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 blackmage wrote:
didn't notice demons DP has a PL of 8, btw you undersimate the big difference between fly and not.Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Any tips for Khorneys?
What useful/good with the new Dex?

bloodletters, flesh hounds skull cannons and skarbrand now are pretty nice, 20+ letters with stendard+stratagem ds and roll 3d6 to charge, rerollable, near an herald and a Dp to re roll 1's hits like trucks.

Fly is amazingly useful and the only way your keyword monster Daemon Prince will tango with anything in higher levels of buildings. It's an auto-take when available.

Khorne players (like me!) are going to be using all our CP before the game even starts lol. I'm running 3 Battalions and I'm usually down to 5-6 CP before the first turn. I'll be going lower as I deep strike in more stuff. Feels bad man, until I deep strike then IT'S A GOOD PAIN!

 andysonic1 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
didn't notice demons DP has a PL of 8, btw you undersimate the big difference between fly and not.Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Any tips for Khorneys?
What useful/good with the new Dex?

bloodletters, flesh hounds skull cannons and skarbrand now are pretty nice, 20+ letters with stendard+stratagem ds and roll 3d6 to charge, rerollable, near an herald and a Dp to re roll 1's hits like trucks.

Fly is amazingly useful and the only way your keyword monster Daemon Prince will tango with anything in higher levels of buildings. It's an auto-take when available.

Khorne players (like me!) are going to be using all our CP before the game even starts lol. I'm running 3 Battalions and I'm usually down to 5-6 CP before the first turn. I'll be going lower as I deep strike in more stuff. Feels bad man, until I deep strike then IT'S A GOOD PAIN!

I think for the most party any pure daemons or mostly daemons player will be bringing 3 battalions and using anywhere from 8-12 CP to open the game.

My current list burning anywhere from 7 to 12 cp on the first turn depending on opponents for relics and deep strike. Just because our relics are soooo awesome

mmimzie wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
didn't notice demons DP has a PL of 8, btw you undersimate the big difference between fly and not.Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Any tips for Khorneys?
What useful/good with the new Dex?

bloodletters, flesh hounds skull cannons and skarbrand now are pretty nice, 20+ letters with stendard+stratagem ds and roll 3d6 to charge, rerollable, near an herald and a Dp to re roll 1's hits like trucks.

Fly is amazingly useful and the only way your keyword monster Daemon Prince will tango with anything in higher levels of buildings. It's an auto-take when available.

Khorne players (like me!) are going to be using all our CP before the game even starts lol. I'm running 3 Battalions and I'm usually down to 5-6 CP before the first turn. I'll be going lower as I deep strike in more stuff. Feels bad man, until I deep strike then IT'S A GOOD PAIN!

I think for the most party any pure daemons or mostly daemons player will be bringing 3 battalions and using anywhere from 8-12 CP to open the game.

My current list burning anywhere from 7 to 12 cp on the first turn depending on opponents for relics and deep strike. Just because our relics are soooo awesome

Yeah the Frontline Gaming guys were saying Chaos players are kind of meant to blow all their CP in giant bursts that overwhelm the opponent.

yes seems like 3 battalions is the good way to go, afraid in some tournaments they wont let you replicate detachement so no 3 battalions, you will need a brigade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
didn't notice demons DP has a PL of 8, btw you undersimate the big difference between fly and not.Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Any tips for Khorneys?
What useful/good with the new Dex?

bloodletters, flesh hounds skull cannons and skarbrand now are pretty nice, 20+ letters with stendard+stratagem ds and roll 3d6 to charge, rerollable, near an herald and a Dp to re roll 1's hits like trucks.

Fly is amazingly useful and the only way your keyword monster Daemon Prince will tango with anything in higher levels of buildings. It's an auto-take when available.

