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Is that right, I thought the rocket pods were heavy d6?

 ph34r wrote:
Is that right, I thought the rocket pods were heavy d6?

atleast in my codex, Assult d6 s5 ap-1

the only thing that happened in ca was it got even cheaper.

I mean i get good results with arguably a worse content in it

You are right, my Battlescribe has it wrong.

 ph34r wrote:
You are right, my Battlescribe has it wrong.

Don't trust battlescribe with any fw index army.

I now started to use some bullgores (the minotaurs) from AoS for my ogryn darts.

Frankly i am also considering adding in melee marauders and will test, atleast in smaller <1000 pts games 2x5 marauders with melee equipment, then again it will be mostlikely less effective then shooting with marauders.

Melee Marauders seem like one of those units where it could take out a weak enemy infantry or heavy weapon squad, but when it comes to the bigger battle plan may be made insignificant.

 ph34r wrote:
Melee Marauders seem like one of those units where it could take out a weak enemy infantry or heavy weapon squad, but when it comes to the bigger battle plan may be made insignificant.

You don't need to kit marauders for melee though.
No seriously, give the chief a power Maul or sword and then autoguns / shotguns and special weapon of choice.
They allready have 2 attacks base and ws 3+ so why not.
Infact i have recently begun running them as a sort of assult infantry with heretek, 2 plasmaguns 1 power Maul chief and when I couldn't finish an enemy squad i just charged it to wipe em.

Worked well enough there but the target should have t3.

I remain of the opinion that making melee R&H is like trying to make a cat bark.

IIRC, a Daemonette is now the same price as a Marauder and is tougher (5++), faster (7"), choppier (2/3A, depending on unit size), always fights first unless you get charged, hits more often and can be made stronger with a 60pt Herald that you can hide easily.

Bloodletters are 1pt each more than Marauders and, arguably, even better than Daemonettes.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I remain of the opinion that making melee R&H is like trying to make a cat bark.

IIRC, a Daemonette is now the same price as a Marauder and is tougher (5++), faster (7"), choppier (2/3A, depending on unit size), always fights first unless you get charged, hits more often and can be made stronger with a 60pt Herald that you can hide easily.

Bloodletters are 1pt each more than Marauders and, arguably, even better than Daemonettes.

Frankly so long Unnatural vigour exists melee is valid.
Well mass melee with 50Mutant blobs, because the fact that you are allowed to reroll wounds and hits and charges and you basically can guarantee the check with the coven.
Then again tarpitting is our most valid strategy.

I'm not a fan of relying on powers that can be denied, personally.Luck is probability taken personally, granted, but my luck is super-gakky. That said, I can definitely see why you'd take a blob of 50 Mutants for melee.

I still think Daemonettes or Bloodletters make better sense than either Mutants or Marauders from a strictly performance-based analysis, but I've run no numbers.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

I'm not a fan of relying on powers that can be denied, personally.Luck is probability taken personally, granted, but my luck is super-gakky. That said, I can definitely see why you'd take a blob of 50 Mutants for melee.

I still think Daemonettes or Bloodletters make better sense than either Mutants or Marauders from a strictly performance-based analysis, but I've run no numbers.

The key to melee for renegades is atm the blob, an enforcer for obvious reasons, bit of luck for the Mutation roll (cp reroll) , a command squad with banner of hate and a coven of psykers for Unnatural vigour, in combination with the covenant of Khorne.

As for marauders, marauders are actually quite durable either with the 4+armor or with stalker, don't need to sacrifice dakka for chopping. They are just Rock solid allrounders and if the rule of three would not exist probably a problem unit.

Of course a bloodletter bomb is still more killy, but getting rid of the 50 man Mutant blobs is way more annoying, not to mention that they too have autoguns, something bloodletters don't have.


Edit: granted if you are unlucky, then no, don't go Mutant blob.
However denying is quite difficult against 3d6 throws for psy Tests.

Yeah, I seek to exclude chance as much as is possible in a game based on throwing dice around.

