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 Zande4 wrote:
If you want to get really technical it's +6 attacks strictly RAW. Obviously this is wrong and no one is going to play it like that, it's so incredibly poorly worded.

col_impact is correct in saying that a pair of scything talons (of any size) is not a weapon profile. They are purchased in pairs, but the weapon profile does not mention "pair" anywhere.

The rule states:

"If the bearer has more than one pair of monstrous / massive scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights."

You: Fight in the fight phase and elect to use a different scything talon for your 6 attacks, each one generating an additional attack as you have move than 1 pair.

Breakdown:

Does a Trygon have - "If the bearer has more than one pair of monstrous / massive scything talons," Yes

So when a Trygon fights "it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights." This weapon = Scything Talons of which it has 6 of.

Rules as written = 6 attacks
Rules as interpreted = 1 attack
Rules as probably intended = 2 attacks

This isn't correct. When you attack with 'massive scything talons' you are attacking with all of them with a single weapon profile. The 'massive scything talons' refers to itself as 'this weapon' so all of the massive scything talons are one weapon.

And when you bought 'pair of massive scything talons' you didn't buy additional weapons (no profile for 'pair of massive scything talons').

So RAW is +1A.

col_impact wrote:

You have this backwards. I am not doing anything without strict permission.

I am following the rules to the letter that 'massive scything talons' is a single weapon profile for however many number of massive scything talons you have and the additional pairs your have equipped can grant +1A max.

You are the one who is trying to add a weapon for 'pair of massive scything talons' when no such weapon profile exists.

You have continued to fail to deliver a weapon profile for 'pair of massive scything talons'.

 Lance845 wrote:
Ok. For the sake of appeasing people not col_impact I will give this one more red hot go.

First a model has wargear.

Second every piece of wargear has a profile.

Third a pair of something is 2 of that thing.

Fourth the name of a profile is irrelevant except to identify that profile for rules purposes. I.e. a unit called "canoptek spiders" can have 1-3 models. It does not matter that the profile for the unit is plural because it can represent a single model. Another example, biovore brood. A brood is 2 or more of a thing. But the biovore brood unit can consist of a single biovore.

Fifth we have no permission to modify a profile except with a second profile that directly states the changes it is making.

So, a model equipped with a pair (2) of "scything talons" is equipped with 2 separate profiles called "scything talons". And a model equipped with 3 pairs (6) of "scything talons" has 6 individual weapon profiles.

That is RAW

For your claim to be true you need to site a rule and/or a precedent where we have permission to modify a profile without the express permission of another profile or dataslate. Show me ANYWHERE in ANY book where that is the case.

col_impact wrote:

You are the one who is trying to add a weapon for 'pair of massive scything talons' when no such weapon profile exists.

You have continued to fail to deliver a weapon profile for 'pair of massive scything talons'.

 Lance845 wrote:

So, a model equipped with a pair (2) of "scything talons" is equipped with 2 separate profiles called "scything talons". And a model equipped with 3 pairs (6) of "scything talons" has 6 individual weapon profiles.

col_impact wrote:

You are the one who is trying to add a weapon for 'pair of massive scything talons' when no such weapon profile exists.

 Lance845 wrote:

is equipped with 2 separate profiles called "scything talons".

 Lance845 wrote:
And a model equipped with 3 pairs (6) of "scything talons" has 6 individual weapon profiles.

Col-Impact, your complete and total lack of reading comprehension is astounding. How could you possibly have anything to contribute to a discussion on rules that are written in a book when you cannot even grasp the ideas being conveyed in two sentences?

This is not meant to be an insult. It's a legit question. Do you have dyslexia?

And btw, you STILL need to provide references for how the rules allow you to modify a single profile of wargear without any other profile or dataslate that gives you permission to do so.

Can I check if I am getting the arguments from col_impact and Lance845 correct? I've written them out below. I'm not putting in what support they have for their premises, I just want to make sure I'm getting what is being argued before I read the evidence.

