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How come there are so few Genestealer cult players out there? I have been curious about them but it's hard to find people who play them. Really would like an opinion about them. Especially when it comes to competitive games. What works best? What to ally with and so forth.

Very new (old) faction that finally got re released, so less of a following.

That and they kind of got monumentally shafted by having a codex drop, built around a really cool ambush/insurgent skills etc. and then having 8th drop and losing most of what made them cool. They have some new possibilities in 8th as a bridge for Nid beasties and IG tanks, but I lost a lot of my enthusiasm for them after reading the changes, whereas I loved the way they played before.

Yeah I can see that. Return to the shadows (?) seemed pretty solid. And now removed. I was really eager to start an army when they returned. But I didn't play 40k then. I don't know how the ally rules work. But I really like the Tyranid/Cult/Astra mix. Is it possible to have a Swarmlord to lead the army and still have Astra tanks in the army for example?

 Gharnukk wrote:
Yeah I can see the. Return to the shadows (?) seemed pretty solid. And now removed. I was really eager to start an army when they returned. But I didn't play 40k then. I don't know how the ally rules work. But I really like the Tyranid/Cult/Astra mix. Is it possible to have a Swarmlord to lead the army and still have Astra tanks in the army for example?

As of right now, yes, even in matched play. Due to the way the Brood Brother's rule is written, you can include an Astra Militarum detachment in a battleforged army and ignore units with the Astra Militarum keyword when determining what keyword your army has in common.

Of course outside of matched play you could just take an Astra Militarum detachment regardless.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Gharnukk wrote:
Yeah I can see the. Return to the shadows (?) seemed pretty solid. And now removed. I was really eager to start an army when they returned. But I didn't play 40k then. I don't know how the ally rules work. But I really like the Tyranid/Cult/Astra mix. Is it possible to have a Swarmlord to lead the army and still have Astra tanks in the army for example?

As of right now, yes, even in matched play. Due to the way the Brood Brother's rule is written, you can include an Astra Militarum detachment in a battleforged army and ignore units with the Astra Militarum keyword when determining what keyword your army has in common.

Of course outside of matched play you could just take an Astra Militarum detachment regardless.

Wow. I really like that. I am not so caught up on the Astra rules. But I have read a lot that they are pretty hot this edition? What tanks would work well with the Cult?

Also, the distinctly cult models like neophytes and acolytes are rather expensive money-wise for their survivability... I bought 2 Overkills to get enough bodies and will probably get 2 kits just to kitbash the extra weapons. An astra militarum themed one would be more affordable I think - the 10 neophytes + chimera is a good bargain kit.

 Gharnukk wrote:
Yeah I can see that. Return to the shadows (?) seemed pretty solid. And now removed. I was really eager to start an army when they returned. But I didn't play 40k then. I don't know how the ally rules work. But I really like the Tyranid/Cult/Astra mix. Is it possible to have a Swarmlord to lead the army and still have Astra tanks in the army for example?

I don't think so. You can have GC units alongside AM units, but the Swarmlord doesn't have the GC faction.

Right?

 Gharnukk wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Gharnukk wrote:
Yeah I can see the. Return to the shadows (?) seemed pretty solid. And now removed. I was really eager to start an army when they returned. But I didn't play 40k then. I don't know how the ally rules work. But I really like the Tyranid/Cult/Astra mix. Is it possible to have a Swarmlord to lead the army and still have Astra tanks in the army for example?

As of right now, yes, even in matched play. Due to the way the Brood Brother's rule is written, you can include an Astra Militarum detachment in a battleforged army and ignore units with the Astra Militarum keyword when determining what keyword your army has in common.

Of course outside of matched play you could just take an Astra Militarum detachment regardless.

Wow. I really like that. I am not so caught up on the Astra rules. But I have read a lot that they are pretty hot this edition? What tanks would work well with the Cult?

For AM what's hot are mortar teams and conscripts. For tanks stuff like manticore and basilisk are good. Russ less so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:

 Gharnukk wrote:
Yeah I can see that. Return to the shadows (?) seemed pretty solid. And now removed. I was really eager to start an army when they returned. But I didn't play 40k then. I don't know how the ally rules work. But I really like the Tyranid/Cult/Astra mix. Is it possible to have a Swarmlord to lead the army and still have Astra tanks in the army for example?

I don't think so. You can have GC units alongside AM units, but the Swarmlord doesn't have the GC faction.

Right?

Yes you can. Just bit harder.

Detachment 1: Genestealer cult.
Detachment 2: AM
Detachment 3: Tyranids(with swarmlord)

GSC units have tyranid faction so you can have them and tyranid detachments. GSC detachment meanwhile unlocks AM detachment.

Huh. I should read the faction rules more closely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GSC + AM + vanguard critters would be very fluffy.

But yeah i am gonna do GSC with some guard and Lictors

I have started collecting an army, but they are pretty expensive, so it is slow going. I haven't played any games with them yet.

My guess is that the high price tag is turning a lot of people off, despite the great miniatures.

They're quite expensive, extremely focussed style of playing, not many units available and they're a very new army, not a lot of Gen cult players have collected 2000 points of that army yet, other armies are available since decades. I also find the models disgusting.

Expensive how? Cash or on a point by point level?

 Gharnukk wrote:
Expensive how? Cash or on a point by point level?