That way I only have my stupidity and lack of tactical nous to blame when I get wiped, haha.

At this point in the book's life cycle, are renegade ogryn worthwhile at all? Probably Valkyrie-dropped, though I guess the Chimera is an option.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Yeah, I seek to exclude chance as much as is possible in a game based on throwing dice around.

That way I only have my stupidity and lack of tactical nous to blame when I get wiped, haha.

It is the way of r&h to eliminate or stack the dice in your favour as much as possible.

Thanks to the random ld the whole army is anyways forced to Operate under that assumption, hence my reccomendation that if you intend to run militia run 2+ command squads and be willing to sacrifice some cp for a reroll for the command voxes.

Same goes with vigour, it basically nearly always Passes on a Psyker coven, it allows to stack the dice in your favour massively.

The banner of hate, beyond the fact that it is not the anti imperial only banner, makes losses into bonus attacks so a usefull Tool.


Then again tis also the way of renegades to be wiped.
Khorne does not care who's blood flows, only that it does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
At this point in the book's life cycle, are renegade ogryn worthwhile at all? Probably Valkyrie-dropped, though I guess the Chimera is an option.

Valkyire ones are worth it very much.
Chimeras are on the field and get most of the time insta destroyed after people realise that ogryn Berzerkers are very likely to drill holes in plans. (yes that is a joke based upon the ogryn Berserker Boss and his power drill)

Does ofcourse help that the valkyrie itself is also really decent at it's price.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Crimson fists getting a supliment in white dwarf.
While not optimal we could see some love in here. I don't like to cart around multiple books for games but at least it's not paying for an entire supliment book and maybe get a poster in it as well would be soooooooo meta.
What I'm proposing (and hoping if gws is actually listening like they claim) is that they make a Astra militrum supliment that add a renegade and heretic regiment that changes imperium to chaos and can only be allied to chaos with the following additions.
1. The ability to choose a chaos God or undivided which adds the keyword and a unique warlord trait for each and regimental bonus (IE nurgle gets fnp 6+ or +1 toughness khorne gets +1 attack etc).
2. Swap any Lasguns for pistol and CC weapon.
3. Summon deamons.
4. A few unique units ie beastmen and rogue psychers from blackstone fortress.
5. So we don't get abused maybe at the start of the turn roll 2d6 and that is the moral for our army for the turn and/or since it's a regiment means we cannot take non regimental units like priests and commissionars which we can replace with enforcers but I guess we can still take index units maybe?
6. Relics like daemonic weapons which can replace Astra relics.
7. Stratagems to replace Astra ones maybe keep a few generic ones like take cover but a few unique ones for each God like nurgle get Revolting Regeneration (2CP): use at the end of your movement phase. A NURGLE unit regains d3 wounds or regains 1 slain model if none are wounded regained models are at 1 wound. Using <god> keyword means better synergy with other forces.
8. Also for balance guardsmen need to be increased to 5pts each but that should be a change in the overall codex not just us. It would also promote taking conscripts aka rabble over guardsmen and make us more than a cp battery.

If you like this idea please email them and blast the fb page until they listen and bring the main force of chaos back into the tabletop.
This could also be a template for mechanicus and dark mechanicus
Thoughts or ideas?

Well, there's already the possibility of something. Looking over at the kill team rules, notice that the Servants of the Abyss (a.k.a. Black Legion Kill-Team) comes with beastmen (non-tzeenchy tzaangors still not far off orks in melee but a bit faster), rogue psykers (multiwound, far-more-likely-to-perils-but-better-at-casting), negavolt cultists (basically chaos electropriests) and traitor guard - flak armour, lasguns (or laspistol/blade), sergeant, higher Ld frag grenades et al.

The latter trades the orders mechanic for a nerve (i.e. morale) reroll whenever someone tall, dark and power-armoured is looking over their shoulder, essentially turning chaos marines into a commissar equivalent, and whilst the only assault weapon in the squad is the flamer, they do get the rather nice option to equip one model with krak grenades, giving you a short-range 'sawn off' grenade launcher without the expenditure.