Argument 1:

Premise 1: A plural name for a weapon profile indicates that all purchase are aggregated into 1 weapon profile.
Premise 2: Massive Scything Talons is plural.
Premise 3: Each profile for Massive Scything Talons checks to see if you have more than one pair.
Premise 4: Each profile grants you +1 attack if you have more than one pair.
Conclusion: There is only one profile and therefore only 1 extra attack.

Argument 2:

Premise 1: Weapon profiles can be purchased multiple times.
Premise 2: When purchasing a weapon multiple times you have multiple weapons.
Premise 3: Each profile for Massive Scything Talons checks to see if you have more than one pair.
Premise 4: Each profile grants you +1 attack if you have more than one pair.
Conclusion: There are 6 profiles, therefore, you have 6 extra attacks.

Drager wrote:
Can I check if I am getting the arguments from col_impact and Lance845 correct? I've written them out below. I'm not putting in what support they have for their premises, I just want to make sure I'm getting what is being argued before I read the evidence.

Argument 2:

Premise 1: Weapon profiles can be purchased multiple times.
Premise 2: When purchasing a weapon multiple times you have multiple weapons.
Premise 3: Each profile for Massive Scything Talons checks to see if you have more than one pair.
Premise 4: Each profile grants you +1 attack if you have more than one pair.
Conclusion: There are 6 profiles, therefore, you have 6 extra attacks.

Correct. I am arguing that that is the RAW. I would like to note that I do not think that Is the RAI. I thik they forgot to have the words "Pair of" in the profiles name. The points costs would suport this. I believe a Trygon SHOULD have 3 profiles granting +3 attacks. But their poor rules writing is what it is.

My major dispute with Cols interpretation is that there is no presedent for wargear being "upgraded". Each piece of wargear is it's own with it's own profile. (Otherwise a Hive Tyrant with Deathspitter x2 would have a single profile that shoots 3 times instead of 2 profiles shooting 3 times each).

the issue with 2 is that it is only a single wargear purchase

GodDamUser wrote:
the issue with 2 is that it is only a single wargear purchase

Except that it's not. It's a points value for purchasing multiple profiles at a discount. Again, you cannot use ANYTHING in the points values as a rules reference because they are not even used in the majority of the ways to play the game.

The only thing that matters in the wargear profiles and the unit dataslates.

 Lance845 wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
the issue with 2 is that it is only a single wargear purchase

Except that it's not. It's a points value for purchasing multiple profiles at a discount. Again, you cannot use ANYTHING in the points values as a rules reference because they are not even used in the majority of the ways to play the game.

The only thing that matters in the wargear profiles and the unit dataslates.

I would agree but the trygon only has the one option

GodDamUser wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
the issue with 2 is that it is only a single wargear purchase

Except that it's not. It's a points value for purchasing multiple profiles at a discount. Again, you cannot use ANYTHING in the points values as a rules reference because they are not even used in the majority of the ways to play the game.

The only thing that matters in the wargear profiles and the unit dataslates.

I would agree but the trygon only has the one option

Correct. The trygon only has the one option. And? Exocrines only have the one option for bioplasmic cannon. A weapon only they have access to. The cannon still has a points cost. Same with the spore mine launcher. The way points are set up being dumb doesn't make them relevant for rules. It's only relevant for what you can legally put in a list using a points limit.

It is equiped with 3 pairs as per the data slate. The points costs tables tell you what that would cost if you used points. If you don't use points look at the wargear list. Which profile would it use? Where is the profile or nid special rule that defines "pairs"? Why would you assume there is some unique ill defined special rule feature for "pairs" instead of doing the math and giving the model the multiple pieces of duplicate wargear it says it has on it's dataslate?

I am going to post this again so all of the important rules are in one place.

So in the rule book it states "The weapons a model has are described on its datasheet. If a model has more than one melee weapon choose which will be used before rolling the dice.
If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between the weapons however you wish - declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled."

The Trygon data sheet tells us that it has three pairs of massive scything talons. Pairs means two, two times three is six total massive scything talons.
The datasheet then gives us the profile for the massive scything talon with the ability that "if the bearer has more than one pair of massive scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon."

The word pair is really only used for describing quantity, to tell us the number of scything talons (of any size). Pairs of scything talons are removed when upgrading the Tyrant or Carnifex but monstrous crushing/rending claws do not specifically mention they come in pairs so there is some inconsistency. It really doesn't help that talons can be bought in pairs or multiple pairs yet the weapon profile does not reflect this at all.

