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So a Swarmlord and 40 Hormagaunts comes to 500pts. Pretty good huh? Especially when the swarmlord casts catalyst and onslaught on the Hormagaunts giving them a 5+ FNP and a move and advance in the psychic phase as well as the move and advance he gives them in the shooting phase on top of the moving normally in the movement phase. Onslaught also lets them charge despite advancing RAW. So a potential 3 8" moves and 3 advances averaging 11" and a average 7" charge means they have a threat range of 48" with a 5+ FNP and re-rolling 1s to hit and wound. if you take 33 instead of 40 you can afford toxin sacks which cause double damage on 6s. They also ignore moral if near a synapse creature.

The first issue I see is keeping the swarmlord in range of the hormagaunts but that could be fixed by pairing him with a Trygon Prime to get him up the table to where the gaunts will be and maybe then a cheap synapse creature like a tyranid prime to baby sit them first turn if you don't have it.

What do you think? Are these guys flying under the radar while conscripts get all the attention?

Are these guys flying under the radar while conscripts get all the attention?

Nope. 20 less wounds, no shooting (let alone no method of doubling firepower to 200 dice rolls) and a worse save make it a completely different kettle of squirming xenos bits.

Plus a higher point per model cost for the Hormagaunts, and the solid 300 points for the Swarmlord (who isn't that snazzy defensively).... yeah, not the same at all. Especially since the swarmlord has to be within spitting distance of the gaunts to keep buffing them, not a tenth of that cost and hiding behind anything convenient.

This combination is paying for the benefits they're getting (and parts, like onslaught, aren't even certain), and you're talking about another 200 point model to get the Swarmlord in place safely [though this doesn't work, as he isn't a Troops unit], and maybe another 100 point babysitter.

Either way, at 500 points minimum, or a quarter of an army, for less wounds than the 200 points max (or 10% of an army), you're not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

Voss wrote:

Are these guys flying under the radar while conscripts get all the attention?

Nope. 20 less wounds, no shooting (let alone no method of doubling firepower to 200 dice rolls) and a worse save make it a completely different kettle of squirming xenos bits.

Plus a higher point per model cost for the Hormagaunts, and the solid 300 points for the Swarmlord (who isn't that snazzy defensively).... yeah, not the same at all. Especially since the swarmlord has to be within spitting distance of the gaunts to keep buffing them, not a tenth of that cost and hiding behind anything convenient.

This combination is paying for the benefits they're getting (and parts, like onslaught, aren't even certain), and you're talking about another 200 point model to get the Swarmlord in place safely [though this doesn't work, as he isn't a Troops unit], and maybe another 100 point babysitter.

Either way, at 500 points minimum, or a quarter of an army, for less wounds than the 200 points max (or 10% of an army), you're not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That gunline has a 24" range on it. If deploying on the short axis, ensure the tyranids go first...and all that guard firepower is neutered. If longways, it wouldn't matter, turn 1 keep them under the 24+6 range for std move and shoot, roll up on them next turn and tie up the units in CC. Any other units on guard side not tied up in CC has nothing to shoot at.

I'd rather roll some stealers out front to get the first round of lockup done (Mmm.... now that's a unit the swarmlord can buff) then wen the gaunts show up they are slicing through whatever is already tied up and/or going directly after the bubblewrapped HQ of the guard.

I have no idea what would actually happen though, at a 25pp game there is only so much that can be on the table from either end. Conscripts are stupid broken though hehe

 ncshooter426 wrote:

Voss wrote:

Are these guys flying under the radar while conscripts get all the attention?

Nope. 20 less wounds, no shooting (let alone no method of doubling firepower to 200 dice rolls) and a worse save make it a completely different kettle of squirming xenos bits.

Plus a higher point per model cost for the Hormagaunts, and the solid 300 points for the Swarmlord (who isn't that snazzy defensively).... yeah, not the same at all. Especially since the swarmlord has to be within spitting distance of the gaunts to keep buffing them, not a tenth of that cost and hiding behind anything convenient.