Look here for the rules: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/05/5th-dec-kill-team-command-roster-and-the-servants-of-the-abyss-waiting-on-cr-linkgw-homepage-post-3/

locarno24 wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Crimson fists getting a supliment in white dwarf.
While not optimal we could see some love in here. I don't like to cart around multiple books for games but at least it's not paying for an entire supliment book and maybe get a poster in it as well would be soooooooo meta.
What I'm proposing (and hoping if gws is actually listening like they claim) is that they make a Astra militrum supliment that add a renegade and heretic regiment that changes imperium to chaos and can only be allied to chaos with the following additions.
1. The ability to choose a chaos God or undivided which adds the keyword and a unique warlord trait for each and regimental bonus (IE nurgle gets fnp 6+ or +1 toughness khorne gets +1 attack etc).
2. Swap any Lasguns for pistol and CC weapon.
3. Summon deamons.
4. A few unique units ie beastmen and rogue psychers from blackstone fortress.
5. So we don't get abused maybe at the start of the turn roll 2d6 and that is the moral for our army for the turn and/or since it's a regiment means we cannot take non regimental units like priests and commissionars which we can replace with enforcers but I guess we can still take index units maybe?
6. Relics like daemonic weapons which can replace Astra relics.
7. Stratagems to replace Astra ones maybe keep a few generic ones like take cover but a few unique ones for each God like nurgle get Revolting Regeneration (2CP): use at the end of your movement phase. A NURGLE unit regains d3 wounds or regains 1 slain model if none are wounded regained models are at 1 wound. Using <god> keyword means better synergy with other forces.
8. Also for balance guardsmen need to be increased to 5pts each but that should be a change in the overall codex not just us. It would also promote taking conscripts aka rabble over guardsmen and make us more than a cp battery.

If you like this idea please email them and blast the fb page until they listen and bring the main force of chaos back into the tabletop.
This could also be a template for mechanicus and dark mechanicus
Thoughts or ideas?

Well, there's already the possibility of something. Looking over at the kill team rules, notice that the Servants of the Abyss (a.k.a. Black Legion Kill-Team) comes with beastmen (non-tzeenchy tzaangors still not far off orks in melee but a bit faster), rogue psykers (multiwound, far-more-likely-to-perils-but-better-at-casting), negavolt cultists (basically chaos electropriests) and traitor guard - flak armour, lasguns (or laspistol/blade), sergeant, higher Ld frag grenades et al.

The latter trades the orders mechanic for a nerve (i.e. morale) reroll whenever someone tall, dark and power-armoured is looking over their shoulder, essentially turning chaos marines into a commissar equivalent, and whilst the only assault weapon in the squad is the flamer, they do get the rather nice option to equip one model with krak grenades, giving you a short-range 'sawn off' grenade launcher without the expenditure.

Look here for the rules: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/05/5th-dec-kill-team-command-roster-and-the-servants-of-the-abyss-waiting-on-cr-linkgw-homepage-post-3/

I did mention servants of the abyss aka blackstone fortress lol
And there is rules for regular 40k as well but they are near unusable, only get 0-2 units of traitor guard, 0-1 beastmen, 0-2 rogue psychers and the only hq is Mallax which is a black legion chaos lord with thunder hammer and none have weapon or unit size option. It’s a start but can only be used in a patrol detachment and not a sizeable one and no stratagems or relics etc


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For more info here is the tactica
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Renegades_And_Heretics(8E)

