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Personally I love the crown for gunline troops since they only have a 6+ save so the crown almost doubles their effectiveness.
The point about hwt with autocannons over diciples is tempting with only 1 point more but more hits, what is the threat is that they don’t have bodies to take the hits before the big guns drop and only 6+ armour.
Still maybe worth it.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Personally I love the crown for gunline troops since they only have a 6+ save so the crown almost doubles their effectiveness.
The point about hwt with autocannons over diciples is tempting with only 1 point more but more hits, what is the threat is that they don’t have bodies to take the hits before the big guns drop and only 6+ armour.
Still maybe worth it.

I also don't think Hwt with anything more expensive then 5 pts is worth it due to the 6+
Disciples atleast have a 5+ and hit atleast once with an autocannon.

 brugner8 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:
THe noctilith crown works on our tanks!
It is a small but happy news, I'll try to field this:

2x commander
2x 10 militia squad
2x 50 renegade rubble
1x enforcer

Baneblade, macharius heavy tank and a macharius vulcan circling a nocitlith crown.

The aim is just sit down and try to have fun :-)

If the tanks make it to turn 2 or 3 to get the 5++, that could work.

The hull of baneblade is 5,5 inches !

Yeah, but it is too long to fit even if its width can fit at one location.

 ph34r wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:
THe noctilith crown works on our tanks!
It is a small but happy news, I'll try to field this:

2x commander
2x 10 militia squad
2x 50 renegade rubble
1x enforcer

Baneblade, macharius heavy tank and a macharius vulcan circling a nocitlith crown.

The aim is just sit down and try to have fun :-)

If the tanks make it to turn 2 or 3 to get the 5++, that could work.

The hull of baneblade is 5,5 inches !

Yeah, but it is too long to fit even if its width can fit at one location.

I mean you could get lucky and model it on a Baneblade and your enemy is so impressed that he let's you do that.

my mathammer program.
Still very beta but hopefully helpful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Against marines Heavy bolter HWT are better and more value than mortars

There is some problems with the weapon data loading just be warned

Turns out my friends won't let me use the codex we all made, so I guess I'm going to have to return to the crappy 8th edition one.

Greetings everybody! New Renegades and Heretics player here.

Background -- Long time Imperial player, I'm just now getting into 8th Edition, after having played a bit of 7th, 6th, and 5th, and a Whole Lot of 2nd ed a long time ago. I've been slowly gathering the parts for a Emperor's Children army for the past 8 years, and now I'm working on building an all-Slaanesh force (along with everyone else right now I suppose?). Part of that is building what I was hoping would be a functional, self-contained Slaaneshi Chaos Cult army.

I've looked over the army list in IA, I've read about the opinions and tactics here and elsewhere, and all I can think is ......

....WOW ....
....what am I getting myself in to.

Looking at the army list, I'm not even sure what to make of it. A bunch of squads that are all nearly the same, with just Slight Variations of stats and Slight variations of weapon options, without the rules to make any of them really stand out as what I should take or what I should try to build a force around. (My roommate through 5th, 6th, and 7th ed was a competitive Imperial Guard and a Chaos Marine player, so I saw what made those army lists Go)

And Renegades and Heretics is neither of those, but ... I can't exactly tell what else it is either. From people's comments it's a stripped down version of an earlier edition army list that used to function, but that I showed up too late to?

Anyway! I don't say any of this to complain -- I'm Still Going To Make The Dang Army, as I'm doing this for the lols, as they say. I used to play Marines competitively (I had to, to play against my friends), but I'm really just looking for a casual army to play casual games with, and if I can manage a 50% win ratio (or heck, a 100% loss ratio of close games) I'll be satisfied.

Looking at the Renegades and Heretics list, I'm wondering if that's possible, particularly for an Infantry, Slaanesh based army, rather than a Mechanized Wanna-be IG tank force. I'm going to have a force of Emperor's Children and Daemons, and a Knight or two available to go along with it -- but I'd really like to be able to play as Solo R+H as possible without just being eternally stomped.

A lot of what I would *like* to be in the army is based around what I can come up with fun Slaaneshi models for. As someone who owns several complete companies of Marines, I'm willing to go outside GW's model line to find what I need to build a ~2000 point army. I figure I'm going to use Catachans who have recently fallen to Slaanesh and being accompanied by the occasional stealth Daemonette as the core thematic element. Buff-ass Catachans with Slaanesh tatoos.

---I have about 60 Catachans right now, armed with Lasguns and flamers. I figure I'll need to get more. Are these Cultists, or Marauders, or Mutants? Beats me.

