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 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.

Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?

Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.

There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.

Niiru wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.

Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?

Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.

There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.

And recycling, and stratagems, and morale immunity, and rerolls, etc.
Sure RC marines did give another way for CP, but overall i'd still pick cultists.

Also ld 8, K, they also can have ld 3 and have no saving Grace. And on average 5,5

Not Online!!! wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.

Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?

Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.

There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.

And recycling, and stratagems, and morale immunity, and rerolls, etc.
Sure RC marines did give another way for CP, but overall i'd still pick cultists.

Also ld 8, K, they also can have ld 3 and have no saving Grace. And on average 5,5

I mean, recycling and morale immunity both come under 'stratagems', and I didn't really consider them because spending any CP on a unit of 10 cultists seems like a waste. They do get rerolls if they're near a lord, that's true, but ... I mean, how often do you keep a lord standing around near some cultists? My lords usually have better things to do.

The equation obviously changes if you're actually making a cultist army... hordes of 30-man units, with abaddon in the centre, that kind of thing. But thats a very different question to taking R&H cultists for detachment fulfilment.

But personally, I think they're all a bit rubbish. Better than CSM, perhaps, but that's not a hard feat. Nurglings are better than CSM.

Niiru wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I'm struggling to see why you want to take R&H Cultists, honestly. CSM Cultists cost the same and are better in almost every regard.

Umm... don't they cost the same, and are in fact the same in almost every regard?

Actually... the renegades cultists -can- have a leadership of 8, which makes them a lot better than CSM cultists.

There's not a lot of point to csm cultists anymore. Other than troop tax, of course.

And recycling, and stratagems, and morale immunity, and rerolls, etc.
Sure RC marines did give another way for CP, but overall i'd still pick cultists.

Also ld 8, K, they also can have ld 3 and have no saving Grace. And on average 5,5

I mean, recycling and morale immunity both come under 'stratagems', and I didn't really consider them because spending any CP on a unit of 10 cultists seems like a waste. They do get rerolls if they're near a lord, that's true, but ... I mean, how often do you keep a lord standing around near some cultists? My lords usually have better things to do.

The equation obviously changes if you're actually making a cultist army... hordes of 30-man units, with abaddon in the centre, that kind of thing. But thats a very different question to taking R&H cultists for detachment fulfilment.

But personally, I think they're all a bit rubbish. Better than CSM, perhaps, but that's not a hard feat. Nurglings are better than CSM.

No that's the thing.
R&H Cultists don't interact with the army that fields them beyond the coven. Csm cultists do, that makes them infinitely better then r&h ones.
They get no vox, no stratagem, no nothing.
They shouldn't even be there in the first place if you look at the history of the list.

Also. It makes no sense really for R&H to even form a cp generating detachment in the first place out of soup.
I can still justify militia though, or mutants even, but not cultists. In a pure list that is.

Taking ten Cultists is a waste of time, IMO.

Quantity, I am advised, has a quality all its own.

Meh, enforcers prevent all ya trash infantry from running, which is kind of a step up from csm fodder considering I don't particularly like Black Legion. I feel with enforcers, the difference between cultists and militia is too minute to be up to anything more than personal preference, and the bs 5+ kills my soul

If Csm do go down to 12 points, I believe, especially with red corsairs, that they'd be a better troop choice to cultists, especially with bolter drill/shock assault. Cultists for csm are only good for black legion now I feel, and i'd rather just bring daemons in that case.

Renegades provide probably the best trashy screen without having to invest in Abbadon

 WinterLantern wrote:
Meh, enforcers prevent all ya trash infantry from running, which is kind of a step up from csm fodder considering I don't particularly like Black Legion. I feel with enforcers, the difference between cultists and militia is too minute to be up to anything more than personal preference, and the bs 5+ kills my soul

If Csm do go down to 12 points, I believe, especially with red corsairs, that they'd be a better troop choice to cultists, especially with bolter drill/shock assault. Cultists for csm are only good for black legion now I feel, and i'd rather just bring daemons in that case.

