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 Bookwrack wrote:
As with all things, it's a little more complicated than that.

The people over 60 are the ones who were in the middle/late segment of their prime earning years at the height of the Japanese economic bubble, and got the most time to reap the rewards of the mid-late 20th century economy.

That's what hording is

"Hoarding" implies some kind of nefarious activity. As if elderly people in retirement are otherwise supposed to be giving the money they earned away to young working people.

"Grandma, you're falling behind on your mandated annual expenditures to your grandkids!"

 sebster wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
As with all things, it's a little more complicated than that.

The people over 60 are the ones who were in the middle/late segment of their prime earning years at the height of the Japanese economic bubble, and got the most time to reap the rewards of the mid-late 20th century economy.

That's what hording is

No.

Hoarding is actively seeking out and retaining a commodity, not 'had the best opportunities presented to them to make money, and thus ended up with most of it.'

 gorgon wrote:
"Hoarding" implies some kind of nefarious activity. As if elderly people in retirement are otherwise supposed to be giving the money they earned away to young working people.

Lots of grandparents help their children and grandchildren with all kinds of bits of money, from modest or generous gifts to paying the school fees or paying deposits on house purchases, and so on.

You can't take it with you, after all.

At the end of the day, the children will inherit, unless you leave your fortune to Battersea Dogs Home (like one of my great-aunts did.)

I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them. Hearing that someone of such a young age actually worries that they, by simply being born in a specific span of years, are being blamed for ruining an industry, country or the future because they are lazy, worthless or otherwise is just, odd to me.

Who really cares? Sticks and Stones and all that, or are the words a little too close to the truth not to hurt?

It's your story, tell it however you like...

hotsauceman1 wrote:The contract work is already a thing.
Its called temping.

Or the gig economy (Uber and so on).

Bookwrack wrote:Japan also has generally been a slow adopter of easy access credit and credit card culture, preferring to stay more cash-based longer, and encouraged a greater saving culture than in the west. Coupled the above average life expectancy over there, that means older generally had accumulated a more noteable portion of wealth.

Germany is rather similar to Japan in that regard. A slightly different debit card/account system (more secure, if I remember correctly) made credit cards not as useful as in the US and people don't want to give up untraceable cash as easily as in the US.

dracpanzer wrote:I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them. Hearing that someone of such a young age actually worries that they, by simply being born in a specific span of years, are being blamed for ruining an industry, country or the future because they are lazy, worthless or otherwise is just, odd to me.

I see it rather the other way around. It's the older generations that are heaping a lot attention on the genX to millenials. On the one hand millenials are apparently "killing" all kinds of industries because they don't buy diamonds, big cars, or whatever else the next article throws up and on the other hand it was literary the baby boomers who invented participation trophies for themselves. Sure they gave those to their kids but they were not really for the kids who couldn't care less who was better, won, or got a trophy. The kids just played the sports while the parents were the ones on the sidelines screaming like lunatics. It was the parents who couldn't stand the thought that their precious little snowflake wasn't special enough that they needed to create something that they could give their kids to placate their own egos.

The real crime genx to millienials have committed is that they have seen rather early that they won't be able to have the same life as boomers and they have adjusted to that, and that's hurting the boomers' pension portfolio and they can't stand it.

I'd love to disagree with Mario but it's a fairly strong argument.

Though I'd probably add in, "most boomers don't give a monkeys any more than the various previous older generations complained about younger ones."

what I think is a change though is the evolving mass media meaning that the clickbait, "damn millennials" articles are just instant moneyspinners.

 dracpanzer wrote:
I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them. Hearing that someone of such a young age actually worries that they, by simply being born in a specific span of years, are being blamed for ruining an industry, country or the future because they are lazy, worthless or otherwise is just, odd to me.

Who really cares? Sticks and Stones and all that, or are the words a little too close to the truth not to hurt?

It's your story, tell it however you like...

'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attention'.

 gorgon wrote:
"Hoarding" implies some kind of nefarious activity. As if elderly people in retirement are otherwise supposed to be giving the money they earned away to young working people.

 Bookwrack wrote:
No.

Hoarding is actively seeking out and retaining a commodity, not 'had the best opportunities presented to them to make money, and thus ended up with most of it.'

Oh for feth's sake. First up, here's a definition for you - 'to accumulate for preservation, future use etc'. Nothing inherently nefarious, nor does it involve an active plot, it is merely the act of accumulation.

Yes, hoarding often includes a negative connotation, but in cases where such a connotation would be stupid, such as implying a nefarious act upon an entire generation of people, it is only sensible for the reader to assume the connotation doesn't apply in this case and read the world in a sensible context.

nfe wrote:


'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attanetion'.

But for rizzle, is a little love and attention to much to ask? After all we're all just over grown babies after 1980

 LordofHats wrote:

nfe wrote:


'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attanetion'.

But for rizