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So, I have played a few games with my Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Armies and I have to say I am really liking the Thousand Sons. I have been playing Tzeentch CSM since 2nd edition and 8th is the first time that I can field the Rubic Marines and not feel like I am completely handicapping myself. I am not saying they are some top tier unit, but they certainly are actually playable now, even against some more competitive lists. I still think that they are a bit overpriced (I think 18 ppm with their bolter would have been on the money) and the sorcerer is over priced for what he does (again with the baby smite 20sih points would have been perfect) but it is nowhere near as bad as previous editions. Also they can survive a ton of small arms fire with the "all is dust" rule. I had an opponent shoot a squad of 6 with more than 10 splinter cannons, a few splinter rifle shots, and 4 lance shots and after all that, one was left (passed moral). And one kill was from a lance shot, so all that small arms really did not do much.

The Scarab Terminators are really good. They are probably the best Thousand Son's unit. I have 5 with all upgrades and deep strike them and they never fail to do a bunch of damage. I was thinking of taking them up to 9 (Tzeentch number) but I am not sure. Anyone use a larger than 5 squad and have results that justify the added expense?

I don't have my Tzzangors yet, so I haven't played them. I plan on putting 10 in a Rhino as an assault unit with chain swords and auto pi. I could field 20 with some beastmen models I have. Do people think 10 in a Rhino or 20 total is better? It is actually the same points unless you upgrade the Rhino.

My 20 cultists with ccw and auto pi don't seem to do much in most games. I use them to fill out the force org. They really should be a point cheaper on par with IG, espeically since the IG are better and have better range options.

I also have had some good experience with Arhiman. He is not much more expensive than the exulted, but he gets that +1 to cast, which has helped make his smite deadly a few more times that without it so far.

So overall I have been really happy with the Thousand Sons, and plan to consolidate my collection to just them and Tzeentch daemons and sell off my normal CSM.

My hopes for the Codex is that it is one of the 10 before Christmas that GW says is coming. Other than powers, traits ect., I also if they do a new model (or even not) I would love rules for a Thousand sons specific Dreadnought (not hellbrute, but Dreadnought). Give it a 5++, and the "All is Dust" rule (maybe damage 1-2 for that) and allow it to take reapers and Tson missles. Also take away crazed and reduce move to 5. I think that this would be really cool and fluffy. Any thoughts? Also I hope they make Arhiman's staff be something more than a straight 3d force staff. Casting smite 3 times (similar to the old power) would be cool, but that might be a bit too powerful.

So do people agree that you are liking Thousand Sons?

I've tried them a couple times and they feel good.

I run 2x10 rubric squads in a rhino with Soulreaper and a couple warpflamers for extra damage and that vital overwatch. A big blob of tzaangors on foot (nowhere close to worth a rhino Imo) as better melee cultists.

Biggest problem is that the main draw of the army gameplay wise (psychic powers) is blandy blandy boring to the max. One unit rerolls ones, one unit moves again, and a slightly different smite and that's it, and there's zero reason to include a second sorceror hq besides Ahriman/Magnus because one of those 2 can cast all 3 powers anyway.

If you're trying to be competitive Magnus is 1000% a no brainer. The psychic powers aren't good enough to warrant ahriman. Model and lore wise I hate Magnus so I'll be using Ahriman.

Other than rubrics you need lascannon preds because nothing else besides Magnus is good anti tank.

I like them sleeping on red snow.

I'm excited to play mine with my Tzeentch daemons. (I still haven't had a chance to play anything in 8th yet.) Magnus does well from what I've seen/heard. I do have him built up as well as Kairos Fateweaver. Most likely I will fill out my daemons more than Thousand Sons but right now I've got Magnus and a unit of SOT's. I love these models so I will likely get two more boxes. I also want to use the Prospero version of Ahriman. (Don't really care for the other version as much)

the_scotsman wrote:
I've tried them a couple times and they feel good.

I run 2x10 rubric squads in a rhino with Soulreaper and a couple warpflamers for extra damage and that vital overwatch. A big blob of tzaangors on foot (nowhere close to worth a rhino Imo) as better melee cultists.

Biggest problem is that the main draw of the army gameplay wise (psychic powers) is blandy blandy boring to the max. One unit rerolls ones, one unit moves again, and a slightly different smite and that's it, and there's zero reason to include a second sorceror hq besides Ahriman/Magnus because one of those 2 can cast all 3 powers anyway.

If you're trying to be competitive Magnus is 1000% a no brainer. The psychic powers aren't good enough to warrant ahriman. Model and lore wise I hate Magnus so I'll be using Ahriman.

Other than rubrics you need lascannon preds because nothing else besides Magnus is good anti tank.

I skip the rhinos and just take a 10 man tzaangor screen for each unit. A heldrake does the block and tackle backfield. Warptime and Scarabs help me be where I need to be.

Magnus is a no brainer, BUT I often find it hard to get enough coverage for the reroll 1s to hit and so i've been considering two daemon princes instead --

- DPs are T6 and 5++
- They bring 16 wounds to Magnus' 18
- They bring 14 S7 AP2 D2 attacks to Magnus' 7 S16 AP4 D3
- Hit on 2s just like Magnus
- Can hide
- Only reroll 1s to hit; no rerolls for invuln
- No plus to cast or big smite, but brings an extra smite (and 2D3 is better than 1D6)

Without warp bolters the pair is 55 points cheaper. Sure they don't kill tanks as easily, but Magnus overkills a rhino and can get stuck (yes, he can fly out) fighting garbage.

The only reason I haven't tried it is because I love putting Magnus on the table.

and there's zero reason to include a second sorceror hq besides Ahriman/Magnus because one of those 2 can cast all 3 powers anyway

Other than the detachment requirements.

