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Anyone else a little bit grumpy about how much better a non-imperial guard force the Genestealer Cults are compared to us R&H?

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
For the Ogryn drop, I assume it's 4 in a Valk? I was gonna say maybe an Enforcer but there's no point with so few models in the unit. And (of course) nothing can buff them in any way, I guess other than a psyker with the warp charge 10 power, but that doesn't seem really worth the gamble. Might as well just bring the 4th roidragebro.

I use 3 ogryns with the boss and a few characters like commanders to summon a plague bearer bomb.
Best way to get a first turn charge to smash something good and break up their deployment.
But just ogryns work great I’m tempted to run plague ogryns if I don’t take characters


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 ph34r wrote:
Anyone else a little bit grumpy about how much better a non-imperial guard force the Genestealer Cults are compared to us R&H?

Every army is better than ours so it doesn’t surprise me. What really makes me go khornate is the fact that we seem to of been forgotten and overlooked. So many cry sbout Grey knights but no one does about us. Even a minor faction like genestealer cult get a codex before us :(

I hope that the chaos count down maybe something for us and there is a big reveal soon but at this point I’m close to giving up hope for renegades and heretics as a competive force.

Not surprised, but not really grumpy. As ulfhednir86 says, every army is better.

I'm just grumpy we have such a small army list compared to loyalist Imperial Guard.

I think I'm in the minority on this one, and I won't keep harping on it, but it's lame. In the end, it just means I have to run the army as loyalists with chaos skin, but I can't run them with my World Eaters or daemons, which is somewhat lame.

 ph34r wrote:
Anyone else a little bit grumpy about how much better a non-imperial guard force the Genestealer Cults are compared to us R&H?

No, i am happy for them that they get a good list.

What i am not happy about and that is just my two cents, is the fact that some of their stuff seems very overperforming.

That said, i wish nobody to suffer through a index list like renegades, or corsairs.
Heck even DKOK is a slog.




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 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Not surprised, but not really grumpy. As ulfhednir86 says, every army is better.

I'm just grumpy we have such a small army list compared to loyalist Imperial Guard.

I think I'm in the minority on this one, and I won't keep harping on it, but it's lame. In the end, it just means I have to run the army as loyalists with chaos skin, but I can't run them with my World Eaters or daemons, which is somewhat lame.

Just to point it out:

In 7th we had the following troop choices:

Militia, but seriously considering how changing they were when another demagogue was chosen they really represent something along the line of: (traitor guard, Militia propper, Horde, Servitorhorde) Say we count them as 3 for now.

Mutant rabble:

Veterans:

Grenadiers:

Plague Zombies:

Total:7 troop choices. /5 without the variants.
_______________________________

Now we got:

Militia

Cultists

Mutants.

3. 1 of these got gutted, Veterans have just pissed off into the void, same with zombies, and grenadiers.

____________________________________

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Anyone else a little bit grumpy about how much better a non-imperial guard force the Genestealer Cults are compared to us R&H?

No, i am happy for them that they get a good list.

What i am not happy about and that is just my two cents, is the fact that some of their stuff seems very overperforming.

That said, i wish nobody to suffer through a index list like renegades, or corsairs.
Heck even DKOK is a slog.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Not surprised, but not really grumpy. As ulfhednir86 says, every army is better.

I'm just grumpy we have such a small army list compared to loyalist Imperial Guard.

I think I'm in the minority on this one, and I won't keep harping on it, but it's lame. In the end, it just means I have to run the army as loyalists with chaos skin, but I can't run them with my World Eaters or daemons, which is somewhat lame.

Just to point it out:

In 7th we had the following troop choices:

Militia, but seriously considering how changing they were when another demagogue was chosen they really represent something along the line of: (traitor guard, Militia propper, Horde, Servitorhorde) Say we count them as 3 for now.

Mutant rabble:

Veterans:

Grenadiers:

Plague Zombies:

Total:7 troop choices. /5 without the variants.
_______________________________

Now we got:

Militia

Cultists

Mutants.

3. 1 of these got gutted, Veterans have just pissed off into the void, same with zombies, and grenadiers.

