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 Crimson wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

Blargh. Another stratagem tied to specific units.

like what specific unit.

additionally for all we know it could be 3cp for the remainder of the turn all flamers in your detachment does maximum flamer hits.

 Desubot wrote:
Iron hands: sad trombone

Little sad that half the imp fist one is pointless as no one ever takes fortifications but hot damn ignore cover.

I think that's why they let them also ignore cover. Their background screams "KILL FORTIFICATIONS!", but that really doesn't do much for them.

 pretre wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
All the tactics got officially posted:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successors/

Still missing the Lamenter's chapter tactics: You automatically lose any battle but get a moral victory for being extra loyal.

I guess someone at GW found the leak, then. They were releasing them one-per-day until completion, were halfway through, and most recently posted today.

Yes, because they totally wrote this article in few hours as a response to these leaks...

Likely had it written and pushed it forwards in the que.

You'll notice the image names in the new article have new names with random characters at the end. Something to prohibit fishing for leaks?

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40kSM_ChapterTacs5jd.jpg
vs
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/RGChapterFocusBoxout.jpg

Because regex isn't a thing

 Perfect Organism wrote:
How do you get chapter tactics? Are they just a free bonus like they were in 7th edition? If so, I hope the marine points costs have been increased to reflect them.

Or they won't be increased, and everyone else will be similarly buffed faction by faction.

Gonna copy-paste my reply from the other thread;

As a Salamander-player I'm torn on our new CT.

+ It's good. Re-rolls are handy. It's not amazing, but pretty good.
+ It benefits both shooty and fighty-units, unlike some of the other CT's who only affect certain units.

? It pushes for MSU/Combat Squads. Some may like this, but I personally like larger units.

- It's extremely boring. It's not Iron-Hands-boring, but still boring. It feels alittle lazy from GW, like they didn't quite know what to do with Salamanders.
- Almost no synergy what so ever with the signature weapons of the Salamanders; Flamers. If I could change one thing about our CT, it is so that you could, instead of rerolling the to-hit roll when shooting, reroll the D6 for the number of hits on a single flame-weapon in the unit.

All in all, I rate this new CT "meh". Was hoping for something else, but it could've been worse.
I love my flamers, but currently both Imperial Fists and Ultramarines do flamers better than Salamanders...

 Desubot wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

Blargh. Another stratagem tied to specific units.

like what specific unit.

additionally for all we know it could be 3cp for the remainder of the turn all flamers in your detachment does maximum flamer hits.

I really do think that some people are complaining to complain at this point. There's NO other explanation from troll posts like that, and someone thinking an army wide Ignore Cover is bland...

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
How do you get chapter tactics? Are they just a free bonus like they were in 7th edition? If so, I hope the marine points costs have been increased to reflect them.

Or they won't be increased, and everyone else will be similarly buffed faction by faction.

GW have said they willl (eventually) do similar things for some of the factions and sub factions. Now they have also said that there will be about 10 codexes released before Christmas - 3 of these have already been confirmed _ Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines, Death Guard

Then its likely to be Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, Blood and Dark Angels

Might be room for a couple of non marine codexes - I would think Daemons, Orks and Eldar, plus maybe Necrons might squeeze in - Unless any other Marine dexes slip in.

Anyone else likely 2018 at the earliest - So Tau, Guard, Agents, Dark Eldar.

A long time.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

Blargh. Another stratagem tied to specific units.

like what specific unit.

additionally for all we know it could be 3cp for the remainder of the turn all flamers in your detachment does maximum flamer hits.

I really do think that some people are complaining to complain at this point. There's NO other explanation from troll posts like that, and someone thinking an army wide Ignore Cover is bland...

:/ well i do think its bland in the sense that its not very trixy you dont need to put thought into. you just shoot and wammo you are doing a thing.

rather than adjusting deployment to make use of the -1

combat locking in and out to sling shot white scars closer to a character or double back for punishing gunner with smurfs.

definitely not saying ignore cover is bad. no way. its an amazing bonus.

