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Just looking for some info about the Spartan and Fire Raptor. Considering splurging on these models but not sure on the new stats from the recent FW indexes. Could anyone help out with some advice/stats?

Don't bother with the Spartan for matched play. It's a Relic, which means you need another non-relic in the same detachment to take it, and it's a Lord of War. This means that you need another non-LoW to take the Spartan, and because the only detachment with more than 1 LoW slot is the one with 3-5 LoW slots, means that if you want to take a spartan, you must take two other non-relic LoW's.

 Mulletdude wrote:
Don't bother with the Spartan for matched play. It's a Relic, which means you need another non-relic in the same detachment to take it, and it's a Lord of War. This means that you need another non-LoW to take the Spartan, and because the only detachment with more than 1 LoW slot is the one with 3-5 LoW slots, means that if you want to take a spartan, you must take two other non-relic LoW's.

Which makes me wonder if they forgot that rule for chaos.

 Mulletdude wrote:
Don't bother with the Spartan for matched play. It's a Relic, which means you need another non-relic in the same detachment to take it, and it's a Lord of War. This means that you need another non-LoW to take the Spartan, and because the only detachment with more than 1 LoW slot is the one with 3-5 LoW slots, means that if you want to take a spartan, you must take two other non-relic LoW's.

This is definitely the stuff I'm looking for, thanks.

I'm away from my IA books at the moment. Can you be more specific about the relic rules and what you need to take to unlock them? Spartans look pretty great to me, and I had planned on using one in my Deathwing army. Maybe I'll have to rethink those plans!

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:
Don't bother with the Spartan for matched play. It's a Relic, which means you need another non-relic in the same detachment to take it, and it's a Lord of War. This means that you need another non-LoW to take the Spartan, and because the only detachment with more than 1 LoW slot is the one with 3-5 LoW slots, means that if you want to take a spartan, you must take two other non-relic LoW's.

This is definitely the stuff I'm looking for, thanks.

This isn't a thing for chaos. It's just a normal unit, no strings attached other than being a lord of war.

It's crazy that I can't just plug a Spartan into a list...why would FW take this direction? Wouldn't it hurt sales? I am actually not going to buy one now just because of this.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
It's crazy that I can't just plug a Spartan into a list...why would FW take this direction? Wouldn't it hurt sales? I am actually not going to buy one now just because of this.

it's honestly a mistake on their part, they wheren't thinking (these are rushed products) the idea of the relic rule is to make them rare and special. IMHO lrods of war should just ignore this, ALL lords of war are, IMHO by definition "rare and special"

I hope that they decide against this over time, because it's a downer for the customer and losing sales is a downer for the company. Everyone loses with this decision.

It's not a new rule though. They had this before too, for chaos as well. Not sure how it works now but it wasn't much of a restriction in 7th.

How is the Fire Raptor looking? Is it still better than the Storm Raven in terms of firepower?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I hope that they decide against this over time, because it's a downer for the customer and losing sales is a downer for the company. Everyone loses with this decision.

Man, I completely agree. That all but dashes my hopes of a Spartan in my Deathwing army. I'm not sure what else I would include to work one in.

I made a comment on the FW Facebook page regarding this issue. It might not hurt to drop a comment, if you want the rule to get muted a little.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/ForgeWorldUK/posts/?ref=page_internal

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I hope that they decide against this over time, because it's a downer for the customer and losing sales is a downer for the company. Everyone loses with this decision.

IMO they should just stop rushing rules. Or, better yet, stop writing rules alltogether and just have GW do it.

I mean, IIRC didn't GW buy FW back like a decade ago? LIke when they decided to stop selling lead models and made the switch over to resin?

Just, go all in, merge the companies completely, and turn Forge World into a separate line of models rather than a subsidiary they don't really talk to or work with.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
It's crazy that I can't just plug a Spartan into a list...why would FW take this direction? Wouldn't it hurt sales? I am actually not going to buy one now just because of this.

it's honestly a mistake on their part, they wheren't thinking (these are rushed products) the idea of the relic rule is to make them rare and special. IMHO lrods of war should just ignore this, ALL lords of war are, IMHO by definition "rare and special"

my thinking is this is probably to avoid tournament spam or something. a player could always plug two in super heavy auxiliary detachments for narrative/ open play one relic one normal

another option if you wanted match play would be a super elite list with a relic, two knights and then a second detachment to fill said Spartan though admittedly that is pretty much going to be most to the army.