____________________________________

And our troops have no armour (half that of guard and even genestealer cult) and dint get any bonuses that really help convents are crap while loyalists get regimental bonuses and orders as well as more skilled than militia and cheaper than cultists not to mention guards superior ld.
It’s why I was hoping servants of the abyss traitor guard and beastmen could be used to make up for that. But alas not to be.
If loyalist guardsmen were 5ppm that would help but we need an overhaul.
Our elites are ok but everything else is copied from am or broken bad.

Imagine if you will this, R&H militia and mutants were 3ppm when guardsmen were still 5 ppm.

You could get guardsmen stats including sv and Ws/BS if you upgraded them as bloddy handed reaver demagogue, you'd also pay 5ppm then.

Now guard is 4ppm.
Conscripts are 4ppm.

Militia has any right to be 3ppm with a 5+sv. Now.

I am not advocating for 2ppm milita, that'd be insane, but either reintroduce milita training for 1ppm and lower the price for militia to3 ppm and give militia a 5+ sv, or hike the price on IG by 1 and we still gain a SV of 5+.

That would be needed before we even can compare.


Edit: it also does not help that we literally lost 50% of our troop options and got cultists, shittier versions of them even, as a replacement.
Which to this day are not the right size of squad.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Imagine if you will this, R&H militia and mutants were 3ppm when guardsmen were still 5 ppm.

You could get guardsmen stats including sv and Ws/BS if you upgraded them as bloddy handed reaver demagogue, you'd also pay 5ppm then.

Now guard is 4ppm.
Conscripts are 4ppm.

Militia has any right to be 3ppm with a 5+sv. Now.

I am not advocating for 2ppm milita, that'd be insane, but either reintroduce milita training for 1ppm and lower the price for militia to3 ppm and give militia a 5+ sv, or hike the price on IG by 1 and we still gain a SV of 5+.

That would be needed before we even can compare.


Edit: it also does not help that we literally lost 50% of our troop options and got cultists, shittier versions of them even, as a replacement.
Which to this day are not the right size of squad.

agreed on all accounts. And we need better subfaction buffs including the chaos god keyword, a few stratagems, atleast 1 relic like a deamon weapon then we could be competitive.people had complained to me that I want my army to be op. No I just want every army to be competitive and R&H is definitely not that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe even an upgrade or rule to allow militia to re roll failed hit rolls and give them a 5+ armour save will go a long way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe the Bloodpact subfaction could fire/fight twice a turn just like their world eater brothers and not as great as orders since orders can do both anyway and more but still better than what we have now.

I’m also a fan of maggotkin style books, have a book for each god and units with that keyword and benefits fir them

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/770964.page

Feedback and proposed rule changes.

So far we got this put toghether.

Not Online!!! wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/770964.page

Feedback and proposed rule changes.

So far we got this put toghether.

Cool, had a look. Looks really good. We really need an update.
But back to the tactics. I use my marauders as snipers but has anyone tried them as other load outs like grenade launchers?
How did they go?

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/770964.page

Feedback and proposed rule changes.

So far we got this put toghether.

Cool, had a look. Looks really good. We really need an update.
But back to the tactics. I use my marauders as snipers but has anyone tried them as other load outs like grenade launchers?
How did they go?

Hmm, tbh i would not particulary recommend you the nade launcher, seems a bit like a waste of a good bs profile.

Also there is the plasmagun option.
Or even Melta.

That said in small scale matches nade launchers are a good enough option, out of Personal experience i can say that. (500pts)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/770964.page

Feedback and proposed rule changes.

So far we got this put toghether.

Cool, had a look. Looks really good. We really need an update.
But back to the tactics. I use my marauders as snipers but has anyone tried them as other load outs like grenade launchers?
How did they go?

Hmm, tbh i would not particulary recommend you the nade launcher, seems a bit like a waste of a good bs profile.

Also there is the plasmagun option.
Or even Melta.

That said in small scale matches nade launchers are a good enough option, out of Personal experience i can say that. (500pts)

So not shotguns and flamers?

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

So not shotguns and flamers?

