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Abusing the broken rules for Charges to the Max!

The rules for Charging does NOT state you need to move closer to the enemy unit you charged.
It ONLY requires that you end 1 of your models within 1" of the unit you charged.

So this means that Blobs can perform a "Whip" Maneuver.

Charge an enemy unit
Roll High
Move 1 of your models within 1" of that unit
Move models to stay in coherency, but moving towards other enemies.
Pile in/Consolidate 3" Towards the new closest enemy, if possible.
During the fight kill off the models that are in the back of the chain, or just leave combat the following turn to have the end of the chain catch up with the rest.

we house ruled against this, but RAW you can do it.

Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

 Silentz wrote:
Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

That's worst case scenario. But it can be used, as an example against my Kastellans. It's suicide to charge their flamers (I usually keep one flamer on a pair in order to dissuade charges) Charge their coder, whip it around to the Kastellans and you're now in close combat with shooty Kastellans without having to charge them.

 Silentz wrote:
Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

1 - You can if you choose to pile in right after the charge movement
2 - It's not about them, it's about moving. Obviously don't use this technique on an enemy unit that is full power and it's their best melee unit.
Use it to whiplash your army towards another unit or an objective.
3 - You pile/consolidate individual distances, meaning some units can choose not to move if they are heading in the non-preferred direction
4 - You can choose to stay outside of 1" of consolidation if you feel that a specific unit is a threat, or you can force them into melee disabling their shooting.

This is a tool, if you use it poorly it will fail you.
If you abuse it properly it will give you upto 18" of movement during the charge phase.
Even more for specific units.

Well, that's what they've announced in one of their first articles about 8th ed, when it wasn't even out yet. I don't see what's broken about it, it's just tactics, something that wasn't known in 40K 6th/7th ed .

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Well, that's what they've announced in one of their first articles about 8th ed, when it wasn't even out yet. I don't see what's broken about it, it's just tactics, something that wasn't known in 40K 6th/7th ed .

This isn't tactics, this is exploiting poorly written rules for awkward advantages.
Would love to have a laugh reading that article if you don't mind linking it.

It's not poorly written if it's intentional.

This definately works. If you start close to to an enemy unit and roll high on the charge roll, then you can use the excess charge distance for positioning. Typically by bypassing and engaging from his rear.

Using pile in for additional movement is not very reliable though, as it tends to leave you vulnerable, and it really depends on poor positioning from your opponent.

Consolidate can be very effective, but only if he forgets to put some distance between his screen and his center. On the other hand, if he puts too large a gap between units, those gaps can be exploited by characters on bikes.

I find it to be one of the most challenging and enjoyable parts of 8th edition, but as an Ork player I am not exactly an objective third party.

Nothing wrong with it, it's actually less of an abstraction than a lot of things in the game

Don't forget if you declare charges against multiple targets to do this you eat overwatch from all of them too.

 Talamare wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Well, that's what they've announced in one of their first articles about 8th ed, when it wasn't even out yet. I don't see what's broken about it, it's just tactics, something that wasn't known in 40K 6th/7th ed .

This isn't tactics, this is exploiting poorly written rules for awkward advantages.
Would love to have a laugh reading that article if you don't mind linking it.

As others said, this is intentional.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/02/new-warhammer-40000-fight-phase-may2gw-homepage-post-4/

I can see this being good for large blob units but for my Berzerker blobs I'd rather declare the charge against everything and destroy it all or smash whole heartedly into the enemy straight on.

Example for the few people who aren't fully understanding

http://imgur.com/a/9kKAy

Let's say that the Squad on the left is about 5" away, and the Squad on the top right is about 15" away.

It also doesn't need to be a Squad on the right, it can be an objective, or hell maybe you just want to speed up moving towards that direction.

 Purifier wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

That's worst case scenario. But it can be used, as an example against my Kastellans. It's suicide to charge their flamers (I usually keep one flamer on a pair in order to dissuade charges) Charge their coder, whip it around to the Kastellans and you're now in close combat with shooty Kastellans without having to charge them.

To be fair, if they can charge the tech priest with the kastellans, it means he's either a bit out of position, or you're almost out of kastellans.

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

That's worst case scenario. But it can be used, as an example against my Kastellans. It's suicide to charge their flamers (I usually keep one flamer on a pair in order to dissuade charges) Charge their coder, whip it around to the Kastellans and you're now in close combat with shooty Kastellans without having to charge them.

To be fair, if they can charge the tech priest with the kastellans, it means he's either a bit out of position, or you're almost out of kastellans.

I run 2 Kastellans, so I start the game almost out of Kastellans, and I'm not talking about a tech priest, I'm talking about a Datasmith, whose only job is to hang around your Kastellans to reprogram them.

 Purifier wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

That's worst case scenario. But it can be used, as an example against my Kastellans. It's suicide to charge their flamers (I usually keep one flamer on a pair in order to dissuade charges) Charge their coder, whip it around to the Kastellans and you're now in close combat with shooty Kastellans without having to charge them.

To be fair, if they can charge the tech priest with the kastellans, it means he's either a bit out of position, or you're almost out of kastellans.

I run 2 Kastellans, so I start the game almost out of Kastellans, and I'm not talking about a tech priest, I'm talking about a Datasmith, whose only job is to hang around your Kastellans to reprogram them.

I'm not really seeing the problem then. If you've got 2 kastellans you can prevent him from doing that by grouping the squad up properly, and if you're down one...well...it doesn't matter at that point. You're just kind of screwed.

If it wasn't something you could do to him as well, I'd be worried. But this is just how assault works in this edition.