---Ogryns. Fortunately not only do they have some of the few interesting rules, I have the perfect kitbash in mind for them, to keep them as even-buffer Catachans. I have 12 of them, though I know I'd probably never use all of those in a regular army list (unless I functionally could, either as one squad or multiple).

---Renegade Enforcers - It seems like I probably don't need these unless the army has large enough squad sizes, but I'd like to have at least one, at least for modeling purposes. Goal is to get a female Commissar (either GW or otherwise) and paint her up pink to be a secret Daemonette.

---Characters

Renegade Commander -- obviously needed
Malefic Lord -- I read somewhere they got screwed over by a points increase?
Renedage Psycher Squad -- for fun and mortal wounds and buffs?

Obviously these three included, even if again just for modelling purposes.

--- Daemons

I'm not sure how the summoning rules work yet for Matched play in 8th. I know my R+H characters can summon, right? I already own Daemonettes and Seekers I can plop down.

--- Tanks - The only mainline IG tanks I own right now are a solitary Leman Russ, and solitary Basilisk. I don't have the $$$$$ to drop on a bunch of GW tanks (especially as I'm simultanious working on CMarine and Daemon forces, and I they don't support the theme as well anyway.). I might eventually pick up some Taurox to fill in for Chimera for some Catachan-looking squads of some sort (artistically I feel a Taurox looks better than a Chimera for an army for carrying banners that read "Do You Even Slaanesh [lift]").

--- Valkyrie (2 or them) I keep reading about Ogryn drop-assault shenanigans, and that sounds amazing. Take one or two Valkyries full of them and let them have fun? (I have parts of a third Valkyrie -- If I can find the bits I could finish it up for a third aerial deposit).

--- Heavy Support

I have a bunch of heavy weapons not being used. Mortars are dirt cheap. I could sort-of-easily put 6-12 mortar teams together (I have other weapons, but who would they go on? BS5+!!)

--- Other Squads

Sniper Marauder teams? Command Squads? Melta or Plasma Disciple Squads? Giant Mutant-rabble blobs? I could assemble various models to put any of these together I suppose, but none of them are compelling enough rules/abilities-wise Or as art projects to leap out at me to include in an army.

******************

So I realize I'm kind of just brainstorming here. I'll keep looking over people's posted army lists and searching for battle reports.

If anyone has any ideas for a core for an infantry-based, Slaaneshi army utilizing the ideas I'm discussing, I'll super eager to hear it. As someone new to 8th, with this Codex, I'm kind of at a loss right now.

Unfortunately there is no daemon summoning in 8th for us

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Unfortunately there is no daemon summoning in 8th for us

Why not?
Any CHAOS Character can summon, or at least that's what I've been told.

 Blndmage wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Unfortunately there is no daemon summoning in 8th for us

Why not?
Any CHAOS Character can summon, or at least that's what I've been told.

You are correct. the Rules are the same for us as they are for CSM regular.
Meaning however since our charachters are a lot squishyer that we detonate more often.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Unfortunately there is no daemon summoning in 8th for us

Why not?
Any CHAOS Character can summon, or at least that's what I've been told.

You are correct. the Rules are the same for us as they are for CSM regular.
Meaning however since our charachters are a lot squishyer that we detonate more often.

True, but with Enforcers as characters, that means we can have quite a few on board.

ElSmacko wrote:
Greetings everybody! New Renegades and Heretics player here.

Background -- Long time Imperial player, I'm just now getting into 8th Edition, after having played a bit of 7th, 6th, and 5th, and a Whole Lot of 2nd ed a long time ago. I've been slowly gathering the parts for a Emperor's Children army for the past 8 years, and now I'm working on building an all-Slaanesh force (along with everyone else right now I suppose?). Part of that is building what I was hoping would be a functional, self-contained Slaaneshi Chaos Cult army.

I've looked over the army list in IA, I've read about the opinions and tactics here and elsewhere, and all I can think is ......

....WOW ....
....what am I getting myself in to.

Ahh welcome fellow turncoat. Are you here to share our suffering? Belive me when i say this, the army wasn't always this tasteless unmodifyable mess we now call a list. It once was glorious bar none. Now we are a bunch of murder hobos worshipping the pantheon after raiding a munitorium chache out of shere stupidity.

Looking at the army list, I'm not even sure what to make of it. A bunch of squads that are all nearly the same, with just Slight Variations of stats and Slight variations of weapon options, without the rules to make any of them really stand out as what I should take or what I should try to build a force around. (My roommate through 5th, 6th, and 7th ed was a competitive Imperial Guard and a Chaos Marine player, so I saw what made those army lists Go)

And Renegades and Heretics is neither of those, but ... I can't exactly tell what else it is either. From people's comments it's a stripped down version of an earlier edition army list that used to function, but that I showed up too late to?

