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What do people think is best in a wave serpent: 8 Fire Dragons or 5 Wraith guard with cannons?

Probably in a Serpent rush Ynnari list.

It's durability vs firepower. On their own I'd say the Guard are better all round but in a Ynnari Serpent rush you want maximum damage on turn 2 and the best chance of wiping the target to trigger SfD. I'm torn.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm doing a mixed Ynnari force for casual play and I'm looking at building my first unit of Wraithguard/blades. I don't have a Wave Serpent for them just yet, should I build them with cannons or with D-Scythes? I really do like how the wraithblades look but my current force is lacking in anti-tank (I only have a raider w/Dark Lance and a Fire Prism for anti-tank). Any ideas?

I seem to be posting D-Scythe Wraithguard for every post i make about Eldar, but... D-Scythe Wraithguard.

Their shooting is pretty generalist, don't need too much support, can advance and shoot, and don't care if they get charged as their Overwatch is good.

Bartali wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I'm doing a mixed Ynnari force for casual play and I'm looking at building my first unit of Wraithguard/blades. I don't have a Wave Serpent for them just yet, should I build them with cannons or with D-Scythes? I really do like how the wraithblades look but my current force is lacking in anti-tank (I only have a raider w/Dark Lance and a Fire Prism for anti-tank). Any ideas?

I seem to be posting D-Scythe Wraithguard for every post i make about Eldar, but... D-Scythe Wraithguard.

Their shooting is pretty generalist, don't need too much support, can advance and shoot, and don't care if they get charged as their Overwatch is good.

Obviously there will be D-Scythes in another Serpent

EDIT: you weren't even replying to me lol. I agree with your advice.

Bartali wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I'm doing a mixed Ynnari force for casual play and I'm looking at building my first unit of Wraithguard/blades. I don't have a Wave Serpent for them just yet, should I build them with cannons or with D-Scythes? I really do like how the wraithblades look but my current force is lacking in anti-tank (I only have a raider w/Dark Lance and a Fire Prism for anti-tank). Any ideas?

I seem to be posting D-Scythe Wraithguard for every post i make about Eldar, but... D-Scythe Wraithguard.

Their shooting is pretty generalist, don't need too much support, can advance and shoot, and don't care if they get charged as their Overwatch is good.

D-Scythe even without a Wave Serpent transport (for now)? My only concern with that is that they would be super slow.

With D-Scythes they can advance and shoot without penalty so the threat range is similar to the cannon guard.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
With D-Scythes they can advance and shoot without penalty so the threat range is similar to the cannon guard.

Hmm. I'm doing Ynnari so I don't think they can advance and shoot with no penalty since no battle focus, right?

Everyone can Advance and fire Assault weapons, that's not an Eldar thing.

And the scythes auto hit so the -1 is irrelevant.

Derp totally forgot that part xD, the auto-hitting I mean.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm doing a mixed Ynnari force for casual play and I'm looking at building my first unit of Wraithguard/blades. I don't have a Wave Serpent for them just yet, should I build them with cannons or with D-Scythes? I really do like how the wraithblades look but my current force is lacking in anti-tank (I only have a raider w/Dark Lance and a Fire Prism for anti-tank). Any ideas?

Tough choice. I like to run one squad of each but if you are just running a single squad, I would probably go for Scythes. They are almost as good vs heavy targets and will murder infantry much better, plus autohitting overwatch is fun.

Farseer_V2 wrote:
I don't want to give up Vectored Engines - that -1 to hit has been a very worthwhile buy so far.

Yeah, it looks really good for 10 points. Spirit Stones also look good at the same price. A 6+ FNP may not sound great but when you consider the number of wounds the Serpent has, it is likely to kick in a couple of times which equates to 2 extra wounds on average.

 Kouzuki wrote:

That said, I'm curious if there are any recommended loadouts for foot Autarchs in 8th ed, specifically since the Path of Command aura seems really strong especially with Guardians right now. I feel it would probably just be a simple Dual Avenger Catapult loadout, but looking for other opinions.

I am still playing around with ideas. My old Autarch has a Fusion gun, a jump generator and a power sword. That kind of flexibility helped in earlier editions but is a bit pricey now that everyone can split fire. I might keep him to add some punch if I am running Warp Spiders.

Skyrunner will be the business for boosting multiple grav tanks I think.

For a pure infantry Auatarch, I think that a Reaper Launcher would be pretty effective, hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s. Since he cannot be targetted unless he is the nearest model, he can churn out an impressive amount of firepower. Too bad the small print means he cannot take 2. :(

My first thought out 2k list (after my playtest one)

Mind you my models are from 1995-2004.