Pair is also used to tell us how many scything talons we need before the second portion of the abilities trigger. By RAW we are allowed to split our attacks; and if we split the 6 attacks legally (1 to the mandatory toxinspike and the remaining 5 split among 5 of the 6 scything talons). Then the secondary ability of the talons would kick in and generate +1 attack for each individual talon with attacks allocated to it, thus +5 attacks.

col_impact's ENTIRE argument hinges on the fact that there is one single profile for Scything Talons of any kind, in any number. HOWEVER both the unit datasheet AND the points section specifically mention quantity. I know he keeps harping on pairs of scything talons but in the points section pairs is in ( ) AFTER that weapon name, thus indicating MULTIPLES.

This is further supported by the first rule i quoted from the main rules where it mentions having multiple melee weapons and being able to split attacks. Also, the datasheet CLEARLY states how many talons the models has; otherwise it would say scything talons rather than x number of pairs.

Yes some weapons that there are clearly two of are bought as a single weapon option (see rending claws or crushing claws); however we do have points listings for multiples of the same weapons being purchased (see scything talons for trygons, carnifex and tyrants).

col_impact wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You can't just call my argument nonsense. You need to prove it. That is Tenet #1 of YMDC. Back up what you say.

You refusing everyone else's argument doesn't count as not proving it... and has been shown in numerous threads that you refuse to look at any view other than the one you have established in your head.. even when shown to be incorrect via FAQs

No one has posted an argument with any support.

Well, you certainly have.

col_impact wrote:
Meanwhile, my argument is supported directly by the RAW.

Not with the "proof" you provide

GodDamUser wrote:
Basic tip of the YMDC if Col_Impact gets involed 90% of the time the thread is dead and will spout the same nonsense over and over again, and it is usually incorrect.

Do believe it is time to lock this thread

You're probably right.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

Jacksmiles wrote:

orknado wrote:
Suggestion.

Instead of just calling col_impact names, why don't you follow the Tenets of YMDC and prove his argument wrong.

8 pages of doing just that. RAW supports 3 attacks. You may believe RAI is 1 attack, but the rules don't say that just because you want them to.

Saying you did just that is not the same as actually doing it.

Oh, the irony. Heed your own words.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
How is it not paid for? Isnt the Trygons 3 three times the cost of the Tervigons 1? (Honest question away from books going from memory)

How many attacks does a Trygon with 3 pairs get? How many attacks does a Trygon with 2 pairs get? What is the cost difference between those two?



There is no cost difference between the two. In my argument the no cost difference corresponds to no change in the number of attacks between a Trygon with 3 pairs and a Trygon with 2 pairs. So that's independent confirmation of my RAW argument.

So not only is my argument strictly according to the RAW, it is also what the rules writers had in mind when they wrote the price index.

This argument here is not a RAW argument. It's a "guess at their RAI based on this evidence" argument. Not actual RAI, but your guess as to what the RAI is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
And none of them tell you to buy 3x vicious claws.

Exactly. So you aren't buying weapon profiles. You are buying additional pairs which are equipment that grant the +1A per the rule on the weapon profile. It's real straight-forward.

This is the reason your argument isn't RAW. You lack a profile for what you claim.

It tells you to buy 3 X (weapons). Weapons have profiles, so each (weapon) has a profile. Your assertiona that the additional pairs are equipment but not weapons has no basis in RAW whatsoever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

Drager wrote:
Can I check if I am getting the arguments from col_impact and Lance845 correct? I've written them out below. I'm not putting in what support they have for their premises, I just want to make sure I'm getting what is being argued before I read the evidence.

Argument 2:

Premise 1: Weapon profiles can be purchased multiple times.
Premise 2: When purchasing a weapon multiple times you have multiple weapons.
Premise 3: Each profile for Massive Scything Talons checks to see if you have more than one pair.
Premise 4: Each profile grants you +1 attack if you have more than one pair.
Conclusion: There are 6 profiles, therefore, you have 6 extra attacks.