Anyway! I don't say any of this to complain -- I'm Still Going To Make The Dang Army, as I'm doing this for the lols, as they say. I used to play Marines competitively (I had to, to play against my friends), but I'm really just looking for a casual army to play casual games with, and if I can manage a 50% win ratio (or heck, a 100% loss ratio of close games) I'll be satisfied.

Now this is the Spirit, this is your army literally you can build them how you like it, but ruleswise they are a mess atm. But if you want to make awesome models you are the right way here. (Well chaos awesome models but you get my meaning)

Looking at the Renegades and Heretics list, I'm wondering if that's possible, particularly for an Infantry, Slaanesh based army, rather than a Mechanized Wanna-be IG tank force. I'm going to have a force of Emperor's Children and Daemons, and a Knight or two available to go along with it -- but I'd really like to be able to play as Solo R+H as possible without just being eternally stomped.

A lot of what I would *like* to be in the army is based around what I can come up with fun Slaaneshi models for. As someone who owns several complete companies of Marines, I'm willing to go outside GW's model line to find what I need to build a ~2000 point army. I figure I'm going to use Catachans who have recently fallen to Slaanesh and being accompanied by the occasional stealth Daemonette as the core thematic element. Buff-ass Catachans with Slaanesh tatoos.

Like it allready seems possibly easily achieved.

---I have about 60 Catachans right now, armed with Lasguns and flamers. I figure I'll need to get more. Are these Cultists, or Marauders, or Mutants? Beats me.

First get yourself a plan, do you want to go shank stuff or shoot stuff? Horde or Elites? That determines how you use these. (Sidenote, remove the cultists, Militia or mutants are both worth more bang for their buck due to equipment and cheaper price in ppm)

---Ogryns. Fortunately not only do they have some of the few interesting rules, I have the perfect kitbash in mind for them, to keep them as even-buffer Catachans. I have 12 of them, though I know I'd probably never use all of those in a regular army list (unless I functionally could, either as one squad or multiple).

If you read through this thread then you will find the reference for the "Ogryn dart" a Valkyrie with Ogryns in it charging instantly after ariving. Not only that but you picked the slaanesh covenant so rerolling those sweet swett charge rolls. Also Valkyries are good 1:1 IG ones, atm though i would reccomend not to equip HB's and just give them pods and the ML for as cheap as possible. Also yes you can, Ogryns are taken in squads up to 5 or 6, will look later, but you want to pick 4 for dropping them out of a plane for obvious reasons.

---Renegade Enforcers - It seems like I probably don't need these unless the army has large enough squad sizes, but I'd like to have at least one, at least for modeling purposes. Goal is to get a female Commissar (either GW or otherwise) and paint her up pink to be a secret Daemonette.

( I SEE THAT PICTURE REFERENCE`!) Keeping in line of 2 20 + model blobs of militia or better mutants at max size is a very decent and good combo, due to enforcers still autopassing the morale checks for d3 beaten to death fodder models. Beyond that they are a Chaos Charachter and can summon. Good for a mass line gunline or melee maintenance, keep her Away from your elits though.

---Characters

Renegade Commander -- obviously needed
Malefic Lord -- I read somewhere they got screwed over by a points increase?
Renedage Psycher Squad -- for fun and mortal wounds and buffs?

Obviously these three included, even if again just for modelling purposes.

Commander is good, leave him bare though or give him a beatstick with +on S value.
Malefics are now 80 pts for an psyker that gets no equipment and is equally as good as the IG counterpart at 40 pts. nuff said.
Covens: (Psykersquad): basically exist for one Thing: Getting off unnatural vigour and denying. Still hide them due to them beeing a squad and not a charachter they can get shot at regardless, making them rather vulnerable with only a 5++ to save their excuses for hides.

--- Daemons

I'm not sure how the summoning rules work yet for Matched play in 8th. I know my R+H characters can summon, right? I already own Daemonettes and Seekers I can plop down.