Plan is to run the Farseer +3 serpents with warlock, dragons,wraiths and guardians up a flank and the autarch, reapers, guardians warwalkers warlock to hold a fireline with the banshees as counter assault unit.
Banshees and Autarch could late game grab objectives with their speed.

Farseer SkyRunner+Singing Spear 178

Warlock + SingingSpear 44
5 WraithGuard + WraithCannon 200
4 Fire Dragons+FusionGuns+ Exarch + Fire Pike 125
10 Defender Guardians + Shuriken Cannon 92
WaveSerpent Twin ShurCannons+ ShuricanCannon +SuperCharged Engines +Spirit Stones 163
WaveSerpent Twin EML +ShuricanCannon +Spirit Stones 179
WaveSerpent Twin EML +ShuricanCannon + CTM + Spirit Stones 184

1 Autarch with WarpJump+WebofSkulls{ReaperLauncher/PowerSword} 106
Warlock +witchblade 37
6 Howling Banshees +PowerSwords +Exarch 112
4DarkReapers +ReaperLaunchers+ Exarch + EML 174
10 DefenderGuardians + BrightLance 100
3 WarWalkers +BrightLancex2+ StarCannonx2+ EML+ScatterLaser 323

2000

Alternately I would like a normal Farseer plus 1 more Warlock instead of the JetBike Seer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As I understand it If I have a Warlock/Farseer inside the WaveSerpents I will not be able to cast any psychic powers right?
So no Fortune and no Conceal :(

That is why the Jetbike seer and maybe a warlockskyrunner would be better????

thoughts

Has anyone thought of spamming warlocks for Smite?

 djones520 wrote:
Has anyone thought of spamming warlocks for Smite?

Warlock smite is rather weak FYI with minimal range.

9" range for 1wound, who cares.

 djones520 wrote:
Has anyone thought of spamming warlocks for Smite?

I have been running eldrad, an enclave and a single warlock. I think if you were going to go lots of warlocks you are better suited to run them as a unit. 7 or more ups their destructor to d6 damage but the unit can soak a chunk of damage especially if fortuned and are alright in combat against the right targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 admironheart wrote:


Farseer SkyRunner+Singing Spear 120

Warlock + SingingSpear 44
5 WraithGuard + WraithCannon 200
4 Fire Dragons+FusionGuns+ Exarch + Fire Pike 125
10 Defender Guardians + Shuriken Cannon 92
WaveSerpent Twin ShurCannons+ ShuricanCannon +SuperCharged Engines +Spirit Stones 163
WaveSerpent Twin EML +ShuricanCannon +Spirit Stones 179
WaveSerpent Twin EML +ShuricanCannon + CTM + Spirit Stones 184

1 Autarch with WarpJump+WebofSkulls{ReaperLauncher/PowerSword} 106
Warlock +witchblade 37
6 Howling Banshees +PowerSwords +Exarch 112
4DarkReapers +ReaperLaunchers+ Exarch + EML 174
10 DefenderGuardians + BrightLance 100
3 WarWalkers +BrightLancex2+ StarCannonx2+ EML+ScatterLaser 323

2000



Alternately I would like a normal Farseer plus 1 more Warlock instead of the JetBike Seer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As I understand it If I have a Warlock/Farseer inside the WaveSerpents I will not be able to cast any psychic powers right?
So no Fortune and no Conceal :(

That is why the Jetbike seer and maybe a warlockskyrunner would be better????

thoughts

My experience so far. I have been unimpressed with reapers as unless you can hide them well they are gunned down turn one with relative ease. They are definitely strong offensively but have a big target on their head because of it. If you are wanting to run them consider upping their unit size consider putting them in one of the serpents maybe? That way they are pretty much guaranteed on getting a turn of shooting and with their always hit on 3s they can move out of the wave serpent and into a good position and still shoot at full effect.
6 banshees isn't enough. Either drop them or go to 10. They are pretty fragile and can easily lose 2 or 3 on the charge to overwatch. Either way I would suggest dropping both units and taking a unit of shining spears instead. They will pretty much fill the role you want from your banshees but better and are more survivable. Can also cruise around with the farseer on jetbike as a decent fortune target.

Yes psykers in transports can't cast powers.

Here are some of.my thoughts on our shiny fw stuff.

Revenant big points increase only true titan without macro he's really quick but otherwise not really worth a just shy of warhounds level price point. Not part of any craftworld same as the phantom no psychic buffs or rerolls or anything for you without a phantom titan near by.

Phantom our only option for true titan slaying he's big and scary much less than a warlord now on the same level as a reaver even though it's literally a foot taller.... also no longer a craftworld unit can buff other titans.