This combination is paying for the benefits they're getting (and parts, like onslaught, aren't even certain), and you're talking about another 200 point model to get the Swarmlord in place safely [though this doesn't work, as he isn't a Troops unit], and maybe another 100 point babysitter.

Either way, at 500 points minimum, or a quarter of an army, for less wounds than the 200 points max (or 10% of an army), you're not exactly comparing apples to apples here.

That gunline has a 24" range on it. If deploying on the short axis, ensure the tyranids go first...and all that guard firepower is neutered. If longways, it wouldn't matter, turn 1 keep them under the 24+6 range for std move and shoot, roll up on them next turn and tie up the units in CC. Any other units on guard side not tied up in CC has nothing to shoot at.

I'd rather roll some stealers out front to get the first round of lockup done (Mmm.... now that's a unit the swarmlord can buff) then wen the gaunts show up they are slicing through whatever is already tied up and/or going directly after the bubblewrapped HQ of the guard.

I have no idea what would actually happen though, at a 25pp game there is only so much that can be on the table from either end. Conscripts are stupid broken though hehe

Sounds promising, use the Stealers to clean the chaff, then zoom the Hormies in to tie up the backfield, they've got an enhanced ability (6" vs 3") so it Might just work...

Conscripts + Commissars are overrated when compared to Brimestone Horrors

50 Conscripts (150 points) shooting at 50 Brimestone Horrors with the Changeling nearby (100 + 100 Points) using rapid fire and their orders equates to

200 shots at 6+ > 33.33 hits > S3 vs T3 > 16.66 wounds > 4++ = 8.33 unsaved wounds

This totals to about 8.5 dead from shooting and 5 dead from morale.

13.5 dead 2 point models per turn in an optimum scenario for the conscripts. The Changleing only has to be within 9'' to buff them and for every 50 Conscripts there's 125 Horrors to get through.

50 conscripts? Meet the razowing flock.

Ka Ka baby!.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

pinecone77 wrote:

Sounds promising, use the Stealers to clean the chaff, then zoom the Hormies in to tie up the backfield, they've got an enhanced ability (6" vs 3") so it Might just work...

Stealers get down right evil with a broodlord. Move+adv+Charge, along with +1A is absurdly painful.

Am I misreading Onslaught?

I can't see where it says you can move and advance in the Psychic phase?

I read it as if you have moved+advanced with a unit, and then cast Onslaught, it can fire and charge as if it had not moved?

Usually if something lets you do something out of phase they add a sentence saying "may X as if it was their X phase".

So much wrong here.

First, hormagaunts come in units of 10-30. You cannot bring a unit of 40..

Second, onslaught does not allow you to move or advance at all. What it does is reduce the penalties for moving and advancing. Most importantly for this example, it would allow the hormagaunts to move and advance in the movement phase. get onslaught casted on them in psychic (they are not moving at all in the psychic phase, just receiving the buff) and then have the swarmlord use hive commander on them in the shooting phase, NOW allowing them to move and advance again, and then, because of onslaught, charge in the assault phase.

 Lance845 wrote:
So much wrong here.

First, hormagaunts come in units of 10-30. You cannot bring a unit of 40..

Second, onslaught does not allow you to move or advance at all. What it does is reduce the penalties for moving and advancing. Most importantly for this example, it would allow the hormagaunts to move and advance in the movement phase. get onslaught casted on them in psychic (they are not moving at all in the psychic phase, just receiving the buff) and then have the swarmlord use hive commander on them in the shooting phase, NOW allowing them to move and advance again, and then, because of onslaught, charge in the assault phase.

this + he mentioned Swarmlord coming out of Trygon tunnel. Trygon's can only transport troops.

Could pod him in instead?

zerosignal wrote:
Could pod him in instead?

Sure! Doesn't change that every single facet of his initial combo was wrong.

