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 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

White scars dont get to advance and charge by default, they probably need to spend CP for it.

Falling back and being able to charge again is both pretty strong and fluffy though.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Are they serious with Raven Guard?

That's broken

GG

It really isn't. Just get close to them. The game gives you the tools for it.
If its fine fighting Tau, who have a permanent hit modifier on some of their units no matter the distance, and flyers, then its fine with Raven Guard.

1 Guy has a permanent hit modifier
Flyers are a narrow amount of models, and are considered fairly OP at moment. So it's not really "fine" on them either.
As well as Raven Guard Flyers will give a -2

Not even list is meant to get close to the enemy. Doing so is basically losing as well.
The game gives some armies/lists the tools to for it. Unless you're saying everyone should play armies who are tanky, great at melee, and great at shooting... Space Marines.

 Talamare wrote:
As well as Raven Guard Flyers will give a -2

You know how I know you didn't read the thread?

CT only affect Infantry, Bikes and Dreads.

 Talamare wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Are they serious with Raven Guard?

That's broken

GG

It really isn't. Just get close to them. The game gives you the tools for it.
If its fine fighting Tau, who have a permanent hit modifier on some of their units no matter the distance, and flyers, then its fine with Raven Guard.

1 Guy has a permanent hit modifier
Flyers are a narrow amount of models, and are considered fairly OP at moment. So it's not really "fine" on them either.
As well as Raven Guard Flyers will give a -2

Not even list is meant to get close to the enemy. Doing so is basically losing as well.
The game gives some armies/lists the tools to for it. Unless you're saying everyone should play armies who are tanky, great at melee, and great at shooting... Space Marines.

Advised you read the rules first, chapter tactics only affect Infantry, bikes and dreads

 Talamare wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Are they serious with Raven Guard?

That's broken

GG

It really isn't. Just get close to them. The game gives you the tools for it.
If its fine fighting Tau, who have a permanent hit modifier on some of their units no matter the distance, and flyers, then its fine with Raven Guard.

1 Guy has a permanent hit modifier
Flyers are a narrow amount of models, and are considered fairly OP at moment. So it's not really "fine" on them either.
As well as Raven Guard Flyers will give a -2

Not even list is meant to get close to the enemy. Doing so is basically losing as well.
The game gives some armies/lists the tools to for it. Unless you're saying everyone should play armies who are tanky, great at melee, and great at shooting... Space Marines.

Pretty sure flyers can't benefit from Chapter Tactics, just infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts.
TIL Necrons, Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau and Nids are Space Marines. I'm fairly certain they all have the tools to get up close and circumvent the -1 hit modifier. Who said anything about charging them? Once you get within 12" you can unload everything onto them with no penalties. Kind of like what Scourges, Deathmarks, Monoliths and Battlesuits can do.

GAdvance wrote:
Advised you read the rules first, chapter tactics only affect Infantry, bikes and dreads

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

Where is that rule, I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I don't see it on this page.

 Talamare wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
Advised you read the rules first, chapter tactics only affect Infantry, bikes and dreads

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

Where is that rule, I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I don't see it on this page.

check the smurf preview one

 Desubot wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
Advised you read the rules first, chapter tactics only affect Infantry, bikes and dreads

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

Where is that rule, I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I don't see it on this page.

check the smurf preview one

Also, the last 4 pages of this thread:

"In game, the Ultramarines are one of the most tactically rewarding chapters, combining a huge range of Special Characters with the ability to fall back and shoot universally – like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts."
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

 Talamare wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
Advised you read the rules first, chapter tactics only affect Infantry, bikes and dreads

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

Where is that rule, I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I don't see it on this page.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts.

 pretre wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
Advised you read the rules first, chapter tactics only affect Infantry, bikes and dreads

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

Where is that rule, I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I don't see it on this page.

check the smurf preview one

Also, the last 4 pages of this thread:

"In game, the Ultramarines are one of the most tactically rewarding chapters, combining a huge range of Special Characters with the ability to fall back and shoot universally – like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts."
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

Then is that a conclusive list, or just a small list of the things it can potentially affect.

If it was just a small list, it wouldn't specify those units and then say that all chapter tactics are like that.

 Talamare wrote:

Then is that a conclusive list, or just a small list of the things it can potentially affect.

The information we have now is that it is conclusive.

 pretre wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

You have to use CP to get the advance and charge for WS.

And we don't know what the BT get until they have their chapter focus.

 JJ wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

You have to use CP to get the advance and charge for WS.

And we don't know what the BT get until they have their chapter focus.

Yes we do, it was leaked. Reroll charges. This is the thread with it.

Edit: I suspect you might have meant what strategems now that I think about it.

 JJ wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

You have to use CP to get the advance and charge for WS.

And we don't know what the BT get until they have their chapter focus.

I hope they get a stratagem that allows them to move forward a variable distance whenever they take casualties.
I remember them having that in 4th ed, and it was certainly a unique little rule they had.

The Stratagems may be a big deal.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 JJ wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

You have to use CP to get the advance and charge for WS.

And we don't know what the BT get until they have their chapter focus.

I hope they get a stratagem that allows them to move forward a variable distance whenever they take casualties.
I remember them having that in 4th ed, and it was certainly a unique little rule they had.

That should have been their Chapter Tactic.

 pretre wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

Then is that a conclusive list, or just a small list of the things it can potentially affect.