Renegades provide probably the best trashy screen without having to invest in Abbadon

you don't need to throw down abby though.
As for BS 5+. Are you new to R&H? BS5+ was always common for the meat of the army, except if you invested the points in the better units or upgraded your rable into an actually (somewhat) cohesive fighting force.
Infact that was part of the deal. Outnumber your enemy massively but suffer in performance or be off equal quality.
Now we can't do both. (because someone deemed it logical in the transition to 8th that militia is 4 pts now instead of 3, same with mutants. and decided that Veterans in the troop slot are not exitstent.

It's probably the biggest part wrong with the R&H list right now.

I have dreams where they bring back Militia Training.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I have dreams where they bring back Militia Training.

I want my renegade grenadiers back.
And militia Training.
And arch Demagogues.


But most importantly i want fixed prices for the whole list.

fam I ran militia grenadiers last edition. bs5+ is gak for me, imma still sad I lost my renegade tempestus

 WinterLantern wrote:
fam I ran militia grenadiers last edition. bs5+ is gak for me, imma still sad I lost my renegade tempestus

I always switched between bloody handed reaver and his full maxed out grenadier army or a heretek magos with lot's of Veterans with the 6+ FNP and 4 + armor.

Good times were had.
Over too soon.

I still believe that servants of the abyss may be our salvation.
Its piecemeal but atleast the troops are much better than ours other than lack of weapon customization which they may change.
With commisars are one of the only way to buff our troops and I'll be surprised if the firebrand doesn't provide a buff.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
I still believe that servants of the abyss may be our salvation.
Its piecemeal but atleast the troops are much better than ours other than lack of weapon customization which they may change.
With commisars are one of the only way to buff our troops and I'll be surprised if the firebrand doesn't provide a buff.

yaaay.....

we will get replaced by gakky chaos guard that do not feel like the army should.
great.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
I still believe that servants of the abyss may be our salvation.
Its piecemeal but atleast the troops are much better than ours other than lack of weapon customization which they may change.
With commisars are one of the only way to buff our troops and I'll be surprised if the firebrand doesn't provide a buff.

yaaay.....

we will get replaced by gakky chaos guard that do not feel like the army should.
great.

You mean like an army with beastmen, cheap powerful risky psychers, a few chaos marine overseers (but not always), melee guard and military grade troops (like pdf or blood pact) as well as expendable cultists. Sounds like the army should to me.
My army is formed my deserters (after being left to starve, freeze and die in the trenches) and after deserting they and their families were senticed to death so with no other alternative they rebelled. Launching a rebellion the underhivers joined them on a class war but still loyal to the big E and were winning until the planetary govener called in Astartes claming they were chaos worshipers. They started losing so turned to chaos out of desperation.

So what is missing then you ask?

-Revolutionary forces.

-Warlords

-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)

- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.

- Religious nutjobs

- Guerilla forces

- Mercenaries


And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.

We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.

No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.

Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.

Not Online!!! wrote:
So what is missing then you ask?

-Revolutionary forces.

-Warlords

-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)

- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.

- Religious nutjobs

- Guerilla forces

- Mercenaries


And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.

We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.

No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.

Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.

I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.

If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
So what is missing then you ask?

-Revolutionary forces.

-Warlords

-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)

- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.

- Religious nutjobs

- Guerilla forces

- Mercenaries


And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.

We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.

No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.

Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.

I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.

If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.

I don't look at the index, i want IA 13 level of customizability and options back.

The commisar alone is bs, as an option.
The firebrandspeaker we don't get, we get a cult leader
Beastmen are abhumans, don't belive me, check the Lexicanum, they are the same category as ratlings or ogryns. Which are not considered mutants.

Btw what you described is a bunch of deserters no political force that has started a Revolution.
At best you described a warlord. Which however would bring the question, why is he starving and has no body guard with hotshot guns.