...While having separate Chapter Tactics for each Detachment seems facially possible and legal, I'm not sure its the God Tier army creation choice that people seem to suggest it to be.

I'm not as familiar with Space Marines, but don't a vast majority of auras/abilities trigger only for fellow <Chapter> members? Wouldn't that at least something of a limiting factor in terms of cherry-picking the best of each unit?

That would have less of an effect if you don't rely on auras/abilities, or if you're making an effectively independent force (Hello, White Scars Outrider Detachment!), but while it seems facially bonkers, particularly given the strength of these Chapter Tactics, it seems like it might be more limited in practice than it facially suggests.

It will also depend heavily on what the unique Strategems do. The unique strategems might be less attractive if they fail to boost more than a third of your army at any given time...

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

also "flamer based stratagems" oh baby wonder what they do.

Blargh. Another stratagem tied to specific units.

like what specific unit.

additionally for all we know it could be 3cp for the remainder of the turn all flamers in your detachment does maximum flamer hits.

I really do think that some people are complaining to complain at this point. There's NO other explanation from troll posts like that, and someone thinking an army wide Ignore Cover is bland...

:/ well i do think its bland in the sense that its not very trixy you dont need to put thought into. you just shoot and wammo you are doing a thing.

rather than adjusting deployment to make use of the -1

combat locking in and out to sling shot white scars closer to a character or double back for punishing gunner with smurfs.

definitely not saying ignore cover is bad. no way. its an amazing bonus.

Well what the hell else do you WANT from Imperial Fists?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
How do you get chapter tactics? Are they just a free bonus like they were in 7th edition? If so, I hope the marine points costs have been increased to reflect them.

Or they won't be increased, and everyone else will be similarly buffed faction by faction.

GW have said they willl (eventually) do similar things for some of the factions and sub factions. Now they have also said that there will be about 10 codexes released before Christmas - 3 of these have already been confirmed _ Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines, Death Guard

Then its likely to be Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, Blood and Dark Angels

Might be room for a couple of non marine codexes - I would think Daemons, Orks and Eldar, plus maybe Necrons - Unless any other Marine dexes slip in.

Anyone else likely 2018 at the earliest - So Tau, Gaurd, Agents, Dark Eldar.

A long time.

I seriously hope they would at least keep to the 1 Imperium/1 Xenox release pattern in the macro and give us 5 and 5.

If we get 10 marine codexes, and 0 Xenos, in the next 5 months, I'm going to flip a freaking table.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You people were complaining that the Tactics were too generic, and when you get Strategems for this you complain it's unit specific.

I didn't complain about tactics being generic.

Frickin pick one, people.

I did pick one, I prefer them generic. There is quite a limited amount of available chapter traits, so I prefer them to be pretty flexible so they can easily be used to represent a variety of successor chapters.

In the codex introduction article they said this:

Games Workshop wrote:Previous Chapter Tactics generally focused around specific units and weapons like Salamanders with flamers or Imperial Fists with bolter-armed Tactical Squads, but this time around, they’ll be benefitting every unit and every army build; the strength of the Space Marines is diversity, after all.

While it is technically true, as the chapter tactics themselves are not tied to specific units or weapon choices, it is kinda cop out that the stratagems are.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
...While having separate Chapter Tactics for each Detachment seems facially possible and legal, I'm not sure its the God Tier army creation choice that people seem to suggest it to be.

I'm not as familiar with Space Marines, but don't a vast majority of auras/abilities trigger only for fellow <Chapter> members? Wouldn't that at least something of a limiting factor in terms of cherry-picking the best of each unit?

That would have less of an effect if you don't rely on auras/abilities, or if you're making an effectively independent force (Hello, White Scars Outrider Detachment!), but while it seems facially bonkers, particularly given the strength of these Chapter Tactics, it seems like it might be more limited in practice than it facially suggests.

It will also depend heavily on what the unique Strategems do. The unique strategems might be less attractive if they fail to boost more than a third of your army at any given time...

We don't know yet - people will be startign to work how to use and abuse them pretty quickly.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well what the hell else do you WANT from Imperial Fists?