Servants of the Abyss[edit]
Just like the Gellerpox Infected, the Servants of the Abyss From Blackstone Fortress are another warband that fit in here (even if their leader is a Kayhoss Spess Merheen). They too will struggle in larger games due to their small detachment size, but they're a nice fluffy choice to run along any other Chaos army. Otherwise, you can just pick and choose what you like.
HQ[edit]
Obsidius Mallex - A Chaos Lord with a Thunder Hammer (unique in itself since CSMs normally don't get Thunder Hammers) and a plasma pistol. Has a downside that his Chaos Lord aura can only buff BLACK LEGION. Despite his hefty price tag at 102 points, he is more survivable than a Terminator Lord with a 4+ invuln and his whopping 5 wounds. If you are already playing BLACK LEGION, he's a good choice to accompany Abby for cheap; otherwise, if you have some extra points left over, throw him in with some Noise Marines and whatever else you need to fill in gaps in a Vanguard. Nothing exceptional, but a pretty solid choice overall.
Troop[edit]
Traitor Guardsman - Literally just Cultists. That said, they are a little less expensive with the stipulation that you can't customize them and you can have a max of 2 units of 7 of them. Overall, pass, unless you're in desperate need of troops and have 70 points left over for the whole pack.
Black Legionnaires - A unit of Chaos Space Marines, but only two can be taken. Their bolters and bolt pistols with chainswords leaves them pretty lackluster, if versatile. That said, in an army of low-save, morale-vulnerable hordes, having a single unit of morale-immune Marines to sit back and hold objectives is somewhat appealing, especially considering the pair costs only 26 points.
Chaos Beastmen - A unit of very choppy MEQs. They have the unique - and appealing - ability in which every time they charge, they gain one attack and one strength. Additionally every time they fight (RAW implies this includes your opponents fight phase), they gain an extra attack in melee. This makes them an ultimate suicide bezerker - costing only 24 points for the squad of 4, it would be quite practical to have them running behind a moving gunline of mutant rabble, who would soak up stray gunfire and overwatch, then follow up the charge with these monsters. The gods have blessed us indeed.
Elite[edit]
Rogue Psyker - These guys might take the place of the Rogue Psyker Coven as highly efficient Smite machines, even if they are more vulnerable. For 30 points, you get 4/5 of the wounds you get in a Coven, with the downside that every roll of doubles results in a peril. That said, you get more survivability for 60% of the cost of a Coven, albeit with slightly less reliability for Smite spam. Overall, bound to be good unit, and hopefully the limit of two is eventually lifted.
Negavolt Cultists - Literally just a unit of four electro priests with a 6+ save in addition to the 5+ FNP. In an already melee focused Chaos meta, they are a hard pass. It might be a good idea to mount these fethers on 25mm bases and call them Heretek Marauders, since their walking poses would make that easier than the regular electro priest's standing.
Unaligned Troops[edit]
Spindle Drones - As far as the kind folks here are concerned, these guys don't belong anywhere, but in the interest of getting gak done, they were placed here. For 60 points a pop, you get 4 W2, A2 MEQs with a somewhat disappointing 18" S3 pistol. Even if that weren't already a bargain, for the same reason as the Black Legionnaires above, they have a special ability similar to the Chaos Beastmen also in the pack, but much easier to manage - for every Spindle Drone that is wounded or dies, the remaining Spindle Drones gain +1 to their strength, damage, and AP. This may not sound amazing at first, but Marine players, either of the Loyalist or Chaos variety, should be used to MSU management. It should be second nature to ca/tg/irls like us to delegate wounds to a Space Marine squad, especially in the last year with our new W2 Primaris boys. If you keep them just out of trouble, which shouldn't be too hard given their T4, S4 and 4+ save, these guys can become excellent monster and character killers, becoming the suicide bomb of your dreams.
Note that RAI seems to be that with their UNALIGNED keyword, these guys should be able to go into any army, but possibly only in a separate detachment. They would probably fit well into a Dark Eldar Army as fluffy exotic toys, and would work well as hard hitting, short range character killers. Similarly, attaching them to an Elucidean Starstriders detachment would be fluffy and work well to give them some much-needed staying power in lower points games.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The traitor guard have a 5+ so not like cultists

I recently looked again at the sculpts for the Traitorguardsmen.

compare the lasguns, it's the Lucius pattern, the one that DKoK uses, albeit modified.
also their helmets, are differrent, still cadian like however more of a Stahlhelm flair.