Basically it works like this: You need a chaos Charachter that remained stationary: That guy now rolls an ammount of 3D6, you get to summon a Daemon unit with a powerlevel equal to the rolled one, so mostly smaller daemons. Problem, in matched play you need to have the pts to pay for them. Basically if you play 2000 pts you need to have 70 pts left clear for summoning f.e. if you want to summon 10 bloodletters. That said if you have a big Daemon collection leaving open more points might even be usefull multitool like possibilityand infact a summoning list placed well in a tournament recently, however the list was CSM

--- Tanks - The only mainline IG tanks I own right now are a solitary Leman Russ, and solitary Basilisk. I don't have the $$$$$ to drop on a bunch of GW tanks (especially as I'm simultanious working on CMarine and Daemon forces, and I they don't support the theme as well anyway.). I might eventually pick up some Taurox to fill in for Chimera for some Catachan-looking squads of some sort (artistically I feel a Taurox looks better than a Chimera for an army for carrying banners that read "Do You Even Slaanesh [lift]").

The basilisk gunshield, mister, is a prime spot for slogans, as is the Leman russ side. Also Chimeras are the most buffest transport in the game, go wild with that, also Taurox is a nono due to net getting actual access to it as a renegade player. Course propper kitbashing solves any problem.

--- Valkyrie (2 or them) I keep reading about Ogryn drop-assault shenanigans, and that sounds amazing. Take one or two Valkyries full of them and let them have fun? (I have parts of a third Valkyrie -- If I can find the bits I could finish it up for a third aerial deposit).

Yes very much do so. 1 is a good ace, 2 is allready a bit expensive to keep in reserve. Also again Ogryn berserkers, not ogryns, Berzerkers, they are high out of their mind....

--- Heavy Support

I have a bunch of heavy weapons not being used. Mortars are dirt cheap. I could sort-of-easily put 6-12 mortar teams together (I have other weapons, but who would they go on? BS5+!!)

If you go Elites, they go into the disciples and command disciple squads. Also the best option mathematically is either the mortar and or the heavy stubber, yes the R&H get HWT with heavy stubbers. that is a 5ppm team. Basically if you use militia or HWT squads for renegades that are BS5+ don't go over duble the price of the militia member carrying it and the more firerate the better. I hope you like mortars and stubbers for your HWT's and militia HWT.

--- Other Squads

Sniper Marauder teams? Command Squads? Melta or Plasma Disciple Squads? Giant Mutant-rabble blobs? I could assemble various models to put any of these together I suppose, but none of them are compelling enough rules/abilities-wise Or as art projects to leap out at me to include in an army.

Welcome to the part of the List where R&H shines, the Elites:
Sniper Marauder teams are amazing: basically 34 pts for a 5 man squad with 2 rifles, means 3 ablative wounds. They always have a -1 to hit specialisation that also gives them +2 for armor if in cover. Yes this squad has in cover a 3+ armor an always on -1 to hit modifyer if they get shot at, can ignore morale 5/6 times and only cost 6 ppm not to mention baseline bs 3+ and 2 attacks each. Marauders are probably the bes unit R&H get, but as warned above, keep the enforcer aways since he will just shoot them on sight before their morale rule kicks in.

Disciples are like veterans, except less dakka options (1 Special and one 1 HWT) however they also get ws3+, you want to go melee they can, they also get max loadout at 5 allready and can be taken up to 15 per squad. Give them your AT and boost their squad size and profit from their better morale rules and accuracy or go ham by charging the enemy with dirtcheap but good units.

Command disciples: OK now here we go in the territory off setting up your army. They are kinda dictated by how your army is set up, if you run militia with vox then they will carry a command vox, and most likely and preferably you will use more then 1 command vox sqaud to get the redundancy of the first determination of the random LD: in essence if you get lucky you can give out your whole army of militia an LD of 9. That is good.

Alternatively if you don't go for militia with voxes, and you really want to go melee, they get a banner that allows for a dead model to fight with 1 attack again. Combine this with an enforcer, a coven for unnatural vigour rerolls and give it said banner and use 2 50 man mutant blobs as wrecking balls, alternatively even if you go elites melee, which is possible, the banner still a handy tool.

******************

So I realize I'm kind of just brainstorming here. I'll keep looking over people's posted army lists and searching for battle reports.

If anyone has any ideas for a core for an infantry-based, Slaaneshi army utilizing the ideas I'm discussing, I'll super eager to hear it. As someone new to 8th, with this Codex, I'm kind of at a loss right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blndmage wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Unfortunately there is no daemon summoning in 8th for us

Why not?
Any CHAOS Character can summon, or at least that's what I've been told.

You are correct. the Rules are the same for us as they are for CSM regular.
Meaning however since our charachters are a lot squishyer that we detonate more often.

True, but with Enforcers as characters, that means we can have quite a few on board.

3 enforcers, 3 commanders, 3 malefics. That are 9 possible spankers to summon daemons.

Thank you so much for all the guidance! This is great.