What i want is to see the strats.

im perfectly fine with bland

its the pragmatic way. (as a fist player )

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Arandmoor wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
How do you get chapter tactics? Are they just a free bonus like they were in 7th edition? If so, I hope the marine points costs have been increased to reflect them.

Or they won't be increased, and everyone else will be similarly buffed faction by faction.

GW have said they willl (eventually) do similar things for some of the factions and sub factions. Now they have also said that there will be about 10 codexes released before Christmas - 3 of these have already been confirmed _ Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines, Death Guard

Then its likely to be Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, Blood and Dark Angels

Might be room for a couple of non marine codexes - I would think Daemons, Orks and Eldar, plus maybe Necrons - Unless any other Marine dexes slip in.

Anyone else likely 2018 at the earliest - So Tau, Gaurd, Agents, Dark Eldar.

A long time.

I seriously hope they would at least keep to the 1 Imperium/1 Xenox release pattern in the macro and give us 5 and 5.

If we get 10 marine codexes, and 0 Xenos, in the next 5 months, I'm going to flip a freaking table.

Hmm might need to get that table flip ready:

The first four Codexes are Marines/ Chaos Marines/Marines/ Chaos Marines - I would be surprised if we get more than Daemons, Orks and Eldar - Daemons is most likely as the whole focus is frimly Imeprial vs Chaos - Plus we are likely to get a Primus Marines Codex given how Stormcast Army books we got!

Sad that they did not go With Powers of Chaos Dexes.

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well what the hell else do you WANT from Imperial Fists?

What i want is to see the strats.

im perfectly fine with bland

its the pragmatic way.

Same here. Imperial Fists have never had exciting tactics, why should they start now? I would love to see the Strategies more than anything. Perhaps that is where our Tank Hunters and massive amounts of shooting will crop up. Something like Spend 2 CP = Rerolls to wound for all units with CT.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well what the hell else do you WANT from Imperial Fists?

Personally I see the unrelenting stubborn nature of the Imperial Fists to be more important defining trait than the siege mastery. It is also something that is shared by their successors, while the siege mastery necessarily isn't. Granted, I cannot from top of my head say by what sort of rule I'd like that to be represented.

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well what the hell else do you WANT from Imperial Fists?

Personally I see the unrelenting stubborn nature of the Imperial Fists to be more important defining trait than the siege mastery. It is also something that is shared by their successors, while the siege mastery necessarily isn't. Granted, I cannot from top of my head say by what sort of rule I'd like that to be represented.

Steady under fire and purposeful retreat is pretty well covered by the Ultramarines CT amusingly

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well what the hell else do you WANT from Imperial Fists?

Personally I see the unrelenting stubborn nature of the Imperial Fists to be more important defining trait than the siege mastery. It is also something that is shared by their successors, while the siege mastery necessarily isn't. Granted, I cannot from top of my head say by what sort of rule I'd like that to be represented.

Steady under fire and purposeful retreat is pretty well covered by the Ultramarines CT amusingly

Yeah. Can I trade my worthless building blow up ability for +1 Leadership?

+1 ld Or no move penelty for heavy weapons could of been it

though might be way too strong on top of ignore cover.

actually though going by GWs design philosophy it probably doesn't work.

+1 ld would of been right or some form of moral bonus in combat or something. (while still being fairly usless since for the most part if it ever came up you would of been wiped or super ineffective anyway)

Ignore cover heavy bolters are going to be great for clearing chaff. This fits Imperial Fist pretty well. Whats kinda sad is Centurions already do this and were already the best way to use heavy bolters. Sadly the CT will not effect dakka preds.

Strangely enough - Black Templar Vanguard Veterans are set to become a premium alpha strike unit. With all the storm Raven Spam - a reroll charge assault squad with the fly rule + thunderhammers will end their day in short order.


White Scars Command bikers with their 35 inch threat range are also extremely scary. Scout bikes are at 37 inch max charge range! Nothing is safe!