Ehm, Well if you go for a melee squad why not?
Altough as said above that isn't really necessary since marauders anyways always have 2 A.

The reason I though I’d grenade launchers is because the multiple fire modes meaning a 3pt weapon is like a plasma shot just -1 str and less ap or d6 shots at 24” isn’t bad. When I fix the loading problem with my mathhammer program I can run it but I think it’s worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
The reason I though I’d grenade launchers is because the multiple fire modes meaning a 3pt weapon is like a plasma shot just -1 str and less ap but still 2 damage or d6 shots at 24” isn’t bad. When I fix the loading problem with my mathhammer program I can run it but I think it’s worth it.

My thoughts on a lost and damned list with gene cults (chaos uprising )

I can deep strike half of the gene cult into objectives or hide the tanks.
Followed up with the infamous para ogryns alpha strike and a chimera ogryns .

Thoughts welcome.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [58 PL, 949pts, 7CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw

Detachment CP [5CP]

Stratagem: Grandsire's Gifts [-1CP]: 1 Extra Sacred Relic

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Entropic Touch

Magus [4 PL, 80pts]: Metallophagic Stave, Power: Might From Beyond, Power: Mind Control

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 56pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 56pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 56pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 52pts]: 8x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 52pts]: 8x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 52pts]: 8x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 164pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 164pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 164pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [36 PL, 549pts, 1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Brood Brothers

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Ogryns [5 PL, 72pts]: 2x Ogryn, Ogryn Bone 'ead

Ogryns [5 PL, 72pts]: 2x Ogryn, Ogryn Bone 'ead

Special Weapons Squad [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

Special Weapons Squad [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 42pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [8 PL, 121pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera [6 PL, 88pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

++ Total: [94 PL, 1498pts, 8CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
My thoughts on a lost and damned list with gene cults (chaos uprising )

I can deep strike half of the gene cult into objectives or hide the tanks.
Followed up with the infamous para ogryns alpha strike and a chimera ogryns .

Thoughts welcome.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [58 PL, 949pts, 7CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw

Detachment CP [5CP]

Stratagem: Grandsire's Gifts [-1CP]: 1 Extra Sacred Relic

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Entropic Touch

Magus [4 PL, 80pts]: Metallophagic Stave, Power: Might From Beyond, Power: Mind Control

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 56pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 56pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 56pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 2x Grenade Launcher
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 52pts]: 8x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 52pts]: 8x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 52pts]: 8x Neophyte Hybrid (Lasgun)
. Neophyte Hybrid (Stubber): Heavy Stubber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 164pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 164pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 164pts]: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [36 PL, 549pts, 1CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Brood Brothers

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Ogryns [5 PL, 72pts]: 2x Ogryn, Ogryn Bone 'ead

Ogryns [5 PL, 72pts]: 2x Ogryn, Ogryn Bone 'ead

Special Weapons Squad [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

Special Weapons Squad [2 PL, 30pts]: 3x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 42pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [8 PL, 121pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera [6 PL, 88pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

++ Total: [94 PL, 1498pts, 8CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I would migrate that list to the Genestealer tactica.

I also have no idea of how to run a Genestealer list....


_____________________________________________

The nade launcher for Marauders or dsciples for that matter at 3 pts is actually solid investment.

Basically the genecult units are 5ppm guard but can take wounds from characters ona 4+ (very tyrant like), the army has deep strike( very insurgency like imho) and the regiment bonus is +1 to armour save against ap0 and -1 weapons. Very nurgle like imho.
One of the has is a psycher and the other is a unit bubble buff(modeled with chaos iconography)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I get your gist wrong page.
Just so hard to make renegades work as a mono list semi competitively


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There is a hopeful peanut in the stool that is the treatment of the heretic militrum by gw.

Here http://natfka.blogspot.com/2019/02/timeframe-for-shadowspear-boxset.html?m=1

It does mention
“They confirmed SOB is not the ONLY other codex coming out this year. Basically said there are going to be books in between.” and
“ Asked about old books getting looked at and said some would be re-done eventually but keep in mind 9 month lead times on books.“
I know we have all been let down so even I’m not sanguine about it including us but it does mean we can hope to hope of a codex or at least another index.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So you changed your mind about grenade launcher marauders ?

