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BrianDavion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

PoorGravitasHandling wrote:
Why would someone not take Salamanders at this point. Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

Agreed. Since none of these Chapters have unit restrictions there is zero downside to being Salamanders.

what if the salamnaders relic and stratigium suck?

Sounds like an armor that increases your hqs T

Flamer strat has to be some flavor of maximize number of hits because going by the last focus they mention vulken "further" improves them and all he does now is rerolls to hit and wound for melta flamers.

question is do we only get one strat?

If there's only 1 relic per chapter, I'm gonna be very dissapointed.

 MinscS2 wrote:
If there's only 1 relic per chapter, I'm gonna be very dissapointed.

Fairly sure it wont be 1 relic, 1 strat. though i wonder how they are going to handle "relics" in the sense of models and war gear.

i hope we get some cool character upgrade plastic sprue.

 Desubot wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
If there's only 1 relic per chapter, I'm gonna be very dissapointed.

Fairly sure it wont be 1 relic, 1 strat. though i wonder how they are going to handle "relics" in the sense of models and war gear.

i hope we get some cool character upgrade plastic sprue.

They say here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/16/codex-space-marines-your-first-lookgw-homepage-post-1/ that there will be one stratagem for each Chapter, with 26 total including general stratagems and unit-specific ones. They're explicit that there is only 1 exclusive Warlord trait per Chapter, with 14 total. The text suggests that the Crimson Fists have only one Relic, and I suspect that this is typical.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
If there's only 1 relic per chapter, I'm gonna be very dissapointed.

Fairly sure it wont be 1 relic, 1 strat. though i wonder how they are going to handle "relics" in the sense of models and war gear.

i hope we get some cool character upgrade plastic sprue.

They say here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/16/codex-space-marines-your-first-lookgw-homepage-post-1/ that there will be one stratagem for each Chapter, with 26 total including general stratagems and unit-specific ones. They're explicit that there is only 1 exclusive Warlord trait per Chapter, with 14 total. The text suggests that the Crimson Fists have only one Relic, and I suspect that this is typical.

oo i missed that. kinda bumber, maybe not.

still wonder how they are going to do these relics. if its going to just be a you guys convert it thing or if they will release a relic pack.

Aw I hope it isn't just one relic per Chapter.

Hopefully we get the generic relics back, though people crying about The Shield Eternal we might not.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Aw I hope it isn't just one relic per Chapter.

Hopefully we get the generic relics back, though people crying about The Shield Eternal we might not.

Yeah not sure how to feel about it

relics are going to be probably exclusive to HQs

more than likely the standard captain, chap, lib, tech marine maybe

but then character beat sticks dont happen that often in 8th for SM besides maybe the chaplain

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Aw I hope it isn't just one relic per Chapter.

Hopefully we get the generic relics back, though people crying about The Shield Eternal we might not.

Yeah not sure how to feel about it

relics are going to be probably exclusive to HQs

more than likely the standard captain, chap, lib, tech marine maybe

but then character beat sticks dont happen that often in 8th for SM besides maybe the chaplain

They've ways been exclusive to HQ barring super specific examples.

Could have sworn I read somewhere that there were going to be a set of like 6 warlord traits that were just general SM ones, then each Chapter had a single special trait and relic that you could only access through them. Not sure where I read that though, I think it was in one of these teasers but I don't know which.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

They've ways been exclusive to HQ barring super specific examples.

Sorry my train of thought was heading towards the "Characters dont really run around doing old death star things anymore and so relics are kinda meh imho" but made a stop down derpville

 Purifier wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Speaking of swapping out CT's, anyone I find playing a BT army with another CT than the BT one, at minimum I'll be rolling my eyes and wondering why they play 40k in the first darn place. If you're not into the fluff, you're not into the one good aspect of the 40k game. It's not a good game. It can be fun, but you need some story to make it fun.

Yeah, well, that's just like.... your opinion, man.

Speaking as a BT player, yes it is my, like, opinion... man.

But you've got to ask yourself. In a wargame as blatantly unbalanced and poorly constructed as 40k, if you're not into the fluff, why are you even here?

the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

 Mr Morden wrote:
the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

Two thumbs down if this is true. I expected at least some generic relics for all chapters, in addition to the (one) chapter relic.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

Two thumbs down if this is true. I expected at least some generic relics for all chapters, in addition to the (one) chapter relic.

One unique relic per chapter is fine IF there are also bunch of generic relics.

