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Hi there everyone! Has anyone considered adding a fortification network? The chaos bastion strangely enough is t10, unlike the imperial one at t9. 10 models can fire out of it and 20 can be safe inside. So what I am proposing is to take 3chaos bastions, put inside 15 +3 bs dudes with heavy/special weapons(shoot and the enemy if he is far, and when he gets close you got a 3 inch bonus charging distance thanks to disembarking) Sprincle in some heavy ig artillery that can hide behind the los blocking bastion. And finish it with some good csm allies so that you can take and hold objectives.

Alexisfairos wrote:
Hi there everyone! Has anyone considered adding a fortification network? The chaos bastion strangely enough is t10, unlike the imperial one at t9. 10 models can fire out of it and 20 can be safe inside. So what I am proposing is to take 3chaos bastions, put inside 15 +3 bs dudes with heavy/special weapons(shoot and the enemy if he is far, and when he gets close you got a 3 inch bonus charging distance thanks to disembarking) Sprincle in some heavy ig artillery that can hide behind the los blocking bastion. And finish it with some good csm allies so that you can take and hold objectives.

Yoiu mean basilisks?
Sure, why not, still you waste how many poitns to get a model that has some heavy bolters?
That can easily be destroyed?


EHHHH

So long the meta favours knights, so long a gak ton of AT is there and so long a shitton of AT is there bastions are kinda like a trap choice?

I get what your point is. But we must not forget that the bastion has 20 wounds, at t10 (lascannons wound on 5s) and a +3 save, may I say it is as tough as nails. You wont feel bad about the +5 hitting heavy bolter since we re playing renegades and heretics. We can put some good stuff inside the bastion for really cheap, like lascannons, and we won't face any casualties or moral which is one of our key weaknesses). I have not played against a castellan yet so I might not be the best guy, but I have been brainstorming a list like this for renegades and heretics, and it seems like a pretty good list on paper.

Thanks for replying, I will consider your thoughts on my next list!

I feel like fortifications are always a waste of points, and should only be used on battlefields to add flavor.

Alexisfairos wrote:
I get what your point is. But we must not forget that the bastion has 20 wounds, at t10 (lascannons wound on 5s) and a +3 save, may I say it is as tough as nails. You wont feel bad about the +5 hitting heavy bolter since we re playing renegades and heretics. We can put some good stuff inside the bastion for really cheap, like lascannons, and we won't face any casualties or moral which is one of our key weaknesses). I have not played against a castellan yet so I might not be the best guy, but I have been brainstorming a list like this for renegades and heretics, and it seems like a pretty good list on paper.

Thanks for replying, I will consider your thoughts on my next list!

I also doubt that you 'd get away with it having t10 even though IG bastions only having t9.

Makes zero sense.

I was deliberating over taking out a chunk of my force and instead throwing in an auxiliary detachment of Plague Marines, any thoughts?

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I was deliberating over taking out a chunk of my force and instead throwing in an auxiliary detachment of Plague Marines, any thoughts?

Since i don't have your list Handy i can't really judge it.

But plaguemarines are better then 90% then what the r&h index gives you anyways.

Not Online!!! wrote:
For anyone wanting to jump ship and play a better more guerilla style faction and happens to like nurgle:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cult_Tenebrous

Chaos nurgle Genestealer cult.

I’m trying to add a save and load function going then I’ll send you the beta if you like

would be very nice.
Thanks for that.

Brilliant idea, genestealer cult does fight how I imagine renegades would fight. Can use mutants for some of their units and ogryns as aberrants ect.
I’m now working on a list to try it out and their vehicles look very uprisings like. Can even take brood brothers for other units. Now which sect to take for the cult of tenebrous?
Blades cog or rusted claw?
The Preview of my program is almost ready but still has much to do before completed

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
For anyone wanting to jump ship and play a better more guerilla style faction and happens to like nurgle:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cult_Tenebrous

Chaos nurgle Genestealer cult.

I’m trying to add a save and load function going then I’ll send you the beta if you like

would be very nice.
Thanks for that.

Brilliant idea, genestealer cult does fight how I imagine renegades would fight. Can use mutants for some of their units and ogryns as aberrants ect.
I’m now working on a list to try it out and their vehicles look very uprisings like. Can even take brood brothers for other units. Now which sect to take for the cult of tenebrous?
Blades cog or rusted claw?
The Preview of my program is almost ready but still has much to do before completed

Some renegades, we still miss bloodpact like options, hereteks and their slave half servitors, etc.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
For anyone wanting to jump ship and play a better more guerilla style faction and happens to like nurgle:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cult_Tenebrous

Chaos nurgle Genestealer cult.

