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Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






 kodos wrote:
the SM Sergeant is the equivalent of the standard Pack Leader (there is no veteran sergeant upgrade for vanilla marines)
yes, a Blood Claw Pack Leader cost the same points as a normal Blood Claw

the problem with Wolfguard Pack Leader is:
if they cost like regular models of the unit and have not their own entry, they also have the same keywords as the unit
which makes no sense that a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has the Bloodclaw keyword instead of Wolfguard (and would not count as WG for the BC forst assault special rule)

if they count as Wolfguard and have the Wolfguard keyword from the WG entry, you cannot use the Bloodclaw points as WG have their own.


Its so they don't stop the unit getting Blood Claw specific things like Wulfen auras at 12 inches and Lukas' bonuses.
If one model of the squad doesn't get re-rolls on their charges, none of them do. As for the cost I'd just cough up standard Wolf Guard costs to keep myself feeling honest.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

I expect it that way
a Wolf Guard in the unit prevents them from "silly" charging everything in 12", but therefore also have them under control regarding the influence of Wulfen or Lukas.

The same it is for Wolf Scouts, the WGPL does not have his own keywords, but is also not allowed to get a camo cloak.

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

It's the same in every codex, unless the sergeant is explicitly stated (e.g. WGPL in TDA), he costs as much as a standard member of the squad. It's only a 2-3 point difference with Wolves though. Orks get a Boss Nob for the price of a Boy and there's a 11 point difference. Go figure. Guess they'll FAQ it soon enough because it's a bit confusing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/17 16:26:02


7000+
3500
2000 
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut




Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How are we going to beat Tau? They seem really OP.

Consider this:

Wolf lord is 74 points: M6, WS 2+, BS 2+, S4, T4, W5, A4, LD9, +3 save, aura.

Tau Commander is 76 points: M8, WS 2+, BS 3+, S5, T5, W6, A4, LD9, +3 save, adaptable aura AND deepstrike. Possible loadout includes 4 meltaguns with 18" range for a total of 160 points. This means they get improved dmg roll on the turn they deepstrike (2 dices, highest roll counts), with re-rollable to hit.

When charging them, they can overwatch with two units if they're within 6".

They're going to annihilate every vehicle on turn 1, bringing 3+ Tau Commanders.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/17 17:12:24


 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator





Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How are we going to beat Tau? They seem really OP.

Consider this:

Wolf lord is 74 points: M6, WS 2+, BS 2+, S4, T4, W5, A4, LD9, +3 save, aura.

Tau Commander is 76 points: M8, WS 2+, BS 3+, S5, T5, W6, A4, LD9, +3 save, adaptable aura AND deepstrike. Possible loadout includes 4 meltaguns with 18" range for a total of 160 points. This means they get improved dmg roll on the turn they deepstrike (2 dices, highest roll counts), with re-rollable to hit.

When charging them, they can overwatch with two units if they're within 6".

They're going to annihilate every vehicle on turn 1, bringing 3+ Tau Commanders.


How are they getting the improved damage. They have to set up more than 9" away and half range is than 9" or less. The 9" restriction is there for everyone in order to mess with flamers, charges, weapons that shoot better from half range, etc. Furthermore, even with the improved role, a melta shot only has a 50% chance to wound a T8 vehicle and does an average of 4.5 damage with the improved role. An average of 4.5 (I'm treating them as auto hit even though they're 97% only.) isn't wiping out any tanks. Heck, their average damage to a Rhino (or other T7) in that situation is still only 6 points (or 4.6666 if you didn't let them cheat). It's not that different from any other army that can deep-strike melta, though I guess somewhat cheaper and more accurate.
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut




 kodos wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


P198 in my rulebook is the "ambush" scenario? Maybe i'm missing something, i don't have a physical copy yet. Anyway, if that's the case, then WG are a must in a BC unit. +1 BS, +1 A, +1 LD with better wargear options and making the headstrong. All for the price of your regular BC! Seems like he does have similar keywords as the units, in any case - the ruling for the BC 1+ on charge is "all models in this unit", so he does get the bonus.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

Northern85Star wrote:
 kodos wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


P198 in my rulebook is the "ambush" scenario? .