 Selym wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Speaking of swapping out CT's, anyone I find playing a BT army with another CT than the BT one, at minimum I'll be rolling my eyes and wondering why they play 40k in the first darn place. If you're not into the fluff, you're not into the one good aspect of the 40k game. It's not a good game. It can be fun, but you need some story to make it fun.

Yeah, well, that's just like.... your opinion, man.

Speaking as a BT player, yes it is my, like, opinion... man.

But you've got to ask yourself. In a wargame as blatantly unbalanced and poorly constructed as 40k, if you're not into the fluff, why are you even here?

Whoooooosh

 Crimson wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

Two thumbs down if this is true. I expected at least some generic relics for all chapters, in addition to the (one) chapter relic.

One unique relic per chapter is fine IF there are also bunch of generic relics.

Thats basically that they have said, no? Is gonna be a a list of generic warlord traits and relicts and then the Chapter Specific ones. The same with Stratagems. I assume you are gonna be able to pick the generic ones or the specific one of your Chapter if you want. Probably the specific ones will be more powerfull for the fact of being specific and limited.

To be constructive here is how the Iron Hands CT should have worked:

Roll a dice each time an Iron Hands model loses a wound. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the model does not lose a wound. If an Iron Hands model or unit with this tactic (infantry, bikes, and dreads only) is within 6 inches of an Iron Hands model or unit with Terminator Armor; then the Iron Hands model or unit with this tactic adds 1 inch to movement, adds 1 to hit rolls with heavy weapons, and ignores a wound on a 5 or 6.

Maybe even have the IH take a Leadership penalty if they are within 6 inches of the Terminator model or unit dying as well (unit portion only applies if the entire unit is removed) for like a turn.

This would help recreate the feel of Terminator Sergeants and promote playing to the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

Two thumbs down if this is true. I expected at least some generic relics for all chapters, in addition to the (one) chapter relic.

One unique relic per chapter is fine IF there are also bunch of generic relics.

Thats basically that they have said, no? Is gonna be a a list of generic warlord traits and relicts and then the Chapter Specific ones. The same with Stratagems. I assume you are gonna be able to pick the generic ones or the specific one of your Chapter if you want. Probably the specific ones will be more powerfull for the fact of being specific and limited.

I am not holding out hope that the Iron Hands ones will be any good.

 Crimson wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

Two thumbs down if this is true. I expected at least some generic relics for all chapters, in addition to the (one) chapter relic.

One unique relic per chapter is fine IF there are also bunch of generic relics.

Have they mentioned generic Relics? I thought it was just one per Chapter?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
the word from GW seems to suggest one relic per Chapter.

Two thumbs down if this is true. I expected at least some generic relics for all chapters, in addition to the (one) chapter relic.

One unique relic per chapter is fine IF there are also bunch of generic relics.

Have they mentioned generic Relics? I thought it was just one per Chapter?

they're taking a look at what else is being done and extrapolating a "best case scenerio"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NorseSig wrote:
To be constructive here is how the Iron Hands CT should have worked:

Roll a dice each time an Iron Hands model loses a wound. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the model does not lose a wound. If an Iron Hands model or unit with this tactic (infantry, bikes, and dreads only) is within 6 inches of an Iron Hands model or unit with Terminator Armor; then the Iron Hands model or unit with this tactic adds 1 inch to movement, adds 1 to hit rolls with heavy weapons, and ignores a wound on a 5 or 6.

Maybe even have the IH take a Leadership penalty if they are within 6 inches of the Terminator model or unit dying as well (unit portion only applies if the entire unit is removed) for like a turn.

This would help recreate the feel of Terminator Sergeants and promote playing to the fluff.
.

so in other words Iron Hands should be overpowered?

also the terminator set up's a bad one as it forces dependance on a certain type of unit, something that is distinctly against the design approuch they are taking for CTs

 Galas wrote:


Thats basically that they have said, no? Is gonna be a a list of generic warlord traits and relicts and then the Chapter Specific ones. The same with Stratagems. I assume you are gonna be able to pick the generic ones or the specific one of your Chapter if you want. Probably the specific ones will be more powerfull for the fact of being specific and limited.

I remember generic warlord traits and stratagems being mentioned, but not relics.

I admit I'm a little sad to watch the development of the Chapter tactics. It really is a lot of bloat that is making me consider back pedaling and not buying into 8th.

