force where you have a captain, with a chaplain over seeing the spiritual needs of the company, while the newly arrived Primaris Leuitenant serves under the captain, learning about the chapter from him

For imperials a primaris psyker is only 40pts. There's no army that can't use a cheap smite user that fills an HQ slot.

If you want to have a fluff-friendly HQ-heavy SM army, just chuck out some Librarians, and some Captains from other Companies

BrianDavion wrote:

luckly the sheer varity of HQs space Marines have means it's not really a problem. in 8th edition our HQs, not including characters are: Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Tech Marines, and Leuitenants.

Yeah, an Ad Mech has one... it's not a bad one, but still... I wish they had given the Enginseer something more, upped his price and made him HQ. As it is, he's an elite single character unit that isn't really good at anything except standing around as a repairman for vehicles, assuming they don't move too much.

 buddha wrote:
For imperials a primaris psyker is only 40pts. There's no army that can't use a cheap smite user that fills an HQ slot.

Until they Peril and blow up everyone next to them...

 Purifier wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

luckly the sheer varity of HQs space Marines have means it's not really a problem. in 8th edition our HQs, not including characters are: Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Tech Marines, and Leuitenants.

Yeah, an Ad Mech has one... it's not a bad one, but still... I wish they had given the Enginseer something more, upped his price and made him HQ. As it is, he's an elite single character unit that isn't really good at anything except standing around as a repairman for vehicles, assuming they don't move too much.

well I was replying specificly to someone who was commenting on the narraitive akwardness of running multiple captains (something I agree with) by noting Marines at least have a few options there.
Admech is definatly problematic in that forge world doesn't offer much and I suspect there aren't many admech focused third party bits.

I look at all of the HQ slots as: So I have to take more Models that Buff my other Models...I can work with that.

for orks we have some neat HQ choices. your warboss might employ a big mek, he also might have hired a captain badrukk who seems worth the points. or snickrot might be around. boss zag even seems like a good pick too 6 attacks, 6 wounds, 12" move can advance and charge with ere we go. 2 of those 6 attacks are pk at str 12 that do not have a -1 hit , hits on a 2+ and the remaining 4 attacks are really 5 because of choppa. at str 6.

honestly zag is now my go to HQ

 Luciferian wrote:

 buddha wrote:
For imperials a primaris psyker is only 40pts. There's no army that can't use a cheap smite user that fills an HQ slot.

Until they Peril and blow up everyone next to them...

Its a 1/18 chance of happening. You have a greater chance of getting nuked by plasma.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

And as for your shot with Death Guard - cute. Nice to see you went straight for T5 Havocs and disregarded Chosen and Terminators. Someone obviously things Death Guard players are more concerned about Havocs than anything else.

Me? My concern is the fact that the list was non-sensical in what it chopped out and the fact it literally is going against every Death Guard list permitted since Index Astartes Death Guard all the way back in 3rd ed. But you find your target and take shots at it. Miss all the points for a quick jab

Well my thinking for the Death guard exclusions, is that we all know they are getting more new models.. and are likely to get one of the first new codexes....

So I can see them having replacement units within that, and maybe putting in the exclusions for now means that people on the new DG hype train don't go and spend monies on units that wont 'really' or just different when they actually get to releasing them.

I've ordered a Chaplain to make a second Dark Apostle, going to try out some Infantry blobs. Maybe each one hang out with a Chaos Lord and between them buff a bunch of units into fearless pro fighters. Throw down a Prescience every other turn, boom.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 buddha wrote:
For imperials a primaris psyker is only 40pts. There's no army that can't use a cheap smite user that fills an HQ slot.

Until they Peril and blow up everyone next to them...

Its a 1/18 chance of happening. You have a greater chance of getting nuked by plasma.

Slightly less, really. A 1/18 chance of perils absolutely, but the Primaris Psyker has 4 wounds and you take d3 from a perils so it's pretty safe to smite as long as you have at least 3 wounds. Even with 2 wounds remaining you're looking at a 1/27 chance of blowing up. For 40 points? Hell yeah. Sign me up.

Purifier wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

luckly the sheer varity of HQs space Marines have means it's not really a problem. in 8th edition our HQs, not including characters are: Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Tech Marines, and Leuitenants.