Presumably price of models compared to points they give. You need looooots of infantry which is pricey prospect to build.

Same reasn that keeps me at least for now away from cultist&militia for HH. Price of getting like ~1000 pts is easily around 500e there...

tneva82 wrote:

 Gharnukk wrote:
Expensive how? Cash or on a point by point level?

Presumably price of models compared to points they give. You need looooots of infantry which is pricey prospect to build.

Same reasn that keeps me at least for now away from cultist&militia for HH. Price of getting like ~1000 pts is easily around 500e there...

So basically the same issue that I have with Tyranids. More expensive than other Xenos.

Yeah, I'm guessing it's a combination of one of their key troops choices being twenty-five quid for a box of five 11pt guys, and the fact the first set of official rules for them in about 25 years only came out in the second half of last year – it takes a while to paint up all those gribbly lads. I'm only up to about 500pts of stuff for mine so far.

Yeah that's a bummer. Gets more expensive I guess with the Tanks? Don't know what a Basilisk or Chimera costs but I guess not that much.

 Gharnukk wrote:


Yeah that's a bummer. Gets more expensive I guess with the Tanks? Don't know what a Basilisk or Chimera costs but I guess not that much.

31£ for 100 pts basilisk.

25£ for 50pts of cultists+upgrades.

I would say vehicles give you cheaper army per £.

Yeah. I guess. Depends on how many Tanks you need

There's also the fact that the baseline Genestealer got buffed. Tyranids are on the rise and they're a bit cheaper than GSC now.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
There's also the fact that the baseline Genestealer got buffed. Tyranids are on the rise and they're a bit cheaper than GSC now.

The Genestealers for the Cult can be buffed and hit as hard as the Patriarch?

So I have never been up-to-date on GSC, but what did they change about cult ambush that made them less interesting?

The table you roll on seems largely the same if not better than the 7th edition table?

DaPino wrote:
So I have never been up-to-date on GSC, but what did they change about cult ambush that made them less interesting?

The table you roll on seems largely the same if not better than the 7th edition table?

I don't know if the ambush chart is the problem. I think it is the fact that the return to the shadows rule was removed. The ability to attack and then go back to hide again was rather nice.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes you can. Just bit harder.

Detachment 1: Genestealer cult.
Detachment 2: AM
Detachment 3: Tyranids(with swarmlord)

GSC units have tyranid faction so you can have them and tyranid detachments. GSC detachment meanwhile unlocks AM detachment.

Just keep in mind that Swarmy's abilities won't affect the GSC units as they don't have the <Hive Fleet> keyword.

 Battlesong wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Yes you can. Just bit harder.

Detachment 1: Genestealer cult.
Detachment 2: AM
Detachment 3: Tyranids(with swarmlord)

GSC units have tyranid faction so you can have them and tyranid detachments. GSC detachment meanwhile unlocks AM detachment.

Just keep in mind that Swarmy's abilities won't affect the GSC units as they don't have the <Hive Fleet> keyword.

Good catch.

IMO it's not that the Ambush chart is much weaker now, but rather the gameplay mechanics do not work well with it.

The horde style means you are probably going second, and our paper saves leave much to be desired for a melee centric army. If you want to focus more on shooting, they are lacking there as well. Then you consider the easy availability of Deep Strike (and no scatter at that), and most of those units do not have to rely on making a nine inch charge to be effective. They can also guarantee their location, whereas GSC still has to roll on a random chart. I'd have preferred to see something with a D3, with maybe a 3 allowing for a charge upon arrival. Even that would be less impactful than 7th since models can fall back and you would then be open to getting shot.

Removing RTTS without changing the models' statline hurts, but hopefully it will come back with the supplements. Before you could leave the board and get some models back, but now you are left to footslog across the map after arriving (can't ambush with vehicles).

With all that being said I recently started my GSC Army. I am currently sitting at 2 boxes of Neos, 2 boxes of Acolytes, the Deathwatch Overkill box, and I am about to get 18 more Purestrains. I've enjoyed modeling and painting the start to my army, and I like the fluff behind them. $40 for five models hurts, especially considering you only get one of each special weapon per box.. but there is always Ebay.

There's some incentive to running AM with GSC.

A Patriarch with 15x (ed: 20x actually) Purestrains can be added to almost any AM army legally, right now. The only restriction is that it must keep a 1 to 1 ratio for detachments.

That's a lot of attacks that hit at 2+ (with an option to re-roll 1s), with access to a psychic power that stops overwatch. Not to mention that the unit auto-passes Morale. There's also that the entire group (Patriarch and Genestealers) can cult ambush together. 2/6 rolls on the table virtually guarantees a successful charge. Mind you, you can use command point re-rolls for the ambush table, psychic power and/or charge distance too.

The only thing that's prevented me from starting a GSC army is the entry price. It's a horde army with some extremely pricy basic kits ($40 for acolyte hybrids). You can always pick up DW:O, but I hate having that many static poses. I'm hoping for a Start Collecting box to mitigate that price a bit, but I may just make a mixed force of Cult Guard, Cultists, and Tyranids one of these days.

I am thinking about starting a GSC army. I really want to get a Baneblade but i don't want to start IG. And in a GSC army i can use the Genestealers from my tyranid army.

I think that the army can be really fun to play. That's why I was surprised that I saw so little about them