I'm going to respond to a few things now, but if I'm not responding to it, it doesn't mean I'm disregarding it.

First get yourself a plan, do you want to go shank stuff or shoot stuff? Horde or Elites? That determines how you use these. (Sidenote, remove the cultists, Militia or mutants are both worth more bang for their buck due to equipment and cheaper price in ppm)

Probably shooty, as that's what the Catachans I have are modeled for. My Chaos Marine/Daemon army should primarily be HTH, and so having a shooty Renegades army would probably make the most sense (I own about 40 Seekers and 40 Daemonettes I can either summon or detachment in, if I need more HTH).

That being said, the idea of not using cultists because they're one point more for 4+ rather than 5+ BS seems strange, but again -- I'm a Space Marine player used to a different edition of the game, so even a 4+ effective BS feels low to me. If y'all tell me that cultists aren't the way to go with this army, I'm listening.

If you read through this thread then you will find the reference for the "Ogryn dart" a Valkyrie with Ogryns in it charging instantly after ariving. Not only that but you picked the slaanesh covenant so rerolling those sweet swett charge rolls. Also Valkyries are good 1:1 IG ones, atm though i would reccomend not to equip HB's and just give them pods and the ML for as cheap as possible. Also yes you can, Ogryns are taken in squads up to 5 or 6, will look later, but you want to pick 4 for dropping them out of a plane for obvious reasons.

I'll have to check, but I think the Errata made it squads of 3-12! So normally I'd probably Valkyrie'ing them in squads of 4, but if I'm feeling super-cheecky at some point I could try footslogging a squad of 12 of them forward. That much better for Combat-Drugging and Vigour'ing. But Valkyries it shall regularly be.

In one of the previous pages there was a minor disagreement over how far you had to move to do Valkyrie drops and etc. It looks like it was left at having to move 20+ which means our Ogryns are always having to test to see if they die on 1's? How much of a problem is that for people?

I liked the idea of the Lascannon to free the Valkyrie up to go after tanks after, but it looks like it's a 5+ to hit, which is lousy for the same reasons as HWT with big guns.

(Regarding secret Daemonette Commissars)

I SEE THAT PICTURE REFERENCE`!

Laugh, yeah, I'd seen it before but wasn't thinking about it at the time. I wish they had some of the 'cute' Daemonette heads for this purpose, but yeah, we're stuck with the current ones (which are fine too). I might be able to model a few from GW stuff, but again, there are some non-GW companies that make female commissars, which is exactly right for this force.

Commander is good, leave him bare though or give him a beatstick with +on S value.
Malefics are now 80 pts for an psyker that gets no equipment and is equally as good as the IG counterpart at 40 pts. nuff said.
Covens: (Psykersquad): basically exist for one Thing: Getting off unnatural vigor and denying. Still hide them due to them being a squad and not a character they can get shot at regardless, making them rather vulnerable with only a 5++ to save their excuses for hides.

Looking again at the stats for the Commander....

Wow. Just seriously ......... Is this the least-valuable character, let alone Commander, in the entire game?
The fact that we have to take one of these and make him our warlord is just .... yeah. :/

I'm not sure how the rules on taking stuff from Killteam work yet, but isn't their another Renegade Psycker character we can pull from there as well? Does that break our .... whatever it's called, for having our detachment be from one Codex. Not sure how this works yet. If we can, maybe I can do that instead of Malifics? [Edit] Actually, it looks like you can only take those if you take the Alpha Legion commander that heads the detachment? Sorry, still learning how 8th works as a whole].

The basilisk gunshield, mister, is a prime spot for slogans, as is the Leman russ side. Also Chimeras are the most buffest transport in the game, go wild with that, also Taurox is a nono due to net getting actual access to it as a renegade player. Course propper kitbashing solves any problem.

Ooh! Yeah, the Basilisk shields. Good idea, thanks.
I'm a good kitbasher, and a decent enough painter, but my freehand painting and other artistic abilities are just crap. While I'll do the primary pain-job myself, I hope that eventually I can trade services to someone to get some fancier work done. A nice WW2-style Daemonette-the-Riveter on the side or top of a Valkyrie or Taurox would be just peachy keen.

If I do eventually aquire a Taurox it would definitely just be as a stand-in, which I'd model with the Chimera weapons. Visually it just seems a lot more appropriate. (But I also may just scratch-build some transports, when I figure what I need).

I hope you like mortars and stubbers for your HWT's and militia HWT.

Laugh, uh..... I'm used to getting my heavy weapons in the form of Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts so, all of this is new to me. My only problem is that I haven't figured out how I'm going to interestingly convert them yet.