I am or would not be surprised, that we eventually might get a release of either cultists or a propper rework of the lost and the damned list.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/11/40k-breaking-blackstone-fortress-servants-of-the-abyss-datasheets.html

Servants of the Abyss might be the stupidest rule I've ever seen.

Yeah, really dumb. The perk is what, a single drop deployment for the mediocre mishmash of units? On one hand, I guess GW could have just not given these units 40k rules, but on the other, that is some goofy nonsense.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Servants of the Abyss might be the stupidest rule I've ever seen.

I guess you haven’t seen the rules for renegades and heretics then.
Traitor guard are much better than cultists and militia, beastmen are badass melee beasts, rogue are great cheap smites and mallex has the only chaos thunder hammer who’s igreat

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Servants of the Abyss might be the stupidest rule I've ever seen.

I guess you haven’t seen the rules for renegades and heretics then.
Traitor guard are much better than cultists and militia, beastmen are badass melee beasts, rogue are great cheap smites and mallex has the only chaos thunder hammer who’s igreat

MHM:
Traitor guardsmen are limited to flamer, melee weapons and some lasguns.
They did not get a cheaper flamer. so still 7x4 +7pts. That's 35 pts. for 5 pts i get 10 militia members or mutants, which actually all can have guns or are better.

Beastmen would be nice, except they need to be deployed like the rest around malex, consequently that makes it really easy to either mess up and or to kill them off via tarpit.

The psykers have a higher tendency to blow themselves up even compared to psyker coven. Also just smite, so basically you get more options that are usefull with a regular covens.

You sacrifice one detachment slot for a patrol.
In competitive that is bad, especially since Chaos needs it for their arhiman and DP shenanigans.

They don't generate cp.

Mallex is specifically blacklegion and therefore gak.

do i need to go on.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Servants of the Abyss might be the stupidest rule I've ever seen.

I guess you haven’t seen the rules for renegades and heretics then.
Traitor guard are much better than cultists and militia, beastmen are badass melee beasts, rogue are great cheap smites and mallex has the only chaos thunder hammer who’s igreat

It doesn't really matter how much better their stats are when you're limited to fourteen of them.

Ditto, Beastmen. Except you only get four of them.

If this gets expanded into a proper Faction, I'll agree they're better than R&H. Right now, nyet.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Servants of the Abyss might be the stupidest rule I've ever seen.

I guess you haven’t seen the rules for renegades and heretics then.
Traitor guard are much better than cultists and militia, beastmen are badass melee beasts, rogue are great cheap smites and mallex has the only chaos thunder hammer who’s igreat

MHM:
Traitor guardsmen are limited to flamer, melee weapons and some lasguns.
They did not get a cheaper flamer. so still 7x4 +7pts. That's 35 pts. for 5 pts i get 10 militia members or mutants, which actually all can have guns or are better.

Beastmen would be nice, except they need to be deployed like the rest around malex, consequently that makes it really easy to either mess up and or to kill them off via tarpit.

The psykers have a higher tendency to blow themselves up even compared to psyker coven. Also just smite, so basically you get more options that are usefull with a regular covens.

You sacrifice one detachment slot for a patrol.
In competitive that is bad, especially since Chaos needs it for their arhiman and DP shenanigans.

They don't generate cp.

Mallex is specifically blacklegion and therefore gak.

do i need to go on.

Your entitled to your opinion
But traitor guard are the same points as militia but have double the armour save, higher ld, +1 to hit and the smaller squad size means that it’s less likely to lose units to moral and cheaper unit than even heretics can make.

Beastmen if used well can be used to charge into and damage a tarpit and easily make their 24 points back.

A psycher coven is also 100 points compared to 30 and doesn’t have the character rule. Also the re roll of 1 means more likely to smite.

But yeah it takes a detachment and doesn’t generate cp which blows, both heretics and servants have sweat fa to spend them on anyway unless we ally. If they just gave us renegades traitor guard as an option and customisable gear, some damn stratagems and relics I could see us being used semi competively especially if they made the servants an option in renegades and heretics

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Servants of the Abyss might be the stupidest rule I've ever seen.