Correct. I am arguing that that is the RAW. I would like to note that I do not think that Is the RAI. I thik they forgot to have the words "Pair of" in the profiles name. The points costs would suport this. I believe a Trygon SHOULD have 3 profiles granting +3 attacks. But their poor rules writing is what it is.

My major dispute with Cols interpretation is that there is no presedent for wargear being "upgraded". Each piece of wargear is it's own with it's own profile. (Otherwise a Hive Tyrant with Deathspitter x2 would have a single profile that shoots 3 times instead of 2 profiles shooting 3 times each).

It would probably be better to say
Premise 1: When purchasing a weapon multiple times you have multiple weapons
Premise 2: Each weapon has a profile

Some of the problem with col impact's argument is that he is treating it as you are buying one weapon and multiple pieces of non-weapon "equipment". There's no RAW for that.

 Lance845 wrote:


And btw, you STILL need to provide references for how the rules allow you to modify a single profile of wargear without any other profile or dataslate that gives you permission to do so.

Not sure why you are asking me this. My argument involves strictly following rules on profiles. For clarification, can you point me to the rule in the book that you think I am violating?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathklaat wrote:
I am going to post this again so all of the important rules are in one place.

So in the rule book it states "The weapons a model has are described on its datasheet. If a model has more than one melee weapon choose which will be used before rolling the dice.
If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between the weapons however you wish - declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled."

The Trygon data sheet tells us that it has three pairs of massive scything talons. Pairs means two, two times three is six total massive scything talons.
The datasheet then gives us the profile for the massive scything talon with the ability that "if the bearer has more than one pair of massive scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon."

The word pair is really only used for describing quantity, to tell us the number of scything talons (of any size). Pairs of scything talons are removed when upgrading the Tyrant or Carnifex but monstrous crushing/rending claws do not specifically mention they come in pairs so there is some inconsistency. It really doesn't help that talons can be bought in pairs or multiple pairs yet the weapon profile does not reflect this at all.

Pair is also used to tell us how many scything talons we need before the second portion of the abilities trigger. By RAW we are allowed to split our attacks; and if we split the 6 attacks legally (1 to the mandatory toxinspike and the remaining 5 split among 5 of the 6 scything talons). Then the secondary ability of the talons would kick in and generate +1 attack for each individual talon with attacks allocated to it, thus +5 attacks.

col_impact's ENTIRE argument hinges on the fact that there is one single profile for Scything Talons of any kind, in any number. HOWEVER both the unit datasheet AND the points section specifically mention quantity. I know he keeps harping on pairs of scything talons but in the points section pairs is in ( ) AFTER that weapon name, thus indicating MULTIPLES.

This is further supported by the first rule i quoted from the main rules where it mentions having multiple melee weapons and being able to split attacks. Also, the datasheet CLEARLY states how many talons the models has; otherwise it would say scything talons rather than x number of pairs.

Yes some weapons that there are clearly two of are bought as a single weapon option (see rending claws or crushing claws); however we do have points listings for multiples of the same weapons being purchased (see scything talons for trygons, carnifex and tyrants).

There is no profile for 'pair of massive scything talons'.

When you purchase the option you are not purchasing a weapon.

The datasheet states how many pairs of massive scything talons the model has since a rule for the 'massive scything talons' weapon profile cares about that number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
And none of them tell you to buy 3x vicious claws.

Exactly. So you aren't buying weapon profiles. You are buying additional pairs which are equipment that grant the +1A per the rule on the weapon profile. It's real straight-forward.

This is the reason your argument isn't RAW. You lack a profile for what you claim.

It tells you to buy 3 X (weapons). Weapons have profiles, so each (weapon) has a profile. Your assertiona that the additional pairs are equipment but not weapons has no basis in RAW whatsoever.

You are making claims without rules support.

"It tells you to buy 3 X (weapons)." Point out in the rules where it tells you to 'buy 3 X (weapons).'

"Weapons have profiles, so each (weapon) has a profile". Point out in the rules where you get this rule from.

