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After a few weeks and a number of games played I have come to the conclusion that this rule change is terrible for the Ork faction.

a TL Dakkagun in 7th would statistically put out 1.66 hits a turn, in 8th that went up to 2.0 hits per turn, nice right? Not quiet.

A TL Heavy Bolter (a better version of a Dakkagun) went from 2.66 hits in 7th to 4 hits in 8th for marines and went from 2 to 3 for IG.

Across the board this rule change greatly benefited armies with good BS and widened the gap in dakka for Orkz.

To add insult to injury, they also increased the price of our weapons across the board with the biggest increase being Rokkitz. A Deffkopta armed with TL Rokkitz in 7th was 30pts, in 8th its 83pts, to put that another way, TL Rokkitz went from a free upgrade to a 28pt upgrade. And just so you understand my point, a TL Rokkit in 7th had a 33% chance to hit and in 8th its now a 66% chance to hit with 1.


I am wondering why GW didn't give Ork weapons another shot almost across the board on our heavier weapons, Rokkitz could have stayed single shot but they should not be a 12pt upgrade or a 28pt upgrade for Twin Rokkitz, that is just ludicrous. The only units in the Ork Codex right now (not including FW models) you will see with a rokkit is Tank Bustas and maybe kanz, its just not worth it on anything else.

Twin weapons are better than twin-linked IMO, the problem is that Orks need some buffing.

Yeah ork shooting is just not really threatening in general I saw how little 30 boyz with shootas does in person Tuesday, by contrast even without ap5 I was dropping 3-4 orcs with bolters from a single pack.

Yeah it's quite perplexing. Another one that's been bothering me is that in addition to Orks' generally overpriced ranged weapons we pay over double the price of a single gun for a Twin Big Shoota, Kopta Rokkits and Rokkit Rack (which are both effectively Twin Rokkits). Whereas the other factions I've looked over (CSM, SM, IG) all pay double the price of the gun for a Twin version, or often less than twice the price. What the deuce?

Edited for autocorrect.

Twin is probably better for people that already have a good BS

breaks even between TL at BS4

then is worse at anything higher

Twin big shoota is something that needs more analysis. A HB is 10 and Twin HB is 17 while a BS is 6, but a Twin BS is 14.

Ork weapons seem generally designed to be as efficient as other heavy weapons on the move - hence all the assault style guns.

So, really the question is should orks be as point efficient as marines in shooting given their combat prowess?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah ork shooting is just not really threatening in general I saw how little 30 boyz with shootas does in person Tuesday, by contrast even without ap5 I was dropping 3-4 orcs with bolters from a single pack.

30 Boyz with shootas should kill 3.2 marines. That's 43 points disregarding upgrades. 4 Orcs is 24 points.

You could kill 5 orcs and they kill 2 marines and it'd be 30 to 26.

The issue gets compounded further since a lot of these better BS armies still have access to some sort of hit reroll and Orks don't.

 JohnU wrote:
The issue gets compounded further since a lot of these better BS armies still have access to some sort of hit reroll and Orks don't.

Then again what armies have access to +1 attack spell and a banner to make them hit on 2+ in combat? Or a way to deliver a unit of over 30 models that has a reroll to charges within 9" anywhere on the table?

If people want Orks to be Space Marines then play Space Marines.

 Desubot wrote:
Twin is probably better for people that already have a good BS

breaks even between TL at BS4

then is worse at anything higher

Twin is always better than twinlinked. Consider the the second dice you roll for your twin weapon is completely disgarded if your first dice hits. You can hit twice with a twin weapon - under no circumstance is a linked weapon better than 2 shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Twin big shoota is something that needs more analysis. A HB is 10 and Twin HB is 17 while a BS is 6, but a Twin BS is 14.

Ork weapons seem generally designed to be as efficient as other heavy weapons on the move - hence all the assault style guns.

So, really the question is should orks be as point efficient as marines in shooting given their combat prowess?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah ork shooting is just not really threatening in general I saw how little 30 boyz with shootas does in person Tuesday, by contrast even without ap5 I was dropping 3-4 orcs with bolters from a single pack.

30 Boyz with shootas should kill 3.2 marines. That's 43 points disregarding upgrades. 4 Orcs is 24 points.

You could kill 5 orcs and they kill 2 marines and it'd be 30 to 26.

Big shoota is an assault weapon no?

22 Shoota boyz is ~ 10 Bolter Marines in points(132 v 130)

Boyz have 44 shots at 18"
Marines have 10 at 10 " and 20 at 12"

at 12"
Boyz 14.66 hits
Tactical Marines 13.333 hits

As for Twin weapons and other armies. Some of it may depend on the platform. Marines typically only get those options on expensive vehicles (Razorback w/ Twin HB is 82 points is the cheapest) whereas orks can get them on buggies for 58 points. The closest points comparison would be 7 buggies = 5 Razorbacks. Or 21 shots vs 15 shots, so 7 hits vs 10 hits (if the RB doesn't move), if the RB moves it is 7 v 7.5.

It is important to note that most marine twin weapons are heavy while orks are assault. SO orks can move and shoot without losing accuracy.

Ork shooting is lack luster, but that is bound to happen in an army with stats intended for close combat. You end up paying for those stats.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Big shoota is an assault weapon no?

Yes and it isn't as great as a HB and Orks pay more for Twin weapons, but on the whole their army worries less about shooting on the move as they're designed to get into combat.

Now if you wanted a 'shooty' Ork army you'd focus on Gretchin based units.