Vampire Hunter I like its damage ability but seriously fw how is this the only large flier that doesn't get the titanic flyer rules such as reduce range by 12 and no -1 from heavy weapons... also what happened to the missile launchers where did the pulse lasers come from?

Vampire raider largely the same cheaper than the hunter but much less shooty probably not worth it shoots about as well as 2.5 falcons costs more like 3-4.

Shadow spectre these guys actually look like they can do something they are squished than in previous editions but much more killy no stupid add up the weapon shot rules. Now have a flamer equivalent or a solid shot that can roll additional hits.

Irillyth just don't he's awful offers no buffs shoots slightly better than an Exarch ish better ap lower damage. He also debuffs shadow spectre for some dumb reason I can't comprehend unlike every other Phoenix lords which buffs their aspect.

Wasp assault walkers work exactly like 7th get a ++ And deepstike I like them not much else to say here.

Hornets don't actually have pulse lasers anymore instead cam get hornet pulse lasers which are 3 shot star cannons so they aren't bad by any means but not high strength either. Great vs primaris marinss.

Cobra uhm 10" blast =d6 hits all I have to say here wtf. Should only.now be used for shooting land raiders and pray they have no ++.

Scorpion weaker version of the dual pulsar as it has a lower damage of 3 vs a d6 but I guess it's at least consistent not a bad choice.

Lynx now that snap fire us gone it's actually not terrible when flying but has confusing rules for it also has an even weaker version of the pulsar or the sonic lance 3d6 hits is way worse than hellstorm.

Warp hunter took the same nerfs as other distortion weapons but actually looks good still at 12" d6 auto hits of the d6 wound d weapon profile. Still has a nice bombard to doesn't require los and ups to 2d3 vs 10 models.

Wraithseer gives some good buffs to wraith units does not effect the wk. It can only use 1/3 of the powers though so choose wisely.

Skathach Wraithknight costs well over 600 points with weapons inferno are just melta guns now literally just 2d6 at half pick highest probably still beats stock but the d6 shots if you roll okay is good. The flamers look really good but at this point you are closing in at 700 points and break it with shoulder kounts. Jump rule is nice and fun I guess still seems to pricey but at least isn't gutted by loss of D rules.

Phoenix really nice weapon choices both missiles look really good and it has a buffed pulse laser. Now Can take twin bright lances or starcannons at a high cost. Ballistic skill is miserable as everything is heavy and it only has a 3+ at the best of times.

Nightwing interceptor... got fancy wing rules not really sure why to be fully honest. Also has a miserable ballistic skill for it's fancy bright lances I guess the shuricannons are still firing on a 3+. The rules for wings either make you survivable or better at killy honestly better to stay survivable the 5++ And -1 to hit is way better than change facing and add 1 to hit. Good thing fw dropped the interceptor word from it's name because if you are in flying mode you hit other flyers on a 5+ if you drop out of it you can shoot them better but apparently you are an awful dog fighter.

Guess we can talk about corsairs to. Well this blurb is longer than what they got in the book. They have the worst special rules ever role additional dice on moral pick highest as well as lose an extra model. Bikers still have all their guns vibro at least are useable now but this unit is expensive. The infantry options suffer the same fate trash special rules and very expensive fragile platform. DID I MENTION how bad their rules are they are leadership 6 so if your 3 man jetbikes squad loses 1 model you now roll 2d6 pick the highest and add 1 meaning a single casualty can cause your 1.5× cost of guardian jetbikes unit to run off the table on a mediocre roll have fun.

Also all fw eldar pay for felarchs and Exarch unlike codec eldar. Bit disappointed about a few things the already easy choice things such as hornets and wasps are still good. Other stuff really not so much revenant got the collosal nerf bat for it's sins. I personal have a vampire hunter and revenant I'll also likely grab the new flyer bundle but I'm really unsure if they are worth it over the gw flyers seem worse but are cheaper at least.

 admironheart wrote:


Farseer SkyRunner+Singing Spear 120

Should be 178 points. Fancy wargear tax 'n all.

So I am looking at the ynnari rules regarding strength in death and word of the Phoenix and just looking to clarify a few things.

In word of the Phoenix it stipulates friendly ynnari unit within 18". Looking at army of the reborn any unit part of the army has the ynnari keyword. Does that mean non infantry and non bike units can soulburst through word of the Phoenix as they are a friendly ynnari unit?