I guess you haven’t seen the rules for renegades and heretics then.
Traitor guard are much better than cultists and militia, beastmen are badass melee beasts, rogue are great cheap smites and mallex has the only chaos thunder hammer who’s igreat

MHM:
Traitor guardsmen are limited to flamer, melee weapons and some lasguns.
They did not get a cheaper flamer. so still 7x4 +7pts. That's 35 pts. for 5 pts i get 10 militia members or mutants, which actually all can have guns or are better.

Beastmen would be nice, except they need to be deployed like the rest around malex, consequently that makes it really easy to either mess up and or to kill them off via tarpit.

The psykers have a higher tendency to blow themselves up even compared to psyker coven. Also just smite, so basically you get more options that are usefull with a regular covens.

You sacrifice one detachment slot for a patrol.
In competitive that is bad, especially since Chaos needs it for their arhiman and DP shenanigans.

They don't generate cp.

Mallex is specifically blacklegion and therefore gak.

do i need to go on.

Your entitled to your opinion
But traitor guard are the same points as militia but have double the armour save, higher ld, +1 to hit and the smaller squad size means that it’s less likely to lose units to moral and cheaper unit than even heretics can make.

Beastmen if used well can be used to charge into and damage a tarpit and easily make their 24 points back.

A psycher coven is also 100 points compared to 30 and doesn’t have the character rule. Also the re roll of 1 means more likely to smite.

But yeah it takes a detachment and doesn’t generate cp which blows, both heretics and servants have sweat fa to spend them on anyway unless we ally. If they just gave us renegades traitor guard as an option and customisable gear, some damn stratagems and relics I could see us being used semi competively especially if they made the servants an option in renegades and heretics

You only can field traitor guard if you field mallex. Which is a black legion lord, which means he is pointless.
LD is d6+2 which is 5.5 average. basically you can expect equal results.

A coven is mainly there to cast unnatural vigour.

Infact you can only field them when you field mallex. So by virtue of him beein 106 pts alone he makes me wonder why even bother.

Mallex +2 traitor guardsmen squads are alone 176 pts.

For that i get 2 Renegade commanders and 30 Infantry dudes.
I am outnumbering the servants by 17 models alone, have more ranged firepower and generated 5 cp, which potential allies actually can use.
infact if you add in the 2 psykers i will field 6 mortar teams, and spend 6 ppm to equip the milita with stubbers and have 6 points less.
I have again the ranged advantage, the mortars alone will squad wipe the traitor guardsmen on average. and we have not even started talking about the volume of fire the militia will provide. Meanwhile half the Traitor guardsman can do feth all in the 24"-12" range.

There's potential there, but as it stands it's a no from me.

Hopefully they'll flesh it out into a facsimile of the Tyrant lists from the Badab War IA books.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

There's potential there, but as it stands it's a no from me.

Hopefully they'll flesh it out into a facsimile of the Tyrant lists from the Badab War IA books.

Prefer IA 13
I don't want csm in the same list, except If they do it like the old lost and the damned campaign list.

Yeah, for sure if I had to choose one or the other I'd choose an IA13 style Faction.

A girl can dream of having the options of both, though.

Instead of sleeping, like a sane person, I spent hours last night just bouncing around between the R&H index list and Chapter Approved, hoping that some magical new awesome thing would pop out at me. SPOILER ALERT: it didn't, because there isn't one.

Nothing new, probably discussed in this thread already, but my plans are:

1.) Kind of a crappy way of getting 12 CP in the sense that the units aren't very good, but it would be 562 points for a brigade: 3x Commanders, 6x Mutants/Militia, 3x Enforcers, 3x Spawn, 3x Heavy Weapons Squads with mortars (would be cheaper with heavy stubbers but might as well take the mortars and not be as useless). Not god-awful for holding objectives, except the whole lacking objective-secured thing.