 NorseSig wrote:
To be constructive here is how the Iron Hands CT should have worked:

Roll a dice each time an Iron Hands model loses a wound. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the model does not lose a wound. If an Iron Hands model or unit with this tactic (infantry, bikes, and dreads only) is within 6 inches of an Iron Hands model or unit with Terminator Armor; then the Iron Hands model or unit with this tactic adds 1 inch to movement, adds 1 to hit rolls with heavy weapons, and ignores a wound on a 5 or 6.

Maybe even have the IH take a Leadership penalty if they are within 6 inches of the Terminator model or unit dying as well (unit portion only applies if the entire unit is removed) for like a turn.

This would help recreate the feel of Terminator Sergeants and promote playing to the fluff.

Good lord.

 Elbows wrote:
I admit I'm a little sad to watch the development of the Chapter tactics. It really is a lot of bloat that is making me consider back pedaling and not buying into 8th.

How is this bloat? It's a codex that replaces the current vanilla marine entries, with a few rules and relics and Strategems.

Is anything more than Index considered bloat to you?

Generally? Yes. The "few rules and relics" etc. are pretty potent and once again begin to unravel the basic core rules of the game. That's not a good direction to head - I suspect you'll be seeing the same silliness that made 7th so god awful. I just think it's a crap direction to take the game - admittedly not surprising.

 Elbows wrote:
I admit I'm a little sad to watch the development of the Chapter tactics. It really is a lot of bloat that is making me consider back pedaling and not buying into 8th.

As a new player I really like this, it felt a little bland after getting my Primaris Marines. Now I can get the Codex and build an army around a chapter that fits my playstyle and be a little different to most other Space Marine players around. So far it has been, we all play basically the same units with a character that largely does the same thing with a different face. I also hope that the other chapters can now compete with Ultramarines and R Gilliman was basically the deciding factor in most games I have played so far (against other Space Marines).

so in other words Iron Hands should be overpowered?

also the terminator set up's a bad one as it forces dependance on a certain type of unit, something that is distinctly against the design approuch they are taking for CTs

It was a first thought. I believe some call it brainstorming. Honestly, it would be nice to be overpowered for a change. Instead of constantly having things taken away. I would even settle for a 5+ or something that somehow makes it so the IH CT can be built around.

Good lord.

Very descriptive.

 Elbows wrote:
Generally? Yes. The "few rules and relics" etc. are pretty potent and once again begin to unravel the basic core rules of the game. That's not a good direction to head - I suspect you'll be seeing the same silliness that made 7th so god awful. I just think it's a crap direction to take the game - admittedly not surprising.

You want the list of issues that were wrong with 7th? It had NOTHING to do with Chapter Tactics or relics. It was:
1. Characters being able to buff units not involved with their army
2. Scatterbikes and Wraithknights
3. Gladius
4. ACTUAL bloat, with several books needing to be bought if you played select armies (being both Traitors and Loyalist Scum as the worst offenders)
5. AP being a terrible all-or-nothing system
6. Riptide silliness
7. The ID mechanic

I could probably go on, but Relics and Rules weren't the issue. At all.

 Crimson wrote:

 Galas wrote:


Thats basically that they have said, no? Is gonna be a a list of generic warlord traits and relicts and then the Chapter Specific ones. The same with Stratagems. I assume you are gonna be able to pick the generic ones or the specific one of your Chapter if you want. Probably the specific ones will be more powerfull for the fact of being specific and limited.

I remember generic warlord traits and stratagems being mentioned, but not relics.

I would be surprised if there aren't generic relics, but like you said, the lack of mention makes it seem like that will be the case. Screwing over Successor Chapters again, I see. Though it seems more like the two Successor Chapters with relics are the exception to the Successor just using the parent chapter relic.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I would be surprised if there aren't generic relics, but like you said, the lack of mention makes it seem like that will be the case. Screwing over Successor Chapters again, I see. Though it seems more like the two Successor Chapters with relics are the exception to the Successor just using the parent chapter relic.

It would totally such if there wouldn't be generic relics. There really wouldn't be a choice, the only choice you would have would be whether to take the relic or not. Super lame.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I would be surprised if there aren't generic relics, but like you said, the lack of mention makes it seem like that will be the case. Screwing over Successor Chapters again, I see. Though it seems more like the two Successor Chapters with relics are the exception to the Successor just using the parent chapter relic.

It would totally such if there wouldn't be generic relics. There really wouldn't be a choice, the only choice you would have would be whether to take the relic or not. Super lame.

Eh, given we know there are generic stratagems and warlord traits it seems likely., I wouldn't get pessimistic.