Guerilla, based upon a commisar, beyond as allready stated that the commisar as option makes no sense whatsoever, is completely counterintuitve.
What there should be instead to propperly play Guerilla forces is democharges and sniperrifles equipped veteran options. Like IA 13. Not a bunch of spiky guardsmen with a moronical choice disregarding established fluff hq shouting at then.

Also traitor guardsmen are not mercenaries, they are traitors and deserters, units like marauders or the old grenadiers for renegades, that were mercs.

As for the elite choices the Marauders, ogryns and disciples are no copy, it's just that Gw deemed after the rules takeover after the death of the Fw subdivision leader, that r&h are not worth the effort.
Leading to command squads beeing elites instead of hq Bodyguards they were.

And you think really gw will do a good Job, when they can't even be bothered about propper understanding a list before they release a shity index?

Btw the last answer i got for my Mail after match 74 (I recently more or less stopped playing r&H) was simply.
"
We deem the state acceptable, we don't intend on changing anything. We also don't intend on expanding servants of the abyss and to incirporate them with the renegades and heretics index list as a, as you called it, "full unit".

"

My question to them was, if it wouldn't be possible to give the traitor guardsmen IG equipment options and size options for squads and if these could then replace the militia entry.

Yeah so much for that.

You know that alot of mercenaries are serving soldiers right? A lot of mercenaries in Iraq are from the new Zealand army.
I kinda agree about the commissar, could of just called him an cheif enforcer or something.
I did mention it became a class war right? That means to over throw the government and the upper classes. Thus revolutionary or atleast a codeta.
He has a ogryn body guard which is better than a hot shot gun.
I would like to see a guerilla force even with able to fall back and shoot like ultrasmurfs.
Still more likely than renegades and heretics getting an update.
So by the looks of it you have given up on r&h on favour of complaining about it and rejecting anything new that may help chaos guard get boots back on the table. Also since servants are getting more units soon so they are still getting expanded. Still a battalion of servants and a spearhead/vanguard of r&h

No, i am just pissed off at GW , especially thanks to the last Mail i got, which means that we will be sitting around approx 1-2 years more turning thumbs until even servants turn into something worth considering. Considering that they literally stated that they atm wouldn't even consider making traitor guardsmen into a propper unit with actual options in terms of size and equipment.

The ogryn whilest a nice ogryn model does not replace elite formations, with actual equipment.

I also reject the rules not the models, because compared to whats supposed to be in the list, from the established standard, nothing is, not even rules concerning morale or connections and interactions between units themselves.
Which to me atleast make the servants atleast now just a lazy once over.
Because what's the bloody point to give them 40 k rules when you get rien nada whilest everyone with actual commitment or basic reading comprehension could've allready written them appropriately in the first place.

Also the new firbrand is just hillarious, more fitting as a priest for gsc then Chaos.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/21/the-regimental-standard-new-study-confirms-guardsmen-better-than-cultists/

GW's salting the wound it seems.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
So what is missing then you ask?

-Revolutionary forces.

-Warlords

-Mutant uprisings (No beastmen do not count, Beastmen are not mutants)

- Heretek magi and their servitorized forces.

- Religious nutjobs

- Guerilla forces

- Mercenaries


And we are just talking about the options that were stripped out.

We get excactly PDF and spiky guard
With the most unfluffiest hq choice ever.

No, imo the servants are just lazy designed in their rule department especially compared to all other 8th creations.

Btw you want marine overseers? You allready have that, it's called csm codex.

I just described a revolutionary force.
Also warlords
Beastmen are mutants. They are not xenos they were human or historically were.
Negavolt cultists are much closer to heretek tha. Anything r&h has.
We have a fire brand and cultists coming so more religious units than R&H again.
Also smaller units are more guerilla than 10 man units and the speed boast from commissar also more in theme with guerilla forces.
Also traitor guard are much more mercenary than any troops choices r&h has.