Secondly, if you soulburst and decide to cast a psychic power, does this still follow the matched play rule of only one casting of a spell per turn. I don't have the rulebook to check the wording of the matched play psychic rule but am interested on if this has been addressed anywhere yet.

a full battle round is one complete play of both players turn.
I would think that if it does say 1 casting per turn it would apply to yours and your opponents turns separately.

and thanks Selym. I forgot to edit that when I took out the foot Farseer and the extra Warlock to put in the jetbike

Wyldcarde wrote:
So I am looking at the ynnari rules regarding strength in death and word of the Phoenix and just looking to clarify a few things.

In word of the Phoenix it stipulates friendly ynnari unit within 18". Looking at army of the reborn any unit part of the army has the ynnari keyword. Does that mean non infantry and non bike units can soulburst through word of the Phoenix as they are a friendly ynnari unit?

Secondly, if you soulburst and decide to cast a psychic power, does this still follow the matched play rule of only one casting of a spell per turn. I don't have the rulebook to check the wording of the matched play psychic rule but am interested on if this has been addressed anywhere yet.

Yeah, Word of the Phoenix can be used on any Ynnari unit, not just those with Strength from Death. Note too that there's no rule against non-infantry/bikes Soulbursting or even having SfD -- the Yncarne has Strength from Death, after all.

There's nothing in the psychic power Soulburst ability that would override the usual restriction. But it would allow you to cast whatever you want on your opponent's turn, if you trigger a Soulburst.

Titanicus wrote:
Here are some of.my thoughts on our shiny fw stuff.

I like the Wraithseer- for 37 more points than a Wraithlord with glaive he gains +1A and +2W, a 5++ save and adds a Deny the Witch roll to the army. Also, as an HQ choice, makes taking additional detachments a lot more flexible if you don't need another aura character. The psychic powers aren't very powerful, but are useful enough for me to boost the speed of a nearby Wraithlord or add an additional -1 Ld to enemy units. I'm not sure why he takes such harsh movement penalties as he gets damaged 8"->6"->4" rather than 8"->7"->6" but he'll certainly be seeing play in my Ynnari list.

Corsairs are very fragile, but I still want to consider them as Ynnari. To make the Reavers cheap, you can trade out the lasblaster for a spar-glaive, then they're 11 points per model. If you compare them to Wyches at that points cost, they do seem like a unit that you can take. Similar statline to Wyches, and I really like their brace of pistols, but they desperately belong in an open-topped transport and without that option it's hard to imagine them surviving to get within 8". Still, I run a Ynnari footslogging list and a squad of 5 with flamer comes to only 64 points and that potential 30 shots that wound on 4+ is enticing.

^^^

Is the D-Cannon on the Wraithseer the same as the one in the Index ?
Will eventually get one of these to add to my Iyanden

Bartali wrote:
^^^

Is the D-Cannon on the Wraithseer the same as the one in the Index ?
Will eventually get one of these to add to my Iyanden

Yes, the D-Cannon on the Wraithseer and the D-Cannon in the craftworld index are the same.

do not have my fw index yet for xenos (physical ordered) can the wraithseer cast smite instead of a buff or is it just buffs?

 G00fySmiley wrote:
do not have my fw index yet for xenos (physical ordered) can the wraithseer cast smite instead of a buff or is it just buffs?

No smite.

chriachrias wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
do not have my fw index yet for xenos (physical ordered) can the wraithseer cast smite instead of a buff or is it just buffs?

No smite.

well that is a bit disappoint, but thanks! I love the model probably one of my fav kits to date. wraithlords look good this edition though so maybe I can run him with my 4 wraithlords.

Problem is, WS will be focused down before Lords since he's a Character with more than 10 wounds.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Problem is, WS will be focused down before Lords since he's a Character with more than 10 wounds.

He does have a 5++ though which helps a decent bit.

Wish he could do the 6+ mortal wound save on himself though.

Also it specifically says no smite only these 3 powers for him, for the poster above.

Shadow Spectres are great, I'd argue the easily strongest of all Aspects this edition. The fact that they all have to ability to fire what is essentially a Heavy Flamer is extremely nasty. A unit of 6 will put on an average of 21 strength 5 Ap -1 hits with overwatch. In addition, they average 9 strength 6 Ap -3 hits at 18" range with the prism rifle fire. They make Warp Spiders look like a complete joke for +1 ppm.

 Khaine wrote:
Shadow Spectres are great, I'd argue the easily strongest of all Aspects this edition. The fact that they all have to ability to fire what is essentially a Heavy Flamer is extremely nasty. A unit of 6 will put on an average of 21 strength 5 Ap -1 hits with overwatch. In addition, they average 9 strength 6 Ap -3 hits at 18" range with the prism rifle fire. They make Warp Spiders look like a complete joke for +1 ppm.

Maybe that's why many people keep considering FW rules unbalanced against the core game?