Khorne players (like me!) are going to be using all our CP before the game even starts lol. I'm running 3 Battalions and I'm usually down to 5-6 CP before the first turn. I'll be going lower as I deep strike in more stuff. Feels bad man, until I deep strike then IT'S A GOOD PAIN!

is that one and (funny to see a Dp looking at that scouts controlling an obj on 2nd 3rd floor of a building, laughing at u) ,u can fly over those annoying screening units and charge something worth than 20 poxwalkers or 20 cultists or imperial guards.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
didn't notice demons DP has a PL of 8, btw you undersimate the big difference between fly and not.Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Any tips for Khorneys?
What useful/good with the new Dex?

bloodletters, flesh hounds skull cannons and skarbrand now are pretty nice, 20+ letters with stendard+stratagem ds and roll 3d6 to charge, rerollable, near an herald and a Dp to re roll 1's hits like trucks.

Fly is amazingly useful and the only way your keyword monster Daemon Prince will tango with anything in higher levels of buildings. It's an auto-take when available.

Khorne players (like me!) are going to be using all our CP before the game even starts lol. I'm running 3 Battalions and I'm usually down to 5-6 CP before the first turn. I'll be going lower as I deep strike in more stuff. Feels bad man, until I deep strike then IT'S A GOOD PAIN!

While I am multi god, not mono khorne I use an intense amount of CP. My list is has a total of 15 CP, i use 13 before the first turn. Similarly I have 20 units, 9 start in Deepstrike.

Ecdain wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
didn't notice demons DP has a PL of 8, btw you undersimate the big difference between fly and not.Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Any tips for Khorneys?
What useful/good with the new Dex?

bloodletters, flesh hounds skull cannons and skarbrand now are pretty nice, 20+ letters with stendard+stratagem ds and roll 3d6 to charge, rerollable, near an herald and a Dp to re roll 1's hits like trucks.

Fly is amazingly useful and the only way your keyword monster Daemon Prince will tango with anything in higher levels of buildings. It's an auto-take when available.

Khorne players (like me!) are going to be using all our CP before the game even starts lol. I'm running 3 Battalions and I'm usually down to 5-6 CP before the first turn. I'll be going lower as I deep strike in more stuff. Feels bad man, until I deep strike then IT'S A GOOD PAIN!

While I am multi god, not mono khorne I use an intense amount of CP. My list is has a total of 15 CP, i use 13 before the first turn. Similarly I have 20 units, 9 start in Deepstrike.

Care to share this list? It sounds like you made a Brigade.

Will be adding some Khorne for BL bombing to my Tzeentch army.

Considering what the ideal bloodletter bomb is, probably will also be DSing in some Pinks/flamers for screen clearing.

20BL + skulltaker?
30BL?
Get a DP in the mix as well? It gets CP thirsty quick!

So would you take a mono Tzeentch Battalion/Brigade or mix with other Gods? The question arises, because I am not certain you will really need the Locus of Trickery.
It could be handy with a LoC or a Demon Prince, but the other units might not need it.

 knas wrote:
Will be adding some Khorne for BL bombing to my Tzeentch army.

Considering what the ideal bloodletter bomb is, probably will also be DSing in some Pinks/flamers for screen clearing.

20BL + skulltaker?
30BL?
Get a DP in the mix as well? It gets CP thirsty quick!

My 2 cents about this? Just one squad of 20 BL. Costs just 1 CP to deepstrike in, and maybe 1 more CP to ensure that with a 3d6 charge, it will make it into combat. My reasoning? These days, if you are playing an opponent who knows what he is doing, you will be facing a first line of chaff or bubblewrap. And the whole point about bubblewrap is that they are expendable, and they are cheap.

30 BL plus icon plus instrument costs 235 points. a 40 man cultists squad costs 160 points. Your BL squad is going to die after they destroy the bubblewrap the charge. Its unavoidable because they would be within charge and shooting range of the entire opponent's army. The point is that they clear the chaff, and force the opponent to waste time and resources to deal with them while the rest of your army then goes in to take care of him!

Spending too many points on heralds, 30 BL, just costs even more command points and in the end, you are still just using it to destroy one or two bubble wrapped squads.

30 BL will still die when faced against the opponent's entire army. and I think 30 BL plus a herald might be abit of an overkill against just cheap bubblewrap. That initial strike isn't going to win the game all by itself (unless your opponent is a newbie who doesn't know how to bubblewrap). Its about what you use as the second and third wave after that.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 knas wrote:
Will be adding some Khorne for BL bombing to my Tzeentch army.

