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So, for 150 pts you can get a 10 man unit of warp talons. I'd like to run 4 units like this for a good alpha strike. If you have a chaos lord w jump pack, he can then go down w them. And, if they're aligned w tzeentch (as has been pointed out to me recently), the changeling can make the enemy -1 to hit against them. Furthermore, they can't be overwatched when they come down and declare charges, the changeling could use boon of change on one unit. With 40 of these guys, you'd get 84 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling ones, with -2 to armour. A herald of tzeentch on a disk (to get in range) could also buff them up to s5 and use boon of change on another squad. So then you have 43 models in your opponents face, all with 5+ invuln at worst, and all forcing -1 to hit, that can devastate on the charge. For well under 1000 points. Say you're running a 2k game, you've then got loads of points spare to pile on the pain and disorder at range.

This seems like a pretty solid alpha strike tactic. Any thoughts on whether this would be remotely effective?

Edit: I forgot to account for the cost of lightning claws, which cost 13 for a pair.

Their problem is getting in. Only 1/4 of your basic deep strike squads are going to actually charge the turn they come in unless you get a reroll somehow.

You could take a sorcerer with jump pack to use warp time on a squad.

Have you added the points for the pair of Lightning Claws? I don't imagine that a Warp Talon costs 15 points

Edit: nevermind you updated the thread

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
You could take a sorcerer with jump pack to use warp time on a squad.

Yep. This works fantastically for one unit.
For an entire army theory, I would not go there.

But for one unit, it's gravy.

Why do people ALWAYS fail to account for the fact that making a 9'' charge is extremely unlikely?

Like, people say the same thing about terminators. "Dude deathwing is awesome I'll DS all my stuff and charge you" no you won't lol. You''ll DS, fail your charge and then I'll shoot you off the board next turn.

And this is discounting the fact that any good player is going to use the 9'' rule to heard you into only being able to charge into his crappy chafe units. Your mini deathstar is at best going to succeed in tearing up some scouts before they die.

Sorry I tell you but changeling only affects tzeentch daemons. Not csm :(

Problem with Warp Talons has always been the price. You're paying around 1200 points for 4 x 10 man squads, and only one of them (on average) would actually hit it's target.

Were it not for the cost (i.e. if they really were only 150 points a squad) I would say they are a good turn 3 unit. Drop them in after your opponent is locked in with the rest of your army.

Ecdain wrote:
Sorry I tell you but changeling only affects tzeentch daemons. Not csm :(

Warp Talons have the Daemon Keyword. YMMV if the Daemon keyword is the same as the Daemon Faction Keyword.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Problem with Warp Talons has always been the price. You're paying around 1200 points for 4 x 10 man squads, and only one of them (on average) would actually hit it's target.

Were it not for the cost (i.e. if they really were only 150 points a squad) I would say they are a good turn 3 unit. Drop them in after your opponent is locked in with the rest of your army.

Right - It works a treat when you don't build your army around one unit. Then your deepstriking unit has support and won't be burning 2CP to get blown away next turn.

The only way I can see of improving the Deep strike charge reliability is Lord Akos the FW character and stack up plenty of CP for rerolls


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The changeling sounds good in theory but how are you going to get it into range?

A wing prince warptimed could get into range for combat buffs.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Problem with Warp Talons has always been the price. You're paying around 1200 points for 4 x 10 man squads, and only one of them (on average) would actually hit it's target.

Were it not for the cost (i.e. if they really were only 150 points a squad) I would say they are a good turn 3 unit. Drop them in after your opponent is locked in with the rest of your army.

Don't you want the Warp Talons in first so whatever else you have charging at the enemy doesn't have to suffer overwatch?

Ecdain wrote:
Sorry I tell you but changeling only affects tzeentch daemons. Not csm :(

I have posed this question on YMDC.
If you still disagree, please post your rules argument so we can discuss

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730761.page#9459699

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why do people ALWAYS fail to account for the fact that making a 9'' charge is extremely unlikely?

Like, people say the same thing about terminators. "Dude deathwing is awesome I'll DS all my stuff and charge you" no you won't lol. You''ll DS, fail your charge and then I'll shoot you off the board next turn.

And this is discounting the fact that any good player is going to use the 9'' rule to heard you into only being able to charge into his crappy chafe units. Your mini deathstar is at best going to succeed in tearing up some scouts before they die.

Thats why you take a balanced army and DS your terminators in turn 3-4 instead of 1-2, where the enemy has gaps between his army after some rounds of shooting and meele
Instead of going all or nothing with a Deathstar alpha-strike build.

the_scotsman wrote:
Their problem is getting in. Only 1/4 of your basic deep strike squads are going to actually charge the turn they come in unless you get a reroll somehow.

lol somehow?

besides the big new command mechanic?

yeah its not 100% guaranteed since its only 1 dice per phase but still you can at least count on 2 units at the minimum getting into combat. just got to make sure those two count

it's an above 50% chance to make the 92 charge with a reroll, but it's not an amazing chance even still

GAdvance wrote:
it's an above 50% chance to make the 92 charge with a reroll, but it's not an amazing chance even still

It's one of the few really good things about summoning daemons.

Given that an instrument gives a +1 to the charge range, they have a 41.66% of making 8 or more on 2d6.

You can use a command die reroll one dice for this charge, greatly increasing the chance of it being made to 68%.