If you want lazy look at the r&h index. The best units are either directly taken from a loyalist codex or elite choices which are copies of each other.

I don't look at the index, i want IA 13 level of customizability and options back.

The commisar alone is bs, as an option.
The firebrandspeaker we don't get, we get a cult leader
Beastmen are abhumans, don't belive me, check the Lexicanum, they are the same category as ratlings or ogryns. Which are not considered mutants.

Btw what you described is a bunch of deserters no political force that has started a Revolution.
At best you described a warlord. Which however would bring the question, why is he starving and has no body guard with hotshot guns.

Guerilla, based upon a commisar, beyond as allready stated that the commisar as option makes no sense whatsoever, is completely counterintuitve.
What there should be instead to propperly play Guerilla forces is democharges and sniperrifles equipped veteran options. Like IA 13. Not a bunch of spiky guardsmen with a moronical choice disregarding established fluff hq shouting at then.

Also traitor guardsmen are not mercenaries, they are traitors and deserters, units like marauders or the old grenadiers for renegades, that were mercs.

As for the elite choices the Marauders, ogryns and disciples are no copy, it's just that Gw deemed after the rules takeover after the death of the Fw subdivision leader, that r&h are not worth the effort.
Leading to command squads beeing elites instead of hq Bodyguards they were.

And you think really gw will do a good Job, when they can't even be bothered about propper understanding a list before they release a shity index?

Btw the last answer i got for my Mail after match 74 (I recently more or less stopped playing r&H) was simply.
"
We deem the state acceptable, we don't intend on changing anything. We also don't intend on expanding servants of the abyss and to incirporate them with the renegades and heretics index list as a, as you called it, "full unit".

"

My question to them was, if it wouldn't be possible to give the traitor guardsmen IG equipment options and size options for squads and if these could then replace the militia entry.

Yeah so much for that.

You know that alot of mercenaries are serving soldiers right? A lot of mercenaries in Iraq are from the new Zealand army.
I kinda agree about the commissar, could of just called him an cheif enforcer or something.
I did mention it became a class war right? That means to over throw the government and the upper classes. Thus revolutionary or atleast a codeta.
He has a ogryn body guard which is better than a hot shot gun.
I would like to see a guerilla force even with able to fall back and shoot like ultrasmurfs.
Still more likely than renegades and heretics getting an update.
So by the looks of it you have given up on r&h on favour of complaining about it and rejecting anything new that may help chaos guard get boots back on the table. Also since servants are getting more units soon so they are still getting expanded. Still a battalion of servants and a spearhead/vanguard of r&h

No, i am just pissed off at GW , especially thanks to the last Mail i got, which means that we will be sitting around approx 1-2 years more turning thumbs until even servants turn into something worth considering. Considering that they literally stated that they atm wouldn't even consider making traitor guardsmen into a propper unit with actual options in terms of size and equipment.

The ogryn whilest a nice ogryn model does not replace elite formations, with actual equipment.

I also reject the rules not the models, because compared to whats supposed to be in the list, from the established standard, nothing is, not even rules concerning morale or connections and interactions between units themselves.
Which to me atleast make the servants atleast now just a lazy once over.
Because what's the bloody point to give them 40 k rules when you get rien nada whilest everyone with actual commitment or basic reading comprehension could've allready written them appropriately in the first place.

Also the new firbrand is just hillarious, more fitting as a priest for gsc then Chaos.

I may be relatively new to traitor guard but believe me I'm pissed off too with the lack of love for our army. I'm just trying to make it work personally I see servants being the next best thing troop wise.
The servant Ogryn is a character so can be used completely differently and more likely to make combat.
Personally the random moral made using r&h needlessly complicated to use and games alot longer. I liked the concept of random moral but the rule did put me off them alot. Traitor commissar does synergize with traitor guard units more so than most units in r&h, same with mallex and speculatively the firebrand which is said to use warp flame and empower nearby cultists.
Chaos is getting more ritualistic and fire branding with chaos symbols I see as more chaotic than alien. But that us my opinion and that of many by the looks in the comment section on the video about them https://youtu.be/Y8dsjlkc5qg

I'm fb Many have commented about the carnaval of chaos look about them which I see as well even though I prefer trench work and rebellion theme.