Considering what the ideal bloodletter bomb is, probably will also be DSing in some Pinks/flamers for screen clearing.

20BL + skulltaker?
30BL?
Get a DP in the mix as well? It gets CP thirsty quick!

My 2 cents about this? Just one squad of 20 BL. Costs just 1 CP to deepstrike in, and maybe 1 more CP to ensure that with a 3d6 charge, it will make it into combat. My reasoning? These days, if you are playing an opponent who knows what he is doing, you will be facing a first line of chaff or bubblewrap. And the whole point about bubblewrap is that they are expendable, and they are cheap.

30 BL plus icon plus instrument costs 235 points. a 40 man cultists squad costs 160 points. Your BL squad is going to die after they destroy the bubblewrap the charge. Its unavoidable because they would be within charge and shooting range of the entire opponent's army. The point is that they clear the chaff, and force the opponent to waste time and resources to deal with them while the rest of your army then goes in to take care of him!

Spending too many points on heralds, 30 BL, just costs even more command points and in the end, you are still just using it to destroy one or two bubble wrapped squads.

30 BL will still die when faced against the opponent's entire army. and I think 30 BL plus a herald might be abit of an overkill against just cheap bubblewrap. That initial strike isn't going to win the game all by itself (unless your opponent is a newbie who doesn't know how to bubblewrap). Its about what you use as the second and third wave after that.

If you just want to destroy a screen, it might be better to just deep strike Pink Horrors or Flamers and shoot them. I think the reasoning behind Bloodletters is tying up a big part of the army. Otherwise I tend to agree with you.

Two waves of Bloodletters also solves that issue. The first wave removes the chaff turn one, and the second wave hits the important stuff behind the turn after. In a perfect world anyway.

Time to make it even more complicated!

Above is 3 units of 20 Bloodletters with 1 Herald at the front, all deep striking in front of the enemy. The green circle is your 6 inch aura range, and the blue circle is your 8 inch aura range (all approximations, but fairly close to reality). This is what I was looking at running, and even if the Herald doesn't make it into combat everyone should be able to stay within aura range as long as you don't lose too man to overwatch. Now if your Herald does make it into combat, you'll easily keep aura range, but worst case you should be fine.

3x20 Bloodletters + Icon (banner of blood) + Instrument + Herald (Crimson Crown, Rage Incarnate, Locus, Strength Buff) = 550~ points and 7CP. The Super Herald might be a liiiiiittle overkill just to clear a screen, but boy howdy will that screen be dead. And then, if your Herald make is through the incoming firepower, it's a perfect beacon for the rest of your army to rally around.

Edit: this split up into two waves is much better. 20-30 BL in the first wave, 2x20 BL plus Super Herald in the second wave.

I plan on trying a 30 bl with skulltaker on Sunday, with a 10 pink horror as well in deep strike. Pinks go first turn to clear the chaff and bloodletters then charge or wait until turn 2 to deploy / charge depending on enemy deployment. I think that's going to be the "bomb" going forward for my list.

You don't need so many BL in your first wave. Put more BL and the herald in your second wave.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You don't need so many BL in your first wave. Put more BL and the herald in your second wave.

I agree, 20-30 BL in the first wave, 2x20 BL plus Super Herald in the second wave.

One thing to be mindful of is overwatch. If you drop 20x BLs and one dies, you don't get the +1 to hit. I would take a couple extra just for a buffer.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
One thing to be mindful of is overwatch. If you drop 20x BLs and one dies, you don't get the +1 to hit. I would take a couple extra just for a buffer.

Same reason to take 25-30 Plague Bearers in a unit as well to keep that -1 to hit for as long as possible

For sure. I guess the "safest" unit to deploy only 20 is Pink Horrors since they can shoot before they get shot at in some capacity. Plus those huge units are relatively cheap while still being something the enemy can't ignore. #shootthesmallones

 anticitizen013 wrote:
One thing to be mindful of is overwatch. If you drop 20x BLs and one dies, you don't get the +1 to hit. I would take a couple extra just for a buffer.

The only issue with that is that even if its 21 or 22 BL, that brings up the cost to deep strike to 2 CP. I suppose it depends on your army detachments and how they work. But Daemons and CSM can do alot of stuff with cp, and we will surely run out of them (possibly even by turn 2 if we are super aggressive in using them). So, I don't know if its worth it to spend that extra 1 more CP just for 2 or 3 more BL.