should have been more clear that Index 1 is Index: Imperium 1, not the rulebook

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut




Mavnas wrote:

How are they getting the improved damage. They have to set up more than 9" away and half range is than 9" or less. The 9" restriction is there for everyone in order to mess with flamers, charges, weapons that shoot better from half range, etc. Furthermore, even with the improved role, a melta shot only has a 50% chance to wound a T8 vehicle and does an average of 4.5 damage with the improved role. An average of 4.5 (I'm treating them as auto hit even though they're 97% only.) isn't wiping out any tanks. Heck, their average damage to a Rhino (or other T7) in that situation is still only 6 points (or 4.6666 if you didn't let them cheat). It's not that different from any other army that can deep-strike melta, though I guess somewhat cheaper and more accurate.


You're correct, they don't get the improved damage roll. Still, consider 4 tau commanders with 4 multimeltas (about 650 pts). Add in a longstrike with BS 2+, Str10 with +1 mod, -4 ap and D6 dmg. That's +2/+2 for D6 dmg to your land raider. That's an average of 21.5 wounds on T8 tanks on turn one. And unlike terminators, they have a 26"+D6 range on their meltas (movement + advance + shooting range, no penalties to hit due to aura), so deepstriking on a single target is viable, without the risk of leaving them useless in coming turns. That's about 900 pts of Tau with the longstrike.

Maybe i'm being dramatic, but it seems insanely powerful against everything due to the fall back rule, and that each commander is his own unit (charge one model, 2 models fire overwatch - next turn, Tau falls back and fires with remaining 3 models).
   
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I mean sure, but that's half their army being dedicated to anti-tank. How many lascannons could you field for 900 points; they would make a mess of a land-raider too?
   
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Sooo. Last night, Bjorn killed 2 of my hive tyrants and 2 carnifex. A) Very different edition. B) Bjorn is a beast.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

what weapons were used?

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






Northern85Star wrote:
Mavnas wrote:

How are they getting the improved damage. They have to set up more than 9" away and half range is than 9" or less. The 9" restriction is there for everyone in order to mess with flamers, charges, weapons that shoot better from half range, etc. Furthermore, even with the improved role, a melta shot only has a 50% chance to wound a T8 vehicle and does an average of 4.5 damage with the improved role. An average of 4.5 (I'm treating them as auto hit even though they're 97% only.) isn't wiping out any tanks. Heck, their average damage to a Rhino (or other T7) in that situation is still only 6 points (or 4.6666 if you didn't let them cheat). It's not that different from any other army that can deep-strike melta, though I guess somewhat cheaper and more accurate.


You're correct, they don't get the improved damage roll. Still, consider 4 tau commanders with 4 multimeltas (about 650 pts). Add in a longstrike with BS 2+, Str10 with +1 mod, -4 ap and D6 dmg. That's +2/+2 for D6 dmg to your land raider. That's an average of 21.5 wounds on T8 tanks on turn one. And unlike terminators, they have a 26"+D6 range on their meltas (movement + advance + shooting range, no penalties to hit due to aura), so deepstriking on a single target is viable, without the risk of leaving them useless in coming turns. That's about 900 pts of Tau with the longstrike.

Maybe i'm being dramatic, but it seems insanely powerful against everything due to the fall back rule, and that each commander is his own unit (charge one model, 2 models fire overwatch - next turn, Tau falls back and fires with remaining 3 models).


Try telling the Tyrannids that the nine inch rule matters, there's nice big MCs lovingly referred to as Pyrovores that can be monster dropped just outside of nine inches and drop a ten inch flamer round on the enemy.

As for T'au I think Guard and Nid armies will change them - the loss of template and shot for shot efficiency means T'au players can't just invest in marker drones and MCs anymore, they gotta balance those things against what hoard armies bring to the table in a newer way. I haven't had more than a browse over the Xenos bookies but personally I'm expecting successful T'au lists to be more aggressive on deepstrike tactics rather than sit back and shoot gunline style.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 kodos wrote:
the SM Sergeant is the equivalent of the standard Pack Leader (there is no veteran sergeant upgrade for vanilla marines)
yes, a Blood Claw Pack Leader cost the same points as a normal Blood Claw

the problem with Wolfguard Pack Leader is:
if they cost like regular models of the unit and have not their own entry, they also have the same keywords as the unit
which makes no sense that a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has the Bloodclaw keyword instead of Wolfguard (and would not count as WG for the BC forst assault special rule)

if they count as Wolfguard and have the Wolfguard keyword from the WG entry, you cannot use the Bloodclaw points as WG have their own.