I’m trying to add a save and load function going then I’ll send you the beta if you like

would be very nice.
Thanks for that.

Brilliant idea, genestealer cult does fight how I imagine renegades would fight. Can use mutants for some of their units and ogryns as aberrants ect.
I’m now working on a list to try it out and their vehicles look very uprisings like. Can even take brood brothers for other units. Now which sect to take for the cult of tenebrous?
Blades cog or rusted claw?
The Preview of my program is almost ready but still has much to do before completed

Some renegades, we still miss bloodpact like options, hereteks and their slave half servitors, etc.

That is true, different armies different tactics. I imagine that many renegades are an uprising against the administration and ragtag and scrapped together equipment.
But the Bloodpact is awesome I love the Vrak renegades as you know

I am wondering, would people be interested in a common effort to fix the IA13 list up for use in 8th?

Then potentially send it to FW?

I mean i got now 70 matches with the index list under my belt, granted not competitive but still, at this point i feel like there needs something to be done.

Worth a shot, but I'm cynically-minded and assume that list will never be updated again.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I am wondering, would people be interested in a common effort to fix the IA13 list up for use in 8th?

Then potentially send it to FW?

I mean i got now 70 matches with the index list under my belt, granted not competitive but still, at this point i feel like there needs something to be done.

Why not? Couldn’t be much worse than what we have now.
I still think that a brood brothers like rule would be easier with a few additions ie swapping lasgun for cc and pistol, deamonic summons, the gods keyword(ie nurgle) with a bonus for it. Our own relics and stratagems and a few extra units (ie the ones from blackstone fortress)
But anything will do and I will back you up.

I already sent a message to the rules feedback asking them to do something that would allow Renegades to mix with CSM and CD since that is what this faction was built to do. I don't expect anything to come of it though...

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I already sent a message to the rules feedback asking them to do something that would allow Renegades to mix with CSM and CD since that is what this faction was built to do. I don't expect anything to come of it though...

I’ve messaged them afew times as well. But we need more people to message them until they notice us I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We may have a chance with the white dwarf indexes but hopefully our own complete codex (all in one so we don’t need to buy 2 fully priced books). As long as it’s taken over by someone that is not forgeworld. They suck at rules.

Totally agree with you there. FW are in no place to write 40k rules any more, for whatever reason.

As for the homebrew/fix stuff, I made a thread for it, along with a pittance of my feelings on the subject. Would love to hear what you folks are thinking.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/770964.page#10333790

Don’t wanna derail this thread from what little there is to discuss about the actual list.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Totally agree with you there. FW are in no place to write 40k rules any more, for whatever reason.

As for the homebrew/fix stuff, I made a thread for it, along with a pittance of my feelings on the subject. Would love to hear what you folks are thinking.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/770964.page#10333790

Don’t wanna derail this thread from what little there is to discuss about the actual list.

It’s not derailing it and their is plenty to discuss on the actual list imho. Especially with how bad our list is and need to cheese as much as possible to compete in a super casual game. I will read when I can

So I would like my R&H brethren's feedback on this one. Which is a better heavy shooting support option: CSM or the Naked A&M picks that R&H can pull from?

Basically, I love my defilers from the CSM heavy list, but that is about it (and they aren't even that shooty, just an all around solid unit). Havocs do some nasty damage, but have the fortitude of cracked glass. If I don't get T1, and my army is sprawling so reduced odds there, those fellas are almost always popped immediately. I can give them cover with 13ppm marines or a 72 ppm Rhino, but then they are costing me so much and I am effectively hitting on 4's when they come out if I make use of the Rhino. Obliterators are usually solid, but can be inconsistent and don't contribute until T2 after the deep strike changes. Predators are super over costed. Forgefiend's hades autocannon pretty much always underwhelms despite how cool it looks. Hellbrute riflemen look nice on paper, but in practice they tend to be quite vulnerable in the current heavy AT weapon meta and rarely get much done.

I have incorporated an R&H detachment with much success and have been chewing on just swapping out my CSM Heavy/Shooty options for Basilisks, Sentinels, Leman Russ, and any other naked Astra Militarum big guns. Am I overlooking some fatal flaw here, because the CSM codex looks a little less appealing every day. I already have some R&H heavy weapon teams and have really enjoyed the back line presence they bring.

Kias wrote:
So I would like my R&H brethren's feedback on this one. Which is a better heavy shooting support option: CSM or the Naked A&M picks that R&H can pull from?