2.) 50-man blobs of mutants supported by Enforcers for morale immunity (at least FW's lack of updates have one positive effect). Pretty damn good screen, especially with the +1T result if one is lucky. Not sure it's ever worth taking a warlord from R&H but Slaanesh could help them move around.

2.) 6 BS3+ lascannons spread out between command and disciple squads, 300 points total for 6 and no other upgrades. Eh...? I guess it could be worse?

3.) Ogryns in Valkyries as discussed on the previous page. Of course losing a single one to a roll of 1 (or all 3-4 with my luck) for grav-chute insertion would suck ass, but whatever. If this unit gets to fight it seems really damn good, especially with the boss in the mix. Lol @ their weapons costing 1 point each. Insulting.

4.) Basilisks, Wyverns, and Leman Russes. No creativity or insight necessary. Just the base units, which are decent. Mortar teams would be so damn cheap and spammable, but due to BS5+ I feel like it's a wash. Maybe I'm underestimating the math, my off the cuff calculations weren't impressive.

Hours wasted, haha! *twitch*

Such mediocrity. Ugh.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Instead of sleeping, like a sane person, I spent hours last night just bouncing around between the R&H index list and Chapter Approved, hoping that some magical new awesome thing would pop out at me. SPOILER ALERT: it didn't, because there isn't one.

Nothing new, probably discussed in this thread already, but my plans are:

1.) Kind of a crappy way of getting 12 CP in the sense that the units aren't very good, but it would be 562 points for a brigade: 3x Commanders, 6x Mutants/Militia, 3x Enforcers, 3x Spawn, 3x Heavy Weapons Squads with mortars (would be cheaper with heavy stubbers but might as well take the mortars and not be as useless). Not god-awful for holding objectives, except the whole lacking objective-secured thing.

2.) 50-man blobs of mutants supported by Enforcers for morale immunity (at least FW's lack of updates have one positive effect). Pretty damn good screen, especially with the +1T result if one is lucky. Not sure it's ever worth taking a warlord from R&H but Slaanesh could help them move around.

2.) 6 BS3+ lascannons spread out between command and disciple squads, 300 points total for 6 and no other upgrades. Eh...? I guess it could be worse?

3.) Ogryns in Valkyries as discussed on the previous page. Of course losing a single one to a roll of 1 (or all 3-4 with my luck) for grav-chute insertion would suck ass, but whatever. If this unit gets to fight it seems really damn good, especially with the boss in the mix. Lol @ their weapons costing 1 point each. Insulting.

4.) Basilisks, Wyverns, and Leman Russes. No creativity or insight necessary. Just the base units, which are decent. Mortar teams would be so damn cheap and spammable, but due to BS5+ I feel like it's a wash. Maybe I'm underestimating the math, my off the cuff calculations weren't impressive.

Hours wasted, haha! *twitch*

Such mediocrity. Ugh.

Well techincally you could add in 5.) Marauder squads, stalker variant. 6ppm better veteran with morale immunity and an always on -1 to hit is not bad.

6.) mortar squads, are on average 21 shots, 7 hits, and against t3 targets, 5 wounds . +-. That is not bad, but the main reason you field them is to get LOS ignoring fire to remove objective camping squads, which they do.
HOWEVER: Heavy stubers are now 2 pts. 6 heavy stubber teams guarantee 6 hits for 18 pts less. that is a comparable result and reliable. Only problem is line of sight. other than that if you want a cheap brigade and or spam stubbers because WW1 reenactment go ahead.

Atm, i am more looking at equipped squads of militia since our equipment dropped quite massivly. Nade launches for 3 ppm stubbers for 2 ppm, that is fairly impressive. Only real downside we are again stuck with alteast voxes and command voxes. not really a downside but it locks the build in.

Those militia options are definitely better than they used to be due to the cheaper cost, but man 1 gun per unit at BS5+ is so disappointing. Frag grenades in the launcher might not be so bad against the appropriate targets, though.