Never was opposed to them, more thinking it a waste of a BS3+ Plattform which could be used for plasma, however in small matches i would consider it a good idea.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Never was opposed to them, more thinking it a waste of a BS3+ Plattform which could be used for plasma, however in small matches i would consider it a good idea.

I do find a that sniper rifles and bolter does give me a lot of control though and in many cases made opponents keep their buff characters out of the fight.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Never was opposed to them, more thinking it a waste of a BS3+ Plattform which could be used for plasma, however in small matches i would consider it a good idea.

I do find a that sniper rifles and bolter does give me a lot of control though and in many cases made opponents keep their buff characters out of the fight.

Indeed, but that is a very specific setup, namely charachter bullying (mostly against IG i suspect), meanwhile you asked if the Nade launcher was a decent option, which is more inline with the other special weapons you got, and sadly the nade launcher scales not to well with the point size of matches.

That said, in low pts matches, the nade launcher is in essence a budget plasma gun, and therefore actually farly decent little choice in my opinion.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Never was opposed to them, more thinking it a waste of a BS3+ Plattform which could be used for plasma, however in small matches i would consider it a good idea.

I do find a that sniper rifles and bolter does give me a lot of control though and in many cases made opponents keep their buff characters out of the fight.

Indeed, but that is a very specific setup, namely charachter bullying (mostly against IG i suspect), meanwhile you asked if the Nade launcher was a decent option, which is more inline with the other special weapons you got, and sadly the nade launcher scales not to well with the point size of matches.

That said, in low pts matches, the nade launcher is in essence a budget plasma gun, and therefore actually farly decent little choice in my opinion.

Actually the best my sniper marauders have done was against deathwatch (and covenant of nurgle was actually helpful) I had a few lucky 6s on some of his characters and then he held them back until the last turn meaning his army didn’t have character buffs for 2-3 turns helped.
It was my first pure r&h game and although I lost I learnt that drop ogryns and MLS are great, sniper marauders are great at control. Our troops are tissue paper no matter how many there are, play as competitively as possible for a chance to win casual games and r&h need allies to be any use.

So it probably won’t help much, but you guys might want to check the new black stone stuff. Chaos ogryn and a traitor commissar are being released, and will get 40k rules.

Probably not renegades keyword but still.

Niiru wrote:
So it probably won’t help much, but you guys might want to check the new black stone stuff. Chaos ogryn and a traitor commissar are being released, and will get 40k rules.

Probably not renegades keyword but still.

Even if they aren't, they would make great stand-ins for Renegade Ogryn and Renegade Commanders. This makes me so happy

If we get this lost and the damned army and they are propperly made it would be easy for us to just change.

At this point this is our best hope.

As much as I would love to make a skeleton guard R&H army, I just don't have the skill to make it happen. So I've decided to just use the traitor guard from black fortress as my militia. Still expecting it to look cool though

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
As much as I would love to make a skeleton guard R&H army, I just don't have the skill to make it happen. So I've decided to just use the traitor guard from black fortress as my militia. Still expecting it to look cool though

Will still hope for a regular kit though.

Probably should keep this thread for tactics, I did post something in Rumors to discuss these possibilities:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/772810.page#10380167

Anyone think we should add something to the codex about the Beastmen?

I'm good for a specific Beastmen Datasheet, honestly.

Not that I don't want them included, just that I think you can use the Mutant Rabble Datasheet to represent Beastmen and a whole bunch of other abhumans too.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm good for a specific Beastmen Datasheet, honestly.

Not that I don't want them included, just that I think you can use the Mutant Rabble Datasheet to represent Beastmen and a whole bunch of other abhumans too.

Mhm, that or you could handle it with the old rules that allowed you to buy the upgrade for ogryns and other squads.

On the other hand including the bsf beastmen in my proposed document could work, however may lead to unfun and strange interactions with my proposed rule Set.

On that note, I had a question of the rules. The PDF says Disciple Squads only have the option of buying a Command-Vox. Do they just not have access to a normal Vox?