Yeah, an Ad Mech has one... it's not a bad one, but still... I wish they had given the Enginseer something more, upped his price and made him HQ. As it is, he's an elite single character unit that isn't really good at anything except standing around as a repairman for vehicles, assuming they don't move too much.

During the 'First Blood' game they had on Warhammer TV today, they showed datasheets for the Enginseer and Datasmith. Both showed an HQ skull instead of the Elite cross, so you might be in luck. From what I've picked up, it sounds like they're actually taking questions and comments from people that have seen the leaks and are using them to prepare a FAQ and errata. They're just not really... directly acknowledging the leaks, which seems fair.

 Lansirill wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

 buddha wrote:
For imperials a primaris psyker is only 40pts. There's no army that can't use a cheap smite user that fills an HQ slot.

Until they Peril and blow up everyone next to them...

Its a 1/18 chance of happening. You have a greater chance of getting nuked by plasma.

Slightly less, really. A 1/18 chance of perils absolutely, but the Primaris Psyker has 4 wounds and you take d3 from a perils so it's pretty safe to smite as long as you have at least 3 wounds. Even with 2 wounds remaining you're looking at a 1/27 chance of blowing up. For 40 points? Hell yeah. Sign me up.

Purifier wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

luckly the sheer varity of HQs space Marines have means it's not really a problem. in 8th edition our HQs, not including characters are: Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Tech Marines, and Leuitenants.

Yeah, an Ad Mech has one... it's not a bad one, but still... I wish they had given the Enginseer something more, upped his price and made him HQ. As it is, he's an elite single character unit that isn't really good at anything except standing around as a repairman for vehicles, assuming they don't move too much.

During the 'First Blood' game they had on Warhammer TV today, they showed datasheets for the Enginseer and Datasmith. Both showed an HQ skull instead of the Elite cross, so you might be in luck. From what I've picked up, it sounds like they're actually taking questions and comments from people that have seen the leaks and are using them to prepare a FAQ and errata. They're just not really... directly acknowledging the leaks, which seems fair.

Where do you leave feedback like that? Because they done goofed for a couple of the necron melee weapons.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Where do you leave feedback like that? Because they done goofed for a couple of the necron melee weapons.

You could try the Warhammer TV Facebook page maybe? They didn't say anything explicit and I may honestly have misinterpreted what they were saying, but that could work. Or you could go to the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page. I thought maybe the Warhammer Community (god I'm starting to feel like a shill) web page would have an email address on it, but I don't see one.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
If my army is Chaos marines, can i use daemon heralds for hq instead of marines?

Yes, and it is a good way to get a few extra psychic abilities. Note that there are demonic and marked units in CSM, so heralds work best with possessed, obliterators, mutilators, warp talons, and all the daemon engines. A nurgle herald can babysit nurgle daemon engines, healing them with fleshy abundance. You basically get a slightly cheaper warpsmith who also gives a strength buff. A herald of slaanesh can use hysterical frenzy to boost a unit of slaanesh possessed, plus gives them the basic strength increase.

Even without the synergy of the psychic/aura buffs, they still work if you want to add a little bit more psychic firepower to your arsenal.


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 Lansirill wrote:
During the 'First Blood' game they had on Warhammer TV today, they showed datasheets for the Enginseer and Datasmith. Both showed an HQ skull instead of the Elite cross, so you might be in luck. From what I've picked up, it sounds like they're actually taking questions and comments from people that have seen the leaks and are using them to prepare a FAQ and errata. They're just not really... directly acknowledging the leaks, which seems fair.

Huh, that's rather odd but interesting. I mean, it makes sense, why not get a little bit of extra testing and have a day one FAQ ready.

Yeah some armies doesn't feel it at all like my Genestealer cult or am but my admech really feels the pain on this one. I don't want more than one Dominus but if you want command point you more or less need a minimum of 2 of them. ( in a non-small game). I like the idea of the system but I now feel how some armies are really hampered with it while others couldn't care less.

For IG/AM, you could look at excessive "Company Commanders" as the product of high quality junior officer training. They are technically platoon commanders, but are equivalent front-line leaders to the company commander. They may not habe the planning and larger organization skills of a true company commander, but those skills aren't represented at the level of the game, anyway.

I'd have preferred more than one non-character HQ choice myself, but I'll just toss palatine around as a sub-rank for the extra cannoness or four I've got. If they'd have tossed in a jump pack on that listing I'd have three sitting around ready to build a brigade around.