I think you could consider it to make sense in that the other WGPLs are busy commanding their own squads, so only the non pack leader ones can control other squads of blood claws.

And in actual gameplay it works fine. Just always take a WGPL since he doesn't cost more than a regular blood claw. The only time this really effects anything is if you wanted to take 5 man squads, as it forces you to bring a 6th guy as the WGPL. I see this as more of an issue for grey hunters than blood claws, since GH tend to want smaller combi-weapon + special weapon units and BC like larger melee focused units.
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut




This is my take so far on a 2000 pts list.

Battalion detachment, +3 CP:

WGBL on thunderwolf: SS, thunderhammer

Wof priest on bike: plasmapistol

3 x 5 BC + WGPL w/ frost sword and plasma pistol.
BCPL w/ powersword

3 x TWC: frost sword, SS

2 x razorback w/ twin-las
1 x razorback w/ twin-assault cannon


Vanguard detachment, +1 CP:

WL w/ TDA: chainfist, combi-plasma

WGBL w/ TDA: SS, thunderhammer

7 x WG w/ TDA.
WGPL with thunderhammer and SS.
1 x frost sword and SS ("meat shield").
4 x combi-plasma and frost sword.
1 x assault cannon and frost sword.

Venerable dreadnought w/ FGA and Blizz shield.

5 wolf scouts w/ meltagun + WGBL w/ combi-melta.


Strat:

Razorbacks with BCs go with the dread.

Thunderwolfs with WGBL and wolf priest tries to absorb firepower, since the enemy must kill a model or have it restore its wounds.

Wolf scouts to take on heavy artillery that's placed far from other models, alternatively help our terminators.

Terminators with WL and WGBL for a heavy hit, preferably on the opposite flank of the TWC. With this setup they get to re-roll 1s on both to hit and to wound, while the enemy has to go through four 2+/3++ wounds before taking down it's firepower. They don't have meltas to take advantage of the re-roll, and to give them range of fire - i excect to take down, or tie up, heavy vehicles in CC, since i have 3 attempts to get the 9" charge after deepstriking.


Doubts:

Wolf scouts. Are the meltas worth it in such a squishy unit? Should they be geared towards anti-infantry instead? Maybe they're better used tieing up heavy artillery in CC?

Terminators. Should they have meltas instead or are the range too poor for them?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 11:00:07


 
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

Northern85Star wrote:
This is my take so far on a 2000 pts list.Doubts:

Wolf scouts. Are the meltas worth it in such a squishy unit? Should they be geared towards anti-infantry instead? Maybe they're better used tieing up heavy artillery in CC?

Terminators. Should they have meltas instead or are the range too poor for them?

Yes Melta is a good choice, especially with the Combi-Melta. It is the load out of the rest of the Pack you need to look at.
You can take 2 (3 if you want to give one to the Wolf Guard Pack Leader) Plasma Pistols
Take Shotguns, with the Melta you don't need range and if you can get the Shotguns to 6" (Like what you want with the Melta) You are now wounding most vehicles on a 5+ and that is also the optimal range for Krak Grenades.

A quick rundown, Come out from the edge of the table, pop your target with Two Melta Shots, 2 Plasma Pistols (Possibly on Not-So-Safe-Mode) and 12 Shotgun Blast. Then when you get the chance get within 2"-6" with the Melta, now S5 Shotgun Blast, Plasma Pistols and a Krak Grenade. You can also Advance if you need to as the Shot Guns and Melta are all Assault Weapons.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
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Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

If I made no mistake a Plasma and Melta load out do the same amount of damage (with overcharged Plasma)

2 Plasma Pistols + 1 Plasma Gun and 1 KombiPlasma VS 2 PP+ Melter + Kombimelter
bot are about the same damge, Melter cost 8 points more and Plasma is better against units with 2 wounds

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 kodos wrote:
Northern85Star wrote:
Since a WGPL w/ TDA costs the same as a WG w/ TDA, logically a WGPL would gost the same as a WG.