Rule wise the new cultists will be better than our troops. The unit will cost 40 points same as a naked militia unit but hit on a 4 and have a grenade launcher and heavy stubber.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/21/the-regimental-standard-new-study-confirms-guardsmen-better-than-cultists/

GW's salting the wound it seems.

Filthy blind misguided loyalist dogs.
We will show them the error of their ways.

Rule wise the new cultists will be better than our troops. The unit will cost 40 points same as a naked militia unit but hit on a 4 and have a grenade launcher and heavy stubber.

And where do we get these rules rumors?

Pray tell.

Personally the random moral made using r&h needlessly complicated to use and games alot longer. I liked the concept of random moral but the rule did put me off them alot. Traitor commissar does synergize with traitor guard units more so than most units in r&h, same with mallex and speculatively the firebrand which is said to use warp flame and empower nearby cultists.

And also said that he generates the flame within himself.
And then look at the fuel cable.

I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Rule wise the new cultists will be better than our troops. The unit will cost 40 points same as a naked militia unit but hit on a 4 and have a grenade launcher and heavy stubber.

And where do we get these rules rumors?

Pray tell.

Personally the random moral made using r&h needlessly complicated to use and games alot longer. I liked the concept of random moral but the rule did put me off them alot. Traitor commissar does synergize with traitor guard units more so than most units in r&h, same with mallex and speculatively the firebrand which is said to use warp flame and empower nearby cultists.

And also said that he generates the flame within himself.
And then look at the fuel cable.

Cultists are 5 points each 5x7 = 35
Stubbers are 2pts grenade launchers are 3pts
35+2+3=40.

In the https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/19/a-deadly-threat-rises-in-the-blackstone-fortressgw-homepage-post-2/ post

"Cultist Firebrands are absolutely deadly at mid-range, and they also inflame the zeal of nearby Cultist hostiles. Their bodies are swollen with infernal power… so let’s just say you don’t want to be standing close to one when they’re killed…

"

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.

Like that old rumour?

I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent

However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.

Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.

Like that old rumour?

I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent

However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.

Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.

My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.

Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool

I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.

Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?

If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.

Like that old rumour?

I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent

However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.

Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.

My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.

Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool

I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.

Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?

Honest answer, both are bad.
In your case go with Oblits however keep the detachment limit in mind.
Havocs just die too fast and Oblits that are not Slaanesh seriously have the succ unless you spam the nurgle tree thingy, and even then Oblits are not good, due to beeing unreliable (you think r&h morale is bad, take a look at the "weapon" Oblits have) expensive (115 pts /Obliterator is not a winning proposition often) and extremely cp hungry (command rerolls to save the gun throws, VotLW if you have access to it, purge shenanigans, etc)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WinterLantern wrote:
If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.

Nade launcher autoguns and stubcarbines, it will 75% of the time be another absolutely abmissmal forced equipment situation.

Just the new leader get's a flamer fuelled by what i only can assume is fart gas.

Thank you for the advice what is VotLW?
And you still stay that grenade launchers are good on militia which only hits on a 5+, atleast cultists hit on a 4+ (not condoning the lack of weapon options but just stating that its probably how I would equip them anyway. Guard for front line with their armour and ld and cultists for fire support.
The firebrand is most likely a new hq or elite not inbeded on the unit and he does buff them (how we don't know yet but better than anything rdh give them currently).

Oh I've heard on fb that a servants of the abyss box is getting released latter this year so maybe a codex based on them (hopefully with weapon and unit size options) and could be reference to the sister vs traitor box.