As I understand it, the Relic rule as written doesn't allow you to take any relic LoW choices outside of the Super-heavy Detachment at all since it's the only one with 2+ LoW slots.

Spartan assault tank is really good (I used the chaos one).
Loaded it up with 20 zombies, Typhus and Necrosius. I called it the Pus Bus

Great for mid-late game deployment for taking objectives, and smashing who/whatever was standing on the objective.

The guns are super strong, great for taking down big units.

Anyone have info on the Fire Raptor?

 G00fySmiley wrote:


my thinking is this is probably to avoid tournament spam or something. a player could always plug two in super heavy auxiliary detachments for narrative/ open play one relic one normal

another option if you wanted match play would be a super elite list with a relic, two knights and then a second detachment to fill said Spartan though admittedly that is pretty much going to be most to the army.

I doubt it's about tournament spam, there's no such restrictions on Chaos for the hellforged versions of the same vehicles. It's almost certainly an oversight on the LOW side of things.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone have info on the Fire Raptor?

Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon is okay. It's basically a twin ass cannon but with damage 2.
Waist turrets are quad heavy bolter only - no option for the autocannons that come in the kit.
Missile launchers are okay and can be replaced with twin lascannons (x2).

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone have info on the Fire Raptor?

Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon is okay. It's basically a twin ass cannon but with damage 2.
Waist turrets are quad heavy bolter only - no option for the autocannons that come in the kit.
Missile launchers are okay and can be replaced with twin lascannons (x2).

Chaos Fire Raptor can replace Heavy Bolters with Reaper Battery.

So are we saying that the FW team started drinking while writing the Chaos rules and made sure they each finished a case before starting on the loyalist stuff? Sounds like the Chaos IA is a little more polished and reasonable.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone have info on the Fire Raptor?

Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon is okay. It's basically a twin ass cannon but with damage 2.
Waist turrets are quad heavy bolter only - no option for the autocannons that come in the kit.
Missile launchers are okay and can be replaced with twin lascannons (x2).

So is there any real reason to splurge on one if I can get a Storm Raven for half the cost?

MilkmanAl wrote:
So are we saying that the FW team started drinking while writing the Chaos rules and made sure they each finished a case before starting on the loyalist stuff? Sounds like the Chaos IA is a little more polished and reasonable.

No, we are saying that they were rushed by corporate and didn't have the capacity to check everything with their smaller team. That they need more people is evident from their release schedule, with only a couple of books a year. Their intent was most likely just to prevent players from taking a lot of the "rare" relic vehicles, and ended up breaking one specific case (LoW). I think the first indeces (Astartes, Chaos) worked out pretty okay, with some errors, but compare them to the disasters of the latter two and they are both quite polished.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone have info on the Fire Raptor?

Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon is okay. It's basically a twin ass cannon but with damage 2.
Waist turrets are quad heavy bolter only - no option for the autocannons that come in the kit.
Missile launchers are okay and can be replaced with twin lascannons (x2).

So is there any real reason to splurge on one if I can get a Storm Raven for half the cost?

Points wise, the Fire Raptor is ~150 points more expensive and you get about 18 heavy bolter shots, two S8 AP-3 D3 shots and 2 wounds for that price. Is that worth it? WIthout bodies, 6 heavy bolters are about 42 points and the other ones come to 48 points according to FW. I think it could be run, but it's by no means exceptional.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Anyone have info on the Fire Raptor?

Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon is okay. It's basically a twin ass cannon but with damage 2.
Waist turrets are quad heavy bolter only - no option for the autocannons that come in the kit.
Missile launchers are okay and can be replaced with twin lascannons (x2).

So is there any real reason to splurge on one if I can get a Storm Raven for half the cost?

Only that it looks cool s hell. Of course, it looks way better with the autocannons...