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
Perfectly legit, perferctly non-broken. The downsides being that:

1) You can't get within 1" of an enemy you didn't announce a charge on
2) You will end up fighting the guys you did charge with far fewer models
3) You may only consolidate towards the nearest model so the ones at the back will go back and the ones at the front will go forwards.
4) If you consolidate into the unit you didn't charge, they now get to fight without reply.

It's situationally useful to get a move bonus... but is likely to leave you a bit strung out, in between 2 enemies, going into their turn.

That's worst case scenario. But it can be used, as an example against my Kastellans. It's suicide to charge their flamers (I usually keep one flamer on a pair in order to dissuade charges) Charge their coder, whip it around to the Kastellans and you're now in close combat with shooty Kastellans without having to charge them.

To be fair, if they can charge the tech priest with the kastellans, it means he's either a bit out of position, or you're almost out of kastellans.

I run 2 Kastellans, so I start the game almost out of Kastellans, and I'm not talking about a tech priest, I'm talking about a Datasmith, whose only job is to hang around your Kastellans to reprogram them.

I'm not really seeing the problem then. If you've got 2 kastellans you can prevent him from doing that by grouping the squad up properly, and if you're down one...well...it doesn't matter at that point. You're just kind of screwed.

If it wasn't something you could do to him as well, I'd be worried. But this is just how assault works in this edition.

I'm not worried, I think it's fine. I'm just saying it's a thing you can do. Sometimes people pop up behind you after you've entrenched your Kastellans, and it sucks, but they can definitely spill over a charge. Some things like bikers are ridiculously fast.

This can be sick with the pile in of 6 inch from the Hormagants.

 Talamare wrote:
Example for the few people who aren't fully understanding

http://imgur.com/a/9kKAy

Let's say that the Squad on the left is about 5" away, and the Squad on the top right is about 15" away.

It also doesn't need to be a Squad on the right, it can be an objective, or hell maybe you just want to speed up moving towards that direction.

Yea, if you rolled a 12. The practical implementation of this is pretty low. Anything not in the range of absurd is something you can plan to do.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Example for the few people who aren't fully understanding

http://imgur.com/a/9kKAy

Let's say that the Squad on the left is about 5" away, and the Squad on the top right is about 15" away.

It also doesn't need to be a Squad on the right, it can be an objective, or hell maybe you just want to speed up moving towards that direction.

Yea, if you rolled a 12. The practical implementation of this is pretty low. Anything not in the range of absurd is something you can plan to do.

Actually...

If you roll a 6
You can move 6" towards the group that is 15" away
Making them 9" now inches away.
The group that started 5" away, is now 11" away
Meaning you will move 6" using pile in and consolidate to the group that was 15" away.

So now you're only 3" away from the group that was 15" away
If you rolled an 8 you would probably be able to get within 1" of them to be able to deny them shooting next turn or potentially capture an objective.

 Talamare wrote:
Abusing the broken rules for Charges to the Max!

The rules for Charging does NOT state you need to move closer to the enemy unit you charged.
It ONLY requires that you end 1 of your models within 1" of the unit you charged.

So this means that Blobs can perform a "Whip" Maneuver.

Charge an enemy unit
Roll High
Move 1 of your models within 1" of that unit
Move models to stay in coherency, but moving towards other enemies.
Pile in/Consolidate 3" Towards the new closest enemy, if possible.
During the fight kill off the models that are in the back of the chain, or just leave combat the following turn to have the end of the chain catch up with the rest.

This is called 'tactics' and is just a good use of gane mechanics. People who don't grasp things like this are the same...people...who whine about CQC being "bad".

Houseruling it out breaks the game. Period. It's bad and you should feel bad.

I mean, this all depends on you rolling pretty high on the charge roll to make it to units outside of your initial charge. You're also charging something that can attack back and you can't do anything to it. Granted against tanks this is pretty good to shut them down, but otherwise it isn't a situation you can really "plan" for since it depends on lucky dice.

Hormogaunst have a pile in move og 6, they are dirt cheap and comes in units of 30. sounds perfect for them.

Also nice with the double move from the swarmlord.

ERJAK wrote:

This is called 'tactics' and is just a good use of gane mechanics. People who don't grasp things like this are the same...people...who whine about CQC being "bad".

Houseruling it out breaks the game. Period. It's bad and you should feel bad.

This is called 'exploiting the rules'.
You can grasp a mechanic and still acknowledge as exploit

The worst is when people call an exploit as anything but
It's like saying Placing a Bucket on someones head to steal stuff in Skyrim is called "Tactics", it's just good use of game mechanics

This is the kind of Tactics I'm talking about!

Back in 4th edition my friend was infamous for his "bendy ruler" technique, i.e: nothing in the rules said they had to move the distance in a straight line.

I would never consider this an exploit. Like Hannibal at Cannae, being intelligent about unit positioning and movement is the mark of a great field general. Especially a simple maneuver. It's this kind of lateral thinking that I really hope the game encourages, rather than people trying to get an advantage by "interpreting" the definition of words.

 Talamare wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

This is called 'tactics' and is just a good use of gane mechanics. People who don't grasp things like this are the same...people...who whine about CQC being "bad".

Houseruling it out breaks the game. Period. It's bad and you should feel bad.

This is called 'exploiting the rules'.

Except no one but you seems to feel this is exploiting the rules. The rules allow this and seem to almost encourage it. It puts a lot of strain on the charging unit and opens them up for a lot of problems if the maneuver isn't done well. With fall back, you are really just forcing two different units to fall back. If you focused on the primary target, a close combat unit would destroy them. I can see this being very useful against a vehicle army and pretty useless against lots of other armies. It could be very useful as a last ditch hail mary to get your troops onto a far off objective, however.

It's not an exploit if the game designers intended it (which has be proven to be the case)