As the points in the game go up you need tyrant guards to keep the swarmlord alive. More points is more guns on him turn 1.

my bad guys, i read cast onslaught on a unit and that unit can advance and charge and got excited, didn't read the rest of it close enough. Reduces their threat range by 11" on average. 37" threat range is still nothing to turn your nose up at though!

Now that i've got my facts straight... 578pts + the cost of another unit on the table, to move 30 hormagaunts 37" with the swarmlord being brought in on a tyranocyte. Pretty good no?

Yeah,The Swarmlord went from a unit you would be insane to take in 7th to our best and brightest in 8th.

It's ok but I found that Hormagaunts don't pack enough punch to waste all those resources on. You're better off using this strategy on Genestealers. Genestealers come with an onslaught equivalent ability, so no need to rely on a random roll (psychic). Use the Hive Commander ability on them to catapult them into melee with their 4 attacks each with better WS, better Strength and better AP. The only downside is that a unit of 20 costs 240.

Hormagaunta have their use. They're a cheap screening unit and you can use them to lock things in combat, but they're not going to be the unit that actually kills much.

 Zimko wrote:
It's ok but I found that Hormagaunts don't pack enough punch to waste all those resources on. You're better off using this strategy on Genestealers. Genestealers come with an onslaught equivalent ability, so no need to rely on a random roll (psychic). Use the Hive Commander ability on them to catapult them into melee with their 4 attacks each with better WS, better Strength and better AP. The only downside is that a unit of 20 costs 240.

Hormagaunta have their use. They're a cheap screening unit and you can use them to lock things in combat, but they're not going to be the unit that actually kills much.

In combination with this drop pod in a broodlord if you can't otherwise get him in range and daisychain one or two stealers to still be within his range after you charge. You lose 4-8 attacks on the chain but you get 2+ to hit. Keep in mind you dont need to move up every model on the charge, just the ones that do need to end up closer to the enemy

Honestly - swarm-lord is not that great. All he is good for doing is splitting up your advance. Getting 1 unit into combat turn 1 does nothing in 8th eddition - it used to mean you were safe from shooting and when your units finally finished off the enemy in their turn you would be free to assualt another unit again. In 8th...you get into combat - kill a little more than you lose on overwatch then are straned all alone in front a gak ton of rapid fire guns that you just double their power against you by getting close. Doesn't matter which unit you chose - horma/geenstealers - you have to hit with a combined attack all at the same time - so I say leave swarmy home unless you are in a 3000 point game or something where his hive command ability can be used to reinforce a hole in your lines or something. Or just use his ability on himself and get him in combat faster.

It sounds dope but if they bolt out of synapse all they have to do is kill half the hormogaunts in the shooting phase the rest will die to morale.

Having used the swarmlord... his ability is definitely worth the cost. In my most recent game, I played against a Necron player that used the deciever to move 3 units to the opposite side of my lines from the genestealers. I used Swarmlord's ability to move the Genestealers half way across the board to engage the repositioned threat (20 warriors and 10 immortals) preventing them from shooting next turn. Then I launched Old One Eye into another warrior blob that would have been unreachable otherwise. With up to 10 attacks per phase, he was able to wipe that unit on his own in 2 turns after morale, despite reanimation.

The Swarmlord is a force multiplier and it's hard to quantify his ability until you try it. But I only use it on units that do a lot of damage. Hormagaunts can manage getting across the board on their own. I use them more as a bubble wrap vs enemy melee (30 boyz or enemy genestealers) or as a means to silence an enemy shooting for a turn. I also use a Malonthrope to shroud the Swarmlord, Old One Eye and 3 Carnifexes. It helps a lot.

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
It sounds dope but if they bolt out of synapse all they have to do is kill half the hormogaunts in the shooting phase the rest will die to morale.

Have a daisy chain trailing back to the synapse range. You control which models die, and both charge and pile in moves are 'can move' or 'may move.' The first model in a charge has to end up within 1", but other than that the only limitation is that if they DO move, they have to move closer to the nearest enemy.