Salamanders will be running 10 man devs split into combat squads 2 heavies each. Reroll your miss - then reroll your failed wound. Great deficiency there. Will probably look like old school gladius formation except it will be green.

Ultras will be your standard Guiliman powerball - devs/hellblasters/scoutbikes - holding the line and putting out vicious firepower even on the retreat.

Ravengaurd will be dread spam and dev spam.

It's very possible competitive will see a lot of alliances between chapters because some units are just clearly better options for certain chapters.

 Desubot wrote:
+1 ld Or no move penelty for heavy weapons could of been it

though might be way too strong on top of ignore cover.

actually though going by GWs design philosophy it probably doesn't work.

+1 ld would of been right or some form of moral bonus in combat or something. (while still being fairly usless since for the most part if it ever came up you would of been wiped or super ineffective anyway)

Imperial Fists are the most stubborn Space Marines in existence(the Excoriators have turned it into an attorney). The entire reason the Iron Cage was so bad was because they refused to back down. +1 Ld would have been perfect.

Looking at our relics, I really hope that we get something brand new (Imperial Fists at least, Crimson Fists likely will get something new). Two of the relics are literally overridden by the new chapter tactics (and really, a basic bolt pistol that does two wounds...no). One is Librarian only. One is Chaplain only. One is standard bearer only.

Man, I forgot how awful our relics were (outside the Bones of Osrak)...

 Ratius wrote:
Ally a bunch of all these chapter tactic units together into a coherent force and you'd have a key for every lock.....
#scary

Have units with the [imperial], [Chaos] or [Aeldari] keywords not been able to ally with each other and be used to cover each other's weaknesses until chapter tactics came along?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
...While having separate Chapter Tactics for each Detachment seems facially possible and legal, I'm not sure its the God Tier army creation choice that people seem to suggest it to be.

It isn't. No one is interested in paying to have like 4 HQ's in their army just to mix and match chapter tactics.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
+1 ld Or no move penelty for heavy weapons could of been it

though might be way too strong on top of ignore cover.

actually though going by GWs design philosophy it probably doesn't work.

+1 ld would of been right or some form of moral bonus in combat or something. (while still being fairly usless since for the most part if it ever came up you would of been wiped or super ineffective anyway)

Imperial Fists are the most stubborn Space Marines in existence(the Excoriators have turned it into an attorney). The entire reason the Iron Cage was so bad was because they refused to back down. +1 Ld would have been perfect.

Looking at our relics, I really hope that we get something brand new (Imperial Fists at least, Crimson Fists likely will get something new). Two of the relics are literally overridden by the new chapter tactics (and really, a basic bolt pistol that does two wounds...no). One is Librarian only. One is Chaplain only. One is standard bearer only.

Man, I forgot how awful our relics were (outside the Bones of Osrak)...

Well I'm not sure how the current relics would be handled as they mostly involve cover, which they ignore altogether now.

Still I didn't think the Pistol was THAT bad, but since Pistols were bad last edition it was bound to be bad. 5 points, well, you get what you pay for.

Are they serious with Raven Guard?

That's broken

GG

 Talamare wrote:
Are they serious with Raven Guard?

That's broken

GG

It really isn't. Just get close to them. The game gives you the tools for it.
If its fine fighting Tau, who have a permanent hit modifier on some of their units no matter the distance, and flyers, then its fine with Raven Guard.

Painted my Marine bike list in Red since everyone has a red colored Successor Chapter. I've always just run them as WS but I might consider trying out some of the other ones. Red Scars are the Rampagers. Red UM are the Genesis Chapter, and red IH are the Red Talons.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Painted my Marine bike list in Red since everyone has a red colored Successor Chapter. I've always just run them as WS but I might consider trying out some of the other ones. Red Scars are the Rampagers. Red UM are the Genesis Chapter, and red IH are the Red Talons.

Oh noes, that makes you TFG and a cheater! </sarcasm>

Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

Edit - Misread it, White Scar can charge after Falling Back. Not Charge after Advancing.

 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

You have to use CP to get the advance and charge for WS.