I am just an Idiot.
Just looked on the point list and missed an important side note
p 198 Index 1, except WGPL in TDA all unit champions cost the same as other models

still the question if they have the Wolfguard keyword


Awesome catch! Thanks! Still gotta figure out the cost of Ragnar's wolves in there somewhere too.
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






Ragnar can take furry bodyguards?

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

yes

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Georgia

So, to talk actual tactics, what are the opinions on force composition fir a tournament environment? To me, it looks like we need to prepare for mass razorback spam, Taurox Prime/scion spam, tyranid/ork/IG hordes (likely immune to battle shock), 3+ Knights, khorne berserker rhino rush, and tau commander spam.

It seems like a tall order to prepare a list that can counter all of that. I'm thinking one, maybe two packs of long fangs with missile launchers for versatility, one or two dedicated assault units, mobility for objective grabs, and some screening units to absorb T1 charges. I've played a couple of games against Orks with 180+ boyz and 4 Knights and it isn't pretty.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




crouching lictor wrote:
So, to talk actual tactics, what are the opinions on force composition fir a tournament environment? To me, it looks like we need to prepare for mass razorback spam, Taurox Prime/scion spam, tyranid/ork/IG hordes (likely immune to battle shock), 3+ Knights, khorne berserker rhino rush, and tau commander spam.

It seems like a tall order to prepare a list that can counter all of that. I'm thinking one, maybe two packs of long fangs with missile launchers for versatility, one or two dedicated assault units, mobility for objective grabs, and some screening units to absorb T1 charges. I've played a couple of games against Orks with 180+ boyz and 4 Knights and it isn't pretty.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.


I think the answer, if there is one, has to be found in the things that make space wolves different than regular / other marines. It's definitely possible that without a codex space wolves aren't top tier right now, but I still have hope for them looking at their options so far. The things that have stuck out to me so far are:

Wolf Priests: An interesting combination of Chaplain and Apothecary, these seem like a good choice if you are bringing TWC, Wulfen, or any other multi-wound melee focused unit (Wolf guard terminators or bikes, i suppose). They can't bring models back, but they can help mitigate some damage and give melee units in 6" a significant damage boost.
Wolf Claws: for the same cost as a Lightning Claw, the Wolf Claw is simply better (it has +1S). This makes Space Wolves the ability to be better in combat than other marines for the same price. For a slightly higher price, the frost axe and frost sword are also better than the Non-Space Wolves power weapons. These weapons are all fairly cheap and shouldn't be overlooked.
Rune Priests: Although they can only know one Space Wolf power, our Psykers are cheaper than normal space marines, and out powers are all very good. A 6" bubble of cover (+1 to armor save) is great, and so is making an enemy unit subtract 1 from their hit rolls.
Wolf Guard Battle Leaders: These are probably my favorite Space Wolf HQ, since they are very cheap, provide a great aura (re-roll 1s to wound), and have lots of options for how to run them (jump pack, bike, TWC, etc), unlike the Primaris Lieutenant for the Space Marines, or the terminator anchient for the blood angels (their sources of re-rolling wounds). You can either keep them cheap at 60 points and keep them with your long fangs and other fire support, or give them a wolf claw etc and have them go out with your forward troops. Pairing this with a Wolf Lord gives everything in 6" rerolls of 1 to hit and wound, which is pretty strong.
Blood Claws: 13 points per model and 3 attacks on the charge make these some of the cheapest and hardest hitting melee marines in the game. I think the way to run them is in Rhinos. If you have Wulfen around them, they get even scarier. They definitely have some weaknesses, namely their bad BS4+, but giving them flamers can mostly fix this.
TWC: Pretty good beatstick units, and reasonably fast. I think Wolf Claws and storm shields are probably the way to go on them.
Wulfen: Pretty scary by themselves, and they make blood claws terrifying.
Long Fangs: their ability to re-roll 1s to hit vs one target in shooting is pretty great. I plan to combo them with a WGBL to give them rerolling 1s to wound too. I think i like missile launchers on them the most as they are very versatile.
Wolf Guard Bikes: I think these can be good with storm bolters (4-8 shots is pretty fun for 4 points), and a few power weapons and combi-weapons.
Wolf Guard Terminators: These can be cheaper than SM terminators if you take a mix of power weapons, and hit pretty hard. Again i like them with some storm bolters for tons of shots.
Wolf Scouts: Cheap, and their behind enemy lines lets them force the enemy to deploy to avoid them, or hit something valuable with a few special weapons.