The datasheet tells me I can purchase 'additional pairs of massive scything talons' without providing a profile for 'pair of massive scything talons' so I follow the RAW and do just that. Those purchases aren't weapon purchases since there is nothing justifying that purchase as a weapon in the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:


Some of the problem with col impact's argument is that he is treating it as you are buying one weapon and multiple pieces of non-weapon "equipment". There's no RAW for that.

And yet we are looking at exactly the RAW for that.

There is no weapon profile for 'pair of massive scything talons'.

So when you purchase 'additional pairs' you are merely modifying the single weapon profile you already have for 'massive scything talons' by adding additional pairs that that single weapon profile cares about.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

So point me to the profile for 'pair of massive scything talons' or 'massive scything talon'. Page reference please.

Score 0 for reading comprehension.

My argument does not hinge on either of those things existing.

Can you show us all the rule for "Pairs of" that says they combine or modify a weapon profile?

col_impact wrote:


There is no profile for 'pair of massive scything talons'.

When you purchase the option you are not purchasing a weapon.

The datasheet states how many pairs of massive scything talons the model has since a rule for the 'massive scything talons' weapon profile cares about that number.

So by your logic how many stranglethorn cannons does the Harpy have?

There is no profile for pair of talons because the talon is the singular, pair, two pair, three pair all are telling you QUANTITY. They could have put "The Trygon is equipped with 6 scything talons..." but they didn't BECAUSE


Definition of pair
plural pairs or pair

1 a (1) : two corresponding things designed for use together (a pair of shoes)
(2) : two corresponding bodily parts or members (a pair of hands)

Tbh i am getting really fed up with the circle jerk, it is clearly written as a quantity. Welcome to the ignore list, you can rules debate to yourself for all eternity.

 Deathklaat wrote:

col_impact wrote:


There is no profile for 'pair of massive scything talons'.

When you purchase the option you are not purchasing a weapon.

The datasheet states how many pairs of massive scything talons the model has since a rule for the 'massive scything talons' weapon profile cares about that number.

So by your logic how many stranglethorn cannons does the Harpy have?

The profile is for a 'stranglethorn cannon' and the datasheet indicates that the Harpy has two stranglethorn cannons, so obviously the Harpy has two of them, per RAW.

 Deathklaat wrote:
There is no profile for pair of talons because the talon is the singular, pair, two pair, three pair all are telling you QUANTITY. They could have put "The Trygon is equipped with 6 scything talons..." but they didn't BECAUSE


Definition of pair
plural pairs or pair

1 a (1) : two corresponding things designed for use together (a pair of shoes)
(2) : two corresponding bodily parts or members (a pair of hands)

Tbh i am getting really fed up with the circle jerk, it is clearly written as a quantity. Welcome to the ignore list, you can rules debate to yourself for all eternity.

It looks like you were unable to provide rules support for your argument so now your recourse is to ignore the person who has rules support.

I will accept your concession.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:
Score 0 for reading comprehension.

My argument does not hinge on either of those things existing.

Can you show us all the rule for "Pairs of" that says they combine or modify a weapon profile?

The 'massive scything talons' profile by its wording is aware of the number of pairs of massive scything talons the model is equipped with.

col_impact wrote:


The 'massive scything talons' profile by its wording is aware of the number of pairs of massive scything talons the model is equipped with.

Col_impact if you had 3 pairs of shoes how many shoes would you have?

col_impact wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
And none of them tell you to buy 3x vicious claws.

Exactly. So you aren't buying weapon profiles. You are buying additional pairs which are equipment that grant the +1A per the rule on the weapon profile. It's real straight-forward.

This is the reason your argument isn't RAW. You lack a profile for what you claim.

It tells you to buy 3 X (weapons). Weapons have profiles, so each (weapon) has a profile. Your assertiona that the additional pairs are equipment but not weapons has no basis in RAW whatsoever.

You are making claims without rules support.

"It tells you to buy 3 X (weapons)." Point out in the rules where it tells you to 'buy 3 X (weapons).'

Quit being obstinate. I'm giving an example here. You CAN but additional pairs or weapons. This example works with any number of any weapon, to be honest.

col_impact wrote:


"Weapons have profiles, so each (weapon) has a profile". Point out in the rules where you get this rule from.