Sniper Marauder teams are amazing: basically 34 pts for a 5 man squad with 2 rifles, means 3 ablative wounds.

UGH, I just realized that they don't have any sort of Infiltrate or anything. How do people use snipers without that?? Sorry, I'm used to running Marine Scout Snipers, so, I'm spoiled.

Disciples are like veterans, except less dakka options (1 Special and one 1 HWT) however they also get ws3+, you want to go melee they can, they also get max loadout at 5 allready and can be taken up to 15 per squad. Give them your AT and boost their squad size and profit from their better morale rules and accuracy or go ham by charging the enemy with dirtcheap but good units.

Yeah, I remember seeing my roommate Get Stuff Done with a verteran squad with Meltas.
I'm not as certain how to use these Disciples yet.

Relatedly:

*******Where Does The Anti-Tank Come From?********

Disciples only get a little. Heavy Weapons Squads are bad at it (because 5+).
Is it supposed to come from Armoured Sentinels? Leman Russes? Other Forgeworld artillery?
I'm not finding it.
I really don't want to be taking my Baneblade or Knight every battle.

Your best bet for a R&H army that can hold it's own solo is one that can also be run as an Astra Militarum list.

Then just run them as Astra Militarum when solo, R&H in your 'soup'.

That being said, the idea of not using cultists because they're one point more for 4+ rather than 5+ BS seems strange, but again -- I'm a Space Marine player used to a different edition of the game, so even a 4+ effective BS feels low to me. If y'all tell me that cultists aren't the way to go with this army, I'm listening.

Basically, you pay 20% more for an increase in accuracy off less then that in effectiveness.
Also morale management, is better done by militia, blobbinb is better done by mutants and therefore both units beat out cultists. to expand this, for 4 cultists you get 5 Militia members or mutants.

Looking again at the stats for the Commander....

Wow. Just seriously ......... Is this the least-valuable character, let alone Commander, in the entire game?

Ok STOP RIGHT THERE.
That least valuable dude, provides an army wide buff, and can get the regular warlord traits and there is one that helps out a R&H army massivley, an aura that boosts LD by 1, fun fact that boost can be broadcasted with a command vox. LD 10 militia is annoying to remove.

Secondly: If khorne give him a Energy sword and intervene in melees, he is good enough to make mincemeat out off alot of WAY more expensive Charachters. Thirdly, the company commander for IG is the excact same profile but for 5 pts more.

I'm not sure how the rules on taking stuff from Killteam work yet, but isn't their another Renegade Psycker character we can pull from there as well? Does that break our .... whatever it's called, for having our detachment be from one Codex. Not sure how this works yet. If we can, maybe I can do that instead of Malifics? [Edit] Actually, it looks like you can only take those if you take the Alpha Legion commander that heads the detachment? Sorry, still learning how 8th works as a whole].

Breaks battleforged and you profit from no rules, bad idea imo.

Laugh, uh..... I'm used to getting my heavy weapons in the form of Land Raiders and Dreadnoughts so, all of this is new to me. My only problem is that I haven't figured out how I'm going to interestingly convert them yet.

Stubbers are 2 pts for 3 shots S4, a 20 man militia squad can take 2. Mortars are also great for LOS ignoring fire.
HWT squads with mortars are also one of the most point efficent anti infantry there is in the game funnily.

UGH, I just realized that they don't have any sort of Infiltrate or anything. How do people use snipers without that?? Sorry, I'm used to running Marine Scout Snipers, so, I'm spoiled.

Ok amusing, a marine scout is just about 5 times worse.
They get to ignore morale 5/6 times completely, they get an always on -1 to hit against them so they further ignore allready a lot of shooting and PG may blow up in the enemies faces. They are 6ppm compared to scouts, and are better in melee on top of that. Not to mention that if you throw them into a ruin or somewhere where they get cover that turns into a 6ppm with a 3+ SV.
Think of them as your backfield security force that denies deepstrikes and in general is annoying and is mostly there to target charachters.

I'm not as certain how to use these Disciples yet.

I am khornate, mechanized, as you might have seen in my sig i run a blog, basically i make them 12 dudes, gave them an missile launcher or Autocannon (depends on pts) threw them in a chimera with a pg and a vox.
Alternatively you want to go full WW1/2 trenchwarfare/ mass assult, make them 15 strong give them at and PG and let them hold the line. compared to militia.

Disciples only get a little. Heavy Weapons Squads are bad at it (because 5+).
Is it supposed to come from Armoured Sentinels? Leman Russes? Other Forgeworld artillery?
I'm not finding it.
I really don't want to be taking my Baneblade or Knight every battle.