I've been having some difficulties with my Thousand Sons, but I think that's largely because of an unusual meta - pretty much everyone runs a parking lot with at least one shooty Lord of War, whether it be a Felblade or an Imperial Knight. The few times I've gotten to play against a different type of army I've done very well.

Rubrics and Terminators are fantastic for ripping through chaff or MEQ's but big vehicles are a struggle... You can't really get good AV as Thousand Sons without paying 200+ points for it because we're barred from taking Havocs. In my next list I'm gonna try to take a bunch of Renegade Command Squads with lascannons and see if that helps.

Arachnofiend wrote:
I've been having some difficulties with my Thousand Sons, but I think that's largely because of an unusual meta - pretty much everyone runs a parking lot with at least one shooty Lord of War, whether it be a Felblade or an Imperial Knight. The few times I've gotten to play against a different type of army I've done very well.

Rubrics and Terminators are fantastic for ripping through chaff or MEQ's but big vehicles are a struggle... You can't really get good AV as Thousand Sons without paying 200+ points for it because we're barred from taking Havocs. In my next list I'm gonna try to take a bunch of Renegade Command Squads with lascannons and see if that helps.

We are not technically barred from taking havocs, but I avoid them just the same, because I want my list to transition to the codex smoothly.

Consider a contemptor with a c-beam in a corner for some anti-tank. Even a las pred can help out. Often enough I have a single helbrute with a multi-melta to help out plus a forgefiend with autocannons.

Yeah, by "barred" I mean that you can't take the <Thousand Sons> tag on them. I tried a Rapier Battery with a C-Beam and was really unhappy with it - I don't like 1-shot stuff in general because of the potential risk of rolling a 1, though I guess the contemptor would have 2 C-Beams.

My current list for 1750 is Arhiman, a daemon prince, 1 squad of 10 Rubics with soul reaper, 10 Tzzagors, 20 cultists, Rhino, Dred with plasma Cannon and claw, 4 las can predator, Helldrake with flamer, 5 Scarb Terms with reaper and missle, and then I summon a Burring charriot for some cheap AT/CC. I don't have the Tzzagors, so I have been using 9 rubics and no rhino and less cultists instead. I am kind of limited by my model collection, but I think I am going to look into getting Magnus based on what people are saying.

Daedalus81 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I've tried them a couple times and they feel good.

I run 2x10 rubric squads in a rhino with Soulreaper and a couple warpflamers for extra damage and that vital overwatch. A big blob of tzaangors on foot (nowhere close to worth a rhino Imo) as better melee cultists.

Biggest problem is that the main draw of the army gameplay wise (psychic powers) is blandy blandy boring to the max. One unit rerolls ones, one unit moves again, and a slightly different smite and that's it, and there's zero reason to include a second sorceror hq besides Ahriman/Magnus because one of those 2 can cast all 3 powers anyway.

If you're trying to be competitive Magnus is 1000% a no brainer. The psychic powers aren't good enough to warrant ahriman. Model and lore wise I hate Magnus so I'll be using Ahriman.

Other than rubrics you need lascannon preds because nothing else besides Magnus is good anti tank.

I skip the rhinos and just take a 10 man tzaangor screen for each unit. A heldrake does the block and tackle backfield. Warptime and Scarabs help me be where I need to be.

Magnus is a no brainer, BUT I often find it hard to get enough coverage for the reroll 1s to hit and so i've been considering two daemon princes instead --

- DPs are T6 and 5++
- They bring 16 wounds to Magnus' 18
- They bring 14 S7 AP2 D2 attacks to Magnus' 7 S16 AP4 D3
- Hit on 2s just like Magnus
- Can hide
- Only reroll 1s to hit; no rerolls for invuln
- No plus to cast or big smite, but brings an extra smite (and 2D3 is better than 1D6)

Without warp bolters the pair is 55 points cheaper. Sure they don't kill tanks as easily, but Magnus overkills a rhino and can get stuck (yes, he can fly out) fighting garbage.

The only reason I haven't tried it is because I love putting Magnus on the table.

and there's zero reason to include a second sorceror hq besides Ahriman/Magnus because one of those 2 can cast all 3 powers anyway

Other than the detachment requirements.

Heralds exist though, and have access to a different and markedly superior psychic discipline (at least, Treason of Tzeentch is a barrel full of fun). Paying the huge points cost for just another smiting sorc is pretty pointless.

Daemon princes actually are a good idea that I have never tried. I've always meant to find a cool tzeentch-themed daemon prince model but I dislike the khornate looking default. I may grab and use an old lord of change now that the new one is gigantic, but I've always kind of hoped someone would make a suitably cool looking 28mm genie model or something.

The terminators seem very durable in my game against them. I charged a unit of them (with an exalted sorcerer) with my unit of genestealers. I had them outnumbered more then 2-1 and I lost that battle (I was fully expecting my genestealers to win). But their bonus to the save against str 1 attacks makes them very tough!

the_scotsman wrote:

Biggest problem is that the main draw of the army gameplay wise (psychic powers) is blandy blandy boring to the max. One unit rerolls ones, one unit moves again, and a slightly different smite and that's it, and there's zero reason to include a second sorceror hq besides Ahriman/Magnus because one of those 2 can cast all 3 powers anyway.

At least you aren't stuck with Tzeentch powers. They get a smite that's nearly twice as hard to cast, never causes d6 wounds, and can turn enemy characters into spawn if you bothered to save points for a spawn for some reason. Weird how the God of Sorcery is so terrible at sorcery. Treason could be a fun gimmick power if not for the fact that you have about an 11.55% chance of pulling it off on any character of importance, otherwise every Tzeentch demon is going to be casting vanilla smite.