The information we have now is that it is conclusive.

Is there a source for its conclusivity other than the quoted text?

Because Talamare's interpretation of "non-exhaustive list" is a reasonable interpretation of the language presented.

(I think the intention is towards it being an exclusive list, but I'm not seeing conclusive language in the Ultramarine article text provided)

Iron Hands Venerable Dreadnoughts ignore any wound 33% of the time. That isn't bad. Glad I have a bunch of these.

My hunch is that the Iron Hands Stratagem will have something to do with healing wounds on units with the Chapter Tactic.

 Purifier wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 JJ wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Black Templar vs White Scar in an Assault List...

White Scar - d6+2" + 2d6" effective charges
Black Templar - reroll 2d6"

I get that Black Templar will have slightly more option for a combined arms army, but White Scar will just be advantaged again when it comes to Assault Guns.

You have to use CP to get the advance and charge for WS.

And we don't know what the BT get until they have their chapter focus.

I hope they get a stratagem that allows them to move forward a variable distance whenever they take casualties.
I remember them having that in 4th ed, and it was certainly a unique little rule they had.

That should have been their Chapter Tactic.

Yeah, I'm actually really surprised they didn't get that.
I guess it's because it would be kind of awkward to write the rule for the dreadnaughts, as if a dreadnaught takes a casualty, well then there's nothing left in the unit to advance, but still.
I guess it might have been "whenever the unit takes a wound", but then you have a case where if a bunch of reivers (2W models) take a wound they get a free move at full model strength.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yeah, I'm actually really surprised they didn't get that.
I guess it's because it would be kind of awkward to write the rule for the dreadnaughts, as if a dreadnaught takes a casualty, well then there's nothing left in the unit to advance, but still.
I guess it might have been "whenever the unit takes a wound", but then you have a case where if a bunch of reivers (2W models) take a wound they get a free move at full model strength.

"2 inches per wound, up to 6 inches max" or whatever.

Also, if people find these CT bland, there is still the Strategems an Relics that will add more flavoring

Median Trace wrote:
Iron Hands Venerable Dreadnoughts ignore any wound 33% of the time. That isn't bad. Glad I have a bunch of these.

My hunch is that the Iron Hands Stratagem will have something to do with healing wounds on units with the Chapter Tactic.

It's actually less than 33%
1/6 of wounds saved with the venerable roll.
1/6 of 5/6 wounds saved with the CT roll.

So 11/36 or 30.5%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Also, if people find these CT bland, there is still the Strategems an Relics that will add more flavoring

I'm willing to bet BT get a stratagem that says 'pay 2CP after taking any unsaved wounds and you may immediately take a move action.' or something similar.

Salamanders player here. Our CT seems quite potent if... well. Kind of bland, actually. I was expecting at least some bonus to our heat weapons. But, hey, it'll make the plasma I like to load up on more viable.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Salamanders player here. Our CT seems quite potent if... well. Kind of bland, actually. I was expecting at least some bonus to our heat weapons. But, hey, it'll make the plasma I like to load up on more viable.

Dont break those flamers off yet

it was said in the successor opinion piece that a flamer based stratagem exists.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Salamanders player here. Our CT seems quite potent if... well. Kind of bland, actually. I was expecting at least some bonus to our heat weapons. But, hey, it'll make the plasma I like to load up on more viable.

That would probably be in the form of a stratagem.
It seems that CT = general buffs that affect most units, no matter their loadout
Stratagems = specific buffs that concern a unit or weapon type.

trying to figure out what CTs I'll likely use for my Blood Ravens (assuming FW doesn't release BR chapter tactics with Gabriel Angelos.. and even then after the indices I'm not sure I trust FW to write good rules on that score)

I disagree with the idea of using Imperial Fist tactics in the article, to be blunt it doesn't seem like the Blood Ravens AT ALL, whom are more well known for meticulas planning with the aid of Libarian divinations etc. I'm thinking more Raven Guard or Ultramarines as both chapters strtike me as if they're going to be among the better to represent a force that has planned for all contingencies.


on another note I actually called it on the Iron Hands tactics

BrianDavion wrote:
trying to figure out what CTs I'll likely use for my Blood Ravens

Thousand suns?

you could do iron hands "lucky" 6+ FNP

or sally since they probably have a massive collection of sally master crafted weapons.

 Desubot wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Salamanders player here. Our CT seems quite potent if... well. Kind of bland, actually. I was expecting at least some bonus to our heat weapons. But, hey, it'll make the plasma I like to load up on more viable.

Dont break those flamers off yet

it was said in the successor opinion piece that a flamer based stratagem exists.

That's why I magnetize most of my options. And I'd never get rid of all my flamers.

Strategems, eh? Sounds interesting. I can't wait to get my hands on the Codex!

 Desubot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
trying to figure out what CTs I'll likely use for my Blood Ravens

Thousand suns?

you could do iron hands "lucky" 6+ FNP

or sally since they probably have a massive collection of sally master crafted weapons.

just think every time I re-rolled I could state "it was a gift!" Sallies was tempting but it sounds like they use flamer bases stratigiums which wouldn't be that great for me with my army as stands (I'm not sure I HAVE any flamers
Iron Hands might work, the Blood Ravens seem to cheat death in every dawn of war game. ANY OTHER chapter would be dead having taken the kinda beatings they have.