3 command disciples squads and 3 disciple squads --> leads to 6 lascannons on 3+ for relatively cheap and they all can take hybrid roles (banner for better anti melee, command voxes, etc)

Sentinels with Autocannons, Salamander scout tanks, Leman russes with battlecannons, Basilisks of course are great at AT duty.

Regarding Cultists vs other troops:

Basically, you pay 20% more for an increase in accuracy off less then that in effectiveness.
Also morale management, is better done by militia, blobbinb is better done by mutants and therefore both units beat out cultists. to expand this, for 4 cultists you get 5 Militia members or mutants.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I'm so used to paying such a higher base costs for my troops, where one point doesn't seem like it'd make as much of a difference, that I don't yet have sight onwhat's valuable at this point scale. Avoiding Cultists makes sense.

Ok STOP RIGHT THERE.
That least valuable dude, provides an army wide buff, and can get the regular warlord traits and there is one that helps out a R&H army massivley, an aura that boosts LD by 1, fun fact that boost can be broadcasted with a command vox. LD 10 militia is annoying to remove.

Fair. What I really mean is looking at him in comparison to other Commanders. What I see is my Space Marine (either Loyalist or Chaos) commanders who get to smash stuff, and who grant rerolls. What I see is Imperial Guard commanders who issue orders, and so on. I'm comparing him to what he would be in a more legit codex, rather than what function he can actually provide, and that's the wrong way to look at this.

Regarding a comparison to SM Scouts:

Ok amusing, a marine scout is just about 5 times worse.

I don't mean that SM Scouts are better - I really don't know, as I don't think I've run any since 6th edition. While the degree of change in the gameplay isn't unprecedented, it does seem pretty major, so I know I need to leave a lot of my expectations behind. I just know I'm totally used to my snipers having infiltrate, so "losing" that makes me unsure of how they're tactically approached. But then you give me good explanation of that, so thanks!

I am khornate, mechanized, as you might have seen in my sig i run a blog, basically i make them 12 dudes, gave them an missile launcher or Autocannon (depends on pts) threw them in a chimera with a pg and a vox.
Alternatively you want to go full WW1/2 trenchwarfare/ mass assult, make them 15 strong give them at and PG and let them hold the line. compared to militia.

I did read some of your blog, last night. I haven't had time to read the entire thing yet, but I'm really enjoying it.
Hm, ok. I think I need to make some sample Disciple squads up and just evaluate them.

3 command disciples squads and 3 disciple squads --> leads to 6 lascannons on 3+ for relatively cheap and they all can take hybrid roles (banner for better anti melee, command voxes, etc)

That makes sense. Again, I'm used to my AT being concentrated into limited sources (Deadnoughts, Land Raiders, a squad of 4 deepstriking meltas), so I'm not thinking that it can be spread around like that. Also, I forget it's valuable now to partially destroy vehicles -- they aren't 100% alive/100% dead anymore, and that sounds like it would have a big effect on play.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I'm so used to paying such a higher base costs for my troops, where one point doesn't seem like it'd make as much of a difference, that I don't yet have sight onwhat's valuable at this point scale. Avoiding Cultists makes sense.

There are fringe cases, where you would want a cultists over militia or mutants, mainly if you go melee, that said whilest the mutants require more help to do melee (Coven and enforecer compared to enforcerer for cultists) it generally still better to pick the mutants and swallow the pill.

Fair. What I really mean is looking at him in comparison to other Commanders. What I see is my Space Marine (either Loyalist or Chaos) commanders who get to smash stuff, and who grant rerolls. What I see is Imperial Guard commanders who issue orders, and so on. I'm comparing him to what he would be in a more legit codex, rather than what function he can actually provide, and that's the wrong way to look at this.

They are more backline leaders, morale managers and army wide buff providers sooo of course they won't go in like a smashcaptain and just casually make a knight poo it's mechanical pants. BUT, heroic interventions into melees against other charachters or heavy infantry is very well manageable for them, Key word though is that you need to get them up to S4 (Khorne covenant, Maul, axe, etc) though.
My little Meinel beat up an Archon so underestimating them is dangerous.

That makes sense. Again, I'm used to my AT being concentrated into limited sources (Deadnoughts, Land Raiders, a squad of 4 deepstriking meltas), so I'm not thinking that it can be spread around like that. Also, I forget it's valuable now to partially destroy vehicles -- they aren't 100% alive/100% dead anymore, and that sounds like it would have a big effect on play.

Splitfire is now an actual rule for all units without any drawback., just a heads up. so you don't waste any lasguns on a Tank they can't wound.