Basically, I love my defilers from the CSM heavy list, but that is about it (and they aren't even that shooty, just an all around solid unit). Havocs do some nasty damage, but have the fortitude of cracked glass. If I don't get T1, and my army is sprawling so reduced odds there, those fellas are almost always popped immediately. I can give them cover with 13ppm marines or a 72 ppm Rhino, but then they are costing me so much and I am effectively hitting on 4's when they come out if I make use of the Rhino. Obliterators are usually solid, but can be inconsistent and don't contribute until T2 after the deep strike changes. Predators are super over costed. Forgefiend's hades autocannon pretty much always underwhelms despite how cool it looks. Hellbrute riflemen look nice on paper, but in practice they tend to be quite vulnerable in the current heavy AT weapon meta and rarely get much done.

I have incorporated an R&H detachment with much success and have been chewing on just swapping out my CSM Heavy/Shooty options for Basilisks, Sentinels, Leman Russ, and any other naked Astra Militarum big guns. Am I overlooking some fatal flaw here, because the CSM codex looks a little less appealing every day. I already have some R&H heavy weapon teams and have really enjoyed the back line presence they bring.

Things you miss out :
Stratagems, especially cacophony.
Traits.
The fact that all of these vehicles have better versions in the Am codex thanks to traits.
R&H pay spike taxes, of 25%, cultists are the same pts as their csm counterpart but with less usability and flexibility.
Random leadership.



Then there is the fact that compared to the IA 13 veterans and before the list has removed 25% of the unique units.

Bs and ws 4+ is best case.

Granted heavy options like lemans and Basilisks are still better then csm heavy options, which are not good anyways.
Still they don't make an army and their borrow codex just does it better.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Kias wrote:
So I would like my R&H brethren's feedback on this one. Which is a better heavy shooting support option: CSM or the Naked A&M picks that R&H can pull from?

Basically, I love my defilers from the CSM heavy list, but that is about it (and they aren't even that shooty, just an all around solid unit). Havocs do some nasty damage, but have the fortitude of cracked glass. If I don't get T1, and my army is sprawling so reduced odds there, those fellas are almost always popped immediately. I can give them cover with 13ppm marines or a 72 ppm Rhino, but then they are costing me so much and I am effectively hitting on 4's when they come out if I make use of the Rhino. Obliterators are usually solid, but can be inconsistent and don't contribute until T2 after the deep strike changes. Predators are super over costed. Forgefiend's hades autocannon pretty much always underwhelms despite how cool it looks. Hellbrute riflemen look nice on paper, but in practice they tend to be quite vulnerable in the current heavy AT weapon meta and rarely get much done.

I have incorporated an R&H detachment with much success and have been chewing on just swapping out my CSM Heavy/Shooty options for Basilisks, Sentinels, Leman Russ, and any other naked Astra Militarum big guns. Am I overlooking some fatal flaw here, because the CSM codex looks a little less appealing every day. I already have some R&H heavy weapon teams and have really enjoyed the back line presence they bring.

Things you miss out :
Stratagems, especially cacophony.
Traits.
The fact that all of these vehicles have better versions in the Am codex thanks to traits.
R&H pay spike taxes, of 25%, cultists are the same pts as their csm counterpart but with less usability and flexibility.
Random leadership.



Then there is the fact that compared to the IA 13 veterans and before the list has removed 25% of the unique units.

Bs and ws 4+ is best case.

Granted heavy options like lemans and Basilisks are still better then csm heavy options, which are not good anyways.
Still they don't make an army and their borrow codex just does it better.

To clarify, this is to support a daemon army. So I am getting my Daemon Warlord and the Daemon stratagems to spend CP on. I mostly just use CSM to support that these days. Veterans and Cacophony certainly are nice to have, but the units best suited to take advantage of that are expensive and very delicate due to the on-going power armor problem in 8e.

I won't be needing any of the troops from R&H, just cherry picking the best toys that gives me some ranged presence that can threaten enemy armor.

Tbf if you play daemons, why even bother with csm?


Again, you asked what you miss, you miss the fact that renegades are now only "usefull" as a soup ingredient.

Usefull as in generate cp and get los ignoring fire.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Tbf if you play daemons, why even bother with csm?


Again, you asked what you miss, you miss the fact that renegades are now only "usefull" as a soup ingredient.

Usefull as in generate cp and get los ignoring fire.

I wouldn’t say only useful for cp. if we take our “good units” which are elites and not take our trash troops choices we wouldn’t generate much lol.
Still gotta love our ws/bs 3 elites

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Totally agree with you there. FW are in no place to write 40k rules any more, for whatever reason.

As for the homebrew/fix stuff, I made a thread for it, along with a pittance of my feelings on the subject. Would love to hear what you folks are thinking.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/770964.page#10333790

Don’t wanna derail this thread from what little there is to discuss about the actual list.