That's a good point too. I suppose it really depends on the rest of the army composition and if you can spare the CP.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
For sure. I guess the "safest" unit to deploy only 20 is Pink Horrors since they can shoot before they get shot at in some capacity. Plus those huge units are relatively cheap while still being something the enemy can't ignore. #shootthesmallones

this is true though all the space m,arine armies, eldar, and tau ahve ways of shooting deep strikers



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I fdont think running lots of deep strikers will work out too well. If it gets good enough it's not too much of a stretch to build armies that stop it. that said a fair amount of of deep striking mixed in with boots on the ground and scouts would be a more solid list that's harder to straight up counter.

You could always use a Skulltaker if you take smaller units of bloodletters to get the +1 to hit. Not sure what scenario that is useful for...

The bloodletter bomb is obviously scary, but I see some pretty good reasons to use smaller squads with a skulltaker. I see it as a way of not committing 210pts to a kind of ridiculous amount of damage, and obviously a better way of filling troop slots if you aren't going mono-khorne but want the extra 2 cp from a battalion. A 10 man squad of BLs (benefiting from unstoppable ferocity and a skulltaker) kills 9.6 SMurfs, 11.6 guardsmen, and does 5.7 damage to a Leman Russ.

I'm not saying 10 man squads is the way to go- because even if you deepstrike you want to have some buffer from overwatch- but it's worth talking about subbing in the skulltaker for large squads. Thoughts?

20 is prolly the best number to go. Sure you may lose a few to overwatch and lose the +1 to hit, but chances are you are also charging chaff where you don't need that extra power to clear a path through them. The point of that first drop of 20 is to clear out the chaff, the next drops should be the ones buffed by Heralds and maybe even Skulltaker. THOSE are the heavy hitters that will plink down titans. It's better to drop more for less than more for more, IMO. 30 Bloodletters are going to drop as easy as 20 due to moral.

I still see no reason to take letters to clear screen when pinks exist...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I still see no reason to take letters to clear screen when pinks exist...

i agree completely. Pinks are more durable for the same price. They'll clear most screen just as well as blood letters will, and can do it reliably for 1 CP with out fear of failing a charge or losing models to over watch.

remember blood letters are basicly IG infantry that cost almost twice as much a guy durability wise. They'll all be in rapid fire range when clearing chaffe.

I'd keep my blood letters at 30 so you can try to tie untis up in combat to keep your blood letters safe from enemy shotoing.

Was surprised by how effective a 10 unit of BL can be when they killed an Avatar of Khaine on their charge round. And of course Tzeentch is the way to go for clearing screens.

Hi
What is best when spaming pink horrors, is it to use squad sizes of 20 or 30, assuming you want to deep strike them?
30 man has obvious reason that they can take more damage before they degrade, but 20 man is more point efficient then it comes to CP. smaller squads makes more detachments that in terns gives more CP.
Of course the FLICKERING FLAMES magic works better with 30 man squads, but does people use this magic anyway?

20 Pink Horrors will do about 10 damage against GEQ units and 13 damage against them with flickering flames.
So it will not be enough to clear 20+ units probably, if they are immun to moral. Otherwise it should be enough.

When playing CSM/Khorne, is having a few units of Letters and a couple units of Zerkers redundent? Or do they each have their own respective uses in CC?

 Astmeister wrote:
20 Pink Horrors will do about 10 damage against GEQ units and 13 damage against them with flickering flames.
So it will not be enough to clear 20+ units probably, if they are immun to moral. Otherwise it should be enough.

If you don't have a disc herald on the field who can zoom over to give your DS Horrors +1S and cast Flickering Flames on them, then woe is you! The damage output for 30 horrors under those conditions is dramatically higher than you've stated I think:

90 Shots @BS4+ =

45 Wounds @3+ (+1) =

37.5 armour saves @5+ =

An average of 25 dead GEQ from the 30-Horror alpha, or 16.7 from a 20-Horror. They clock in at nearly 1 dead GEQ per model... It's legit.