Huh in the updated errata, Marauder brutes got an additional melee weapon, so +1 attack.
Hurrray i guess.

Had a quick question because the index is very confusing.

How exactly does the command vox net work? I get that it let's essentially the whole table use the command squads ld, but how do you know their ld for use of the net? From what I can tell, you only determine their morale once they take a casualty, so until you can lose a guy you'd have no ld value for the command squad to give.

I'm also not entirely why the troop militia squads can take like 4 special and 2 heavy weapons in a maximum sized squad yet command and elite squads are limited to one or two max. Am I reading something wrong there? Because it looks like I could take a 20 man squad with 4 plasma and two autocannons, which feels.... Unintentional I guess. Obviously they'd just get shot off the board and they don't get orders so it's not broken, just weird.

On that note, what the heck is the point of the commander? I'm allying them with Alpha Legion as a themed list and it seems the only point to one is as your warlord. He doesn't give ld to anybody doesn't have orders, doesn't have auras, and doesn't have relics as far as I can tell so he seems kind of pointless. Which is weird because the pyskers and enforcers seem great. What am I missing?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Had a quick question because the index is very confusing.

How exactly does the command vox net work? I get that it let's essentially the whole table use the command squads ld, but how do you know their ld for use of the net? From what I can tell, you only determine their morale once they take a casualty, so until you can lose a guy you'd have no ld value for the command squad to give.

I'm also not entirely why the troop militia squads can take like 4 special and 2 heavy weapons in a maximum sized squad yet command and elite squads are limited to one or two max. Am I reading something wrong there? Because it looks like I could take a 20 man squad with 4 plasma and two autocannons, which feels.... Unintentional I guess. Obviously they'd just get shot off the board and they don't get orders so it's not broken, just weird.

On that note, what the heck is the point of the commander? I'm allying them with Alpha Legion as a themed list and it seems the only point to one is as your warlord. He doesn't give ld to anybody doesn't have orders, doesn't have auras, and doesn't have relics as far as I can tell so he seems kind of pointless. Which is weird because the pyskers and enforcers seem great. What am I missing?

The command vox is as you said confusing, generally though I would go with the 7th ed rule for it to make it actually work.
So you are allowed to determine the LD without casuality losses on the command disciples.

Also yes militia squads have better access to equipment then our elites. We just have to deal with it.

The commander is the one and only way to get access to the covenants, which he only spreads if he is the warlord, in other words He also has only the traits from the BRB if he is your warlord, where the +1 ld aura is.

Commanders exist right now solely to be warlords and give your army a Covenant

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Commanders exist right now solely to be warlords and give your army a Covenant

Or to not be warlords but instead be cheap battalion tax for CP reasons.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Huh in the updated errata, Marauder brutes got an additional melee weapon, so +1 attack.
Hurrray i guess.

Actually, the brutes ONLY get a CCW. Read the data sheet closely, and it says nothing about them being able to take any weapons.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Huh in the updated errata, Marauder brutes got an additional melee weapon, so +1 attack.
Hurrray i guess.

Actually, the brutes ONLY get a CCW. Read the data sheet closely, and it says nothing about them being able to take any weapons.

Wait, so they now gained a melee weapon?

Awesome thanks for the quick responses. Sucks about the commanders rules but I guess I can make it work. Really makes me want to run the pyskers now though.

Losing the covenant rules isn't a big deal but it does suck. It's just that it doesn't make sense to make the cultist commander the warlord when I've got alpha legion alongside then running the show.

CCW is the default weapon that any unit without a listed melee weapon is assumed to have

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Awesome thanks for the quick responses. Sucks about the commanders rules but I guess I can make it work. Really makes me want to run the pyskers now though.

Losing the covenant rules isn't a big deal but it does suck. It's just that it doesn't make sense to make the cultist commander the warlord when I've got alpha legion alongside then running the show.

AL legion is also known to regard their operatives of the infiltrating (human-kind) as part of it. It is not much off a stretch that they would follow a lone wolf operative that knows when the time is right.

Just has a 1000 pt. Battle against Custodes (including an Orion drop ship). My shooters did little but my plague Ogryn and chaos spawn massacred most of his infantry (so like 6 units) before being pummeled by a dreadnought and dropship.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Just has a 1000 pt. Battle against Custodes (including an Orion drop ship). My shooters did little but my plague Ogryn and chaos spawn massacred most of his infantry (so like 6 units) before being pummeled by a dreadnought and dropship.

Win or loss?
Also the ogryns massacred his infantry? who would've thought

Ogryns are great.