Then of course we also get the good things that all marines get:

Pedators (las cannons i think are best)
Landspeeders (probably with heavy flamers)
Dreads (we have shooty and better melee ones)
Razorbacks (i like assault cannon and las/plas, personally)

I think that using the cool space wolves things we have, plus the classic SM options, we will be able to do okay this edition, and hopefully it wont be long before we get a codex to help boost us some more.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Georgia

I agree with pretty much everything you stated. I don't know that we can build a true TAC style list in 8th. This edition is very Rock-paper-scissors like.

I might try something like bjorn, 2 blood claw packs, supported by missile toting long fangs and some wolf guard bikers. If I take an imperial soup approach I'd add in some conscripts with commissar and junior officer and a vindicaire.

I also agree that it's early on in the life of this edition and that hopefully our codex gives us a boost. For now though, our damage output does not seem sufficient nor points efficient.

Here's the base of what I'm considering...

SW Battalion (+3CP)

HQ
Bjorn, helfrost cannon (+1CP)

Elite
Lukas the Trickster
5 Wolf Guard Bikers, 5 storm bolters, 5 storm shields, 1 thunder hammer, 4 chainswords

Troops
13 Blood Claws, 2 flamers, +BCPL w/power axe, +WGPL w/wolf claw, combi-plasma
13 Blood Claws, 2 flamers, +BCPL w/power axe, +WGPL w/wolf claw, combi-plasma
5 Grey Hunters, plasma gun, plasma pistol, +GHPL w/power sword, Razorback w/twin assault cannons

Heavy Support
5 Long Fangs, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers
5 Long Fangs, 2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers

This leaves me with 353 points to spend. I'm thinking of three options: (1) a combi plasma wolf guard bike pack; (2) a combi plasma wolf guard jump pack; (3) wulfen kitted out for heavy melee. I'd probably have enough points left over for a wolf scout pack or a vindicaire as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 03:52:48


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




crouching lictor wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything you stated. I don't know that we can build a true TAC style list in 8th. This edition is very Rock-paper-scissors like.

I might try something like bjorn, 2 blood claw packs, supported by missile toting long fangs and some wolf guard bikers. If I take an imperial soup approach I'd add in some conscripts with commissar and junior officer and a vindicaire.

I also agree that it's early on in the life of this edition and that hopefully our codex gives us a boost. For now though, our damage output does not seem sufficient nor points efficient.


Typically lists are very rock paper scissorsy at first, but then people have to start balancing their lists more of they don't want to auto lose 1/3 of the time, and some kind of meta evolves. It's probably too early to see what that is yet. Hopefully the codexes are released quickly and close together so we can have a good idea what is going on without the constant new releases confusing things.

I think 2-3 squads of blood claws in rhinos backed by shooting elements and maybe accompanied by Wulfen or TWC will fair well against most typical lists. SW can also do razor back spam pretty well with cheap scouts and acolytes inside, with some points left over for either an assault element or more shooting. If the goal is a gunline, SW can actually do it quite well with dreads, long fangs, and razorbacks, with WGBLs and Wolf Lords giving them cheap rerolls.

I'd also be interested in seeing how a list with 60 or so blood claws in rhinos plus some anti tank shooting would do. In my experience 10 charging blood claws with flamers and a wolf claw and power sword kill pretty much any infantry unit so it's mostly a matter of getting close and getting the charges off first.

I think SW can fight vehicle spam and hordes pretty well. I'm not too sure how great they are vs knights, but im also not too sure we'll see much of that after the first few months, as i think there will be hard counters for it, and they will have a hard time holding objectives etc so we'll just have to play the missions.