Well, for shooting attacks we have a statement "The number of attacks a model can make with a weapon, ant therefore the number of dice you can roll, is found on the weapon's profile, along with the weapon's type", showing that you have profiles for ranged weapons. "the weapons a model is equipped with are described on its datasheet" for melee weapons - referring to the weapon profiles. Also "If a datasheet does not list any melee weapons, the model is assumed to fight with a close combat weapon, which has the following profile." So, all weapons have profiles. Trying to pretend that they don't is showing ignorance of the actual rules.

col_impact wrote:

The datasheet tells me I can purchase 'additional pairs of massive scything talons' without providing a profile for 'pair of massive scything talons' so I follow the RAW and do just that. Those purchases aren't weapon purchases since there is nothing justifying that purchase as a weapon in the rules.

If you start with a pair of massive scything talons, then you have a profile on the sheet as per the statement in the "choose melee weapon" section in the fight phase section of the core rules. Buying additional pairs means buying additional weapons, with each pair having the profile that you list. It's a weapon when you are first equipped with it, buying additional weapons does not make them non-weapons without a profile suddenly without any rules notation to prove it, and you have not provided any proof of such.

col_impact wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doctortom wrote:


Some of the problem with col impact's argument is that he is treating it as you are buying one weapon and multiple pieces of non-weapon "equipment". There's no RAW for that.

And yet we are looking at exactly the RAW for that.

You're looking at something, but not the RAW for that. The other people here are looking at the RAW and find your argument lackinig.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathklaat wrote:

col_impact wrote:


The 'massive scything talons' profile by its wording is aware of the number of pairs of massive scything talons the model is equipped with.

Col_impact if you had 3 pairs of shoes how many shoes would you have?

Going by what he says, he'd have 1 shoe and 5 pieces of equipment.

A 9 page argument tells me that the answer is more simple. GW isn't that clever to make it so convoluted. Trygons get +1 attack (6 attacks with their talons and 1 with their tail) and I doubt you're going to get anyone to agree with you otherwise especially in a tournament setting with TO's running around. Let's move on.

skycapt44 wrote:
A 9 page argument tells me that the answer is more simple. GW isn't that clever to make it so convoluted. Trygons get +1 attack (6 attacks with their talons and 1 with their tail) and I doubt you're going to get anyone to agree with you otherwise especially in a tournament setting with TO's running around. Let's move on.

Except no. The wargear for the Trygon clearly states 3 pairs of talons. The Rules allow us to split attacks among our weapons if we have enough attacks. The talons check for multiple pairs of talons and grant +1 attack each time the weapon is used. IF 5 attacks are split among 5 talons then there would be 5 checks for multiple pairs and then +1 attack for each talon used.

Unless the listing was supposed to say pair of massive scything talons, in which case it's 3 weapons with each getting a +1. But col impact's insistance that the profile isn't for the pair means it has to be treated as a single weapon, since instances of multiple weapons are treated as separate weapons.

col_impact is this a fair summary of your argument?

Drager wrote:

Argument 1:

Premise 1: A plural name for a weapon profile indicates that all purchase are aggregated into 1 weapon profile.
Premise 2: Massive Scything Talons is plural.
Premise 3: Each profile for Massive Scything Talons checks to see if you have more than one pair.
Premise 4: Each profile grants you +1 attack if you have more than one pair.
Conclusion: There is only one profile and therefore only 1 extra attack.

 doctortom wrote:
Unless the listing was supposed to say pair of massive scything talons, in which case it's 3 weapons with each getting a +1. But col impact's insistance that the profile isn't for the pair means it has to be treated as a single weapon, since instances of multiple weapons are treated as separate weapons.

The profile we have is 'massive scything talons' which is a single weapon profile encompassing however many massive scything talons a model has, just like Wraith's 'vicious claws'. That's the RAW.

Obviously, at least 99% of the people disagree with you.

 doctortom wrote:
Obviously, at least 99% of the people disagree with you.

That isn't an argument. You have to prove my RAW argument wrong. The popularity of the RAW has nothing to do with it's veracity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deathklaat wrote:

col_impact wrote:


The 'massive scything talons' profile by its wording is aware of the number of pairs of massive scything talons the model is equipped with.