It’s not derailing it and their is plenty to discuss on the actual list imho. Especially with how bad our list is and need to cheese as much as possible to compete in a super casual game. I will read when I can

Apologies for my negativity, I wasn’t trying to sell anyone’s tactical acumen short. I definitely would love to read continuing discussion as well.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Totally agree with you there. FW are in no place to write 40k rules any more, for whatever reason.

As for the homebrew/fix stuff, I made a thread for it, along with a pittance of my feelings on the subject. Would love to hear what you folks are thinking.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/770964.page#10333790

Don’t wanna derail this thread from what little there is to discuss about the actual list.

It’s not derailing it and their is plenty to discuss on the actual list imho. Especially with how bad our list is and need to cheese as much as possible to compete in a super casual game. I will read when I can

Apologies for my negativity, I wasn’t trying to sell anyone’s tactical acumen short. I definitely would love to read continuing discussion as well.

Lol don’t sweat it bro. We are all masochists here has are we wouldn’t be playing the worst army in the game lol.
The stats don’t lie about it either https://www.40kstats.com/faction-breakdown-report.
In the big tournaments only 3 of us were crazed enough to main renegade guard and they were all knocked out in the first or second match.
But we make good soup and and a 73% faction win rate competitively.
We are at best ok at super casual games and some tactics really work well aka ogryns air assault

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Totally agree with you there. FW are in no place to write 40k rules any more, for whatever reason.

As for the homebrew/fix stuff, I made a thread for it, along with a pittance of my feelings on the subject. Would love to hear what you folks are thinking.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/770964.page#10333790

Don’t wanna derail this thread from what little there is to discuss about the actual list.

It’s not derailing it and their is plenty to discuss on the actual list imho. Especially with how bad our list is and need to cheese as much as possible to compete in a super casual game. I will read when I can

Apologies for my negativity, I wasn’t trying to sell anyone’s tactical acumen short. I definitely would love to read continuing discussion as well.

Lol don’t sweat it bro. We are all masochists here has are we wouldn’t be playing the worst army in the game lol.
The stats don’t lie about it either https://www.40kstats.com/faction-breakdown-report.
In the big tournaments only 3 of us were crazed enough to main renegade guard and they were all knocked out in the first or second match.
But we make good soup and and a 73% faction win rate competitively.
We are at best ok at super casual games and some tactics really work well aka ogryns air assault

I thought Corsairs were the worst army in the game

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Totally agree with you there. FW are in no place to write 40k rules any more, for whatever reason.

As for the homebrew/fix stuff, I made a thread for it, along with a pittance of my feelings on the subject. Would love to hear what you folks are thinking.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/770964.page#10333790

Don’t wanna derail this thread from what little there is to discuss about the actual list.

It’s not derailing it and their is plenty to discuss on the actual list imho. Especially with how bad our list is and need to cheese as much as possible to compete in a super casual game. I will read when I can

Apologies for my negativity, I wasn’t trying to sell anyone’s tactical acumen short. I definitely would love to read continuing discussion as well.

Lol don’t sweat it bro. We are all masochists here has are we wouldn’t be playing the worst army in the game lol.
The stats don’t lie about it either https://www.40kstats.com/faction-breakdown-report.
In the big tournaments only 3 of us were crazed enough to main renegade guard and they were all knocked out in the first or second match.
But we make good soup and and a 73% faction win rate competitively.
We are at best ok at super casual games and some tactics really work well aka ogryns air assault

I thought Corsairs were the worst army in the game

They can be used with yannari which is one of the best in the game and all aldari and drakari are meta atm

That is not entirely true anymore, since you can't field a detachment anymore and mixin got prohibited thanks to the battlebrothers FAQ.

For the Ogryn drop, I assume it's 4 in a Valk? I was gonna say maybe an Enforcer but there's no point with so few models in the unit. And (of course) nothing can buff them in any way, I guess other than a psyker with the warp charge 10 power, but that doesn't seem really worth the gamble. Might as well just bring the 4th roidragebro.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
For the Ogryn drop, I assume it's 4 in a Valk? I was gonna say maybe an Enforcer but there's no point with so few models in the unit. And (of course) nothing can buff them in any way, I guess other than a psyker with the warp charge 10 power, but that doesn't seem really worth the gamble. Might as well just bring the 4th roidragebro.

I throw in a fire and forget PF commander sometimes.

But yes optimally 3 brutes and a boss with energy drill.

also memeber, Ogryns have a fixed morale of 7. chances are they don't lose morale casualities.

Ah yeah I forgot they were one of the few with fixed leadership. Sweet!