Either way i am optimistic that SW will at least be middle of the pack when it comes to being a good army, codexes should help a lot, and ideally GW will care and tweak things as needed if they are not strong enough.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

Already hoping for a Codex is not a good idea
maybe we are in the new Marine Codex or just a Supplement for it or our Codex takes 4 years until it arrives.

Regarding a tournament list, I see more than one (more like 3-4) concept being viable.
I just don't see it working if you take one from everything that looks good on paper, like 1 unit of Wulfen with 1 unit of Claws, 1 Dread, etc.
the one thing I need to figure out now is what unit is best for which weapon per point cost.
Like Heavy Flamers in Speeders or AC on Razorbacks, but it comes to Jump Packs in Guard VS Sky Claws, Guard in Bikes with Combi-Melta VS Long Fangs with MultiMelta.

Some "extreme" concepts I want to test (that I see working in theory).

Blood Claw Spam: MMU (multiple max. units), 3+ units of Claws, 2 units of Wulfen, 2 of both Priests, WGBL, 2xScouts, fill the points with Landspeeder (flamer) and Laser (Long Fangs or Preds)

Dread Spam:
Bjorn (Plasma), Iron Priest, Murderfang, 2+ Dreds with Axe, 2+ Dreads with 2 Autocannons, 2 Dreads with Laser+Wolf Claw

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in au
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought






My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
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Inside Yvraine

I really enjoy how much plasma you can pack into a list. Grey Hunters having access to up to four plasma weapons is pretty nice, especially if you can get them in range of a reroll for the dank overcharge.
   
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.

 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Georgia

 Blackie wrote:
How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.

Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/20 13:41:08


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spoiler:
crouching lictor wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
How would you run a big unit of Blood Claws? I haven't tried my SW yet since they're my third army and I've read the codex only a moment ago, but I'm preparing them to battle

I'd like to try the max unit on foot with Lukas and Ulrik the Slayer. I also wanted to field the stormwolf and embark them on it but the flyer has become awfully expensive and I wonder if it worths the points sink now.


Lukas + Ulrik and Blood Claws supported by Wulfen is a pretty potent combo but very expensive. I feel that if you're going to put all of those elements into a list, then that becomes the theme of the list with perhaps some heavy support to kill the tougher enemy units.

Stormwolves are risky. I have two of them but I very rarely ever use them as they tend to crash and burn too often. I haven't used them in 8th yet because their hideously expensive but I might try one out as a delivery system soon. Since flyers can start on the board now you could pack them two of them with some powerful units and reduce the number of drops you have to secure first turn. The extra mobility will allow you to concentrate on one portion of the enemy line and bring your assault to bear on T2. Might be viable...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dakka Wolf wrote:
My Space Wolves in 8th - a grand total of five games to date - tend to revolve around Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts, I'm still toying with things like TWC and Wulfen, I seem to be playing a game that only Necrons played in 7th, a core of footslogging troops, couple of toys and a couple of reserve tricks - the Space Wolves have a unique and truly nasty DreadStar if you know your mutts, I've only had two games with it but so far it's been hated by both opponents and spectators.


How are your footsloggers fairing? I have had some pretty poor luck with mine as they tend to get shot up as they cross the board. I usually include a Rune Priest for the cover power but that really only benefits one pack in matched play.


I can't imagine a stormwolf with Ulric and Lukas plus blood claws surviving long enough to move forward and then unload the next turn. It is just too dangerous not to focus on and kill. I would probably put them in separate 9 man squads in 2 different rhinos so it not as simple to shut them both down. A landraider might also work since they are much harder to kill, but they also cost a ton, so idk, but i tend to prefer to give the enemy 3-3 equal targets instead of 1 big one.

As for taking the characters in the first place, I would probably only take Lukas in a list with 20-30 blood claws, as he is just a little bit better than having a lord or a WGBL around, costs more, and only effects the blood claws so its not really worth it to have much else nearby compared to a lord or battle leader. Ulric seems decent, but it's probably not that easy to actually unlock his re-rolls to wound buff., meaning he might as well just be a normal footslogging wolf priest in most games. In general I think that Blood Claws are "good enough" without much more than a WGBL, and I don't want to spend a bunch of points on buffing a unit that charges in, blows something up, and then dies as easily as any other marines.
   
 
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