Ps first time I used the spoiler command. Thank you fir the idea

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Spoiler:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
I believe and hope that we will be released we with a Sisters vs Hereticus militarum box just due to demand, but would not be surprised if they don't abd we get more disappointment.

Like that old rumour?

I'd eat my own words, but only if for once the chaos side is actually hlafway decent

However one positive there is.
The cultists are equipped with stubcarbines, which are assault 3 s3 18" in admech.

Which would be a really nice gun to have on grunts, as for the aesthetic of the Cultists, firebrand with cable backside insertion aside, the cultists look good, but better suited to fight alongside csm.
However 3rd Parties help out massively in that regard.

My sister in law is thinking about a sisters army so that works out and it will be well suited and thematic IMHO. Also cheaper for ya hopefully since sisters are mono pose it maybe the cheap boxes like the know no fear boxes I love.

Oh I didnt even notice the stub carbine. That's cool

I think cultists are still suited for R&H and Servants since both are not just military elements but general heretics as well. Personally I would normally skip them for the trench style of my army but i do love the vraks style and the northern flank which was nurgle based and was cultists as well as deamons, military and nurgle marines.

Question: I'm looking at taking a Purge Devastation battery to go with my servants/r&h and deamon/death guard(poxwalker list) list.
The plan is to take the objectives and tie up enemy units with the troops, and use the purge stratagem to fire the fight to take out enemy vehicles. If I'm using poxwalkers I can pop the dead walk stratagem and fire into their fight to recuperate fallen poxwalkers.
What do you think is better havoks or obliterators?

Honest answer, both are bad.
In your case go with Oblits however keep the detachment limit in mind.
Havocs just die too fast and Oblits that are not Slaanesh seriously have the succ unless you spam the nurgle tree thingy, and even then Oblits are not good, due to beeing unreliable (you think r&h morale is bad, take a look at the "weapon" Oblits have) expensive (115 pts /Obliterator is not a winning proposition often) and extremely cp hungry (command rerolls to save the gun throws, VotLW if you have access to it, purge shenanigans, etc)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WinterLantern wrote:
If the new blackstone cultists have to take carbines, heavy stubbers and flamers i'd happily take them.

Nade launcher autoguns and stubcarbines, it will 75% of the time be another absolutely abmissmal forced equipment situation.

Just the new leader get's a flamer fuelled by what i only can assume is fart gas.

Thank you for the advice what is VotLW?
And you still stay that grenade launchers are good on militia which only hits on a 5+, atleast cultists hit on a 4+ (not condoning the lack of weapon options but just stating that its probably how I would equip them anyway. Guard for front line with their armour and ld and cultists for fire support.
The firebrand is most likely a new hq or elite not inbeded on the unit and he does buff them (how we don't know yet but better than anything rdh give them currently).

Oh I've heard on fb that a servants of the abyss box is getting released latter this year so maybe a codex based on them (hopefully with weapon and unit size options) and could be reference to the sister vs traitor box.

Ps first time I used the spoiler command. Thank you fir the idea

The nade launcher is fine. Fine enough, just rarely a point for it when the stubber is 1 pts less with more strength and range. ( ofcourse with better BS that might change due to krak nades

I bet the firebrand get's an aura. because GW is lazy

VotWL is a 1 CP stratagem on a unit that is from a traitor legion. (so not for purge) Which improves all wound rolls by one. (Veterans of the long war)
Yes that means that boltguns can wound knights with t8 on 5+. It's an extremely good stratagem and a even better failsave for Obliterators, however purge don't get it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW just a thought experiment.
If indeed we for whatever reason would get access to stub carbines would you field them? For all infantry of course?Even if they would be potentially 1 pts/ model?

Not Online!!! wrote:
[
BTW just a thought experiment.
If indeed we for whatever reason would get access to stub carbines would you field them? For all infantry of course?Even if they would be potentially 1 pts/ model?

I'd take stub carbines. a point for 3 shots each is a pretty good deal. I wish sonic blasters were just one or two points.