Col_impact if you had 3 pairs of shoes how many shoes would you have?

How many melee weapons does a Wraith have?

of course he avoids the obvious answer because it would prove that he is wrong and he is TFG. Trump logic at it's finest. The facts are CLEARLY laid in front of you but suddenly they don't exist or apply. FAKE RULES!

The rule book clearly talks about attacking with MULTIPLE weapons if something has then attacks for it. The datasheet tells us that the trygon has 3 pairs of talons. By REAL WORLD MATH that is 6. So now we look at the profile for those SIX weapons and we see the scything talon rule and we use that, but it is plural because there is NO OPTION to take anything LESS than a PAIR of scything talons.

The number of weapons a Wraith has is not related. The trygon profile clearly defines the number of weapons. If you cannot put together that 3 times 2 is 6 then maybe you should play a game that doesn't use words or numbers like Hide and Seek or Rock, Scissors, Paper.

col_impact wrote:

That isn't an argument. You have to prove my RAW argument wrong. The popularity of the RAW has nothing to do with it's veracity.

Flat Earth logic right there.

]

col_impact wrote:


The 'massive scything talons' profile by its wording is aware of the number of pairs of massive scything talons the model is equipped with.

Yup. As is the dataslate telling you how many they come with. Where is the rule that defines a pair as a mechanical entity within the rules that changes how a weapon profile functions as opposed to a numerical value?

 Deathklaat wrote:
of course he avoids the obvious answer because it would prove that he is wrong and he is TFG. Trump logic at it's finest. The facts are CLEARLY laid in front of you but suddenly they don't exist or apply. FAKE RULES!

The rule book clearly talks about attacking with MULTIPLE weapons if something has then attacks for it. The datasheet tells us that the trygon has 3 pairs of talons. By REAL WORLD MATH that is 6. So now we look at the profile for those SIX weapons and we see the scything talon rule and we use that, but it is plural because there is NO OPTION to take anything LESS than a PAIR of scything talons.

The number of weapons a Wraith has is not related. The trygon profile clearly defines the number of weapons. If you cannot put together that 3 times 2 is 6 then maybe you should play a game that doesn't use words or numbers like Hide and Seek or Rock, Scissors, Paper.

col_impact wrote:

That isn't an argument. You have to prove my RAW argument wrong. The popularity of the RAW has nothing to do with it's veracity.

Flat Earth logic right there.

You have six objects referred to as 'shoe'. Which proves my argument. There is no profile for 'massive scything talon' (ie 'shoe'). There is no profile for 'pair of massive scything talons' (ie 'pair of shoes'). There is only a profile for 'massive scything talons' (ie 'shoes'). So when you attack with 'this weapon' you are attacking with your 'massive scything talons' (ie you attack with your shoes - analogy breaks there, that's why we don't use real word example per the rules of the forum - please follow the rules of YMDC)

The weapon profile we have is 'massive scything talons' which is a single weapon profile for however many massive scything talons a model has.

You have been unable to show a profile named 'pair of massive scything talons' or a profile named 'massive scything talon' so 'this weapon' that the Trygon attacks with is 'massive scything talons'.

The RAW does not support your argument.

Let me know when you can find a profile that supports your argument.


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 Lance845 wrote:

col_impact wrote:


The 'massive scything talons' profile by its wording is aware of the number of pairs of massive scything talons the model is equipped with.

Yup. As is the dataslate telling you how many they come with. Where is the rule that defines a pair as a mechanical entity within the rules that changes how a weapon profile functions as opposed to a numerical value?

The rule in the 'massive scything talons' profile. It grants +1A if there is more than one pair of massive scything talons. That's the RAW.

That is not an answer to the question I asked. [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

 Lance845 wrote:
That is not an answer to the question I asked. [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

I answered the question. The 'massive scything talons' profile is a rule that looks for additional 'pairs of massive scything talons' beyond the first. The weapon profile will grant +1A if it finds additional pairs. That changes how the weapon profile functions in the game. That's the RAW.

I suggest you focus on finding rules support for your argument rather than simply making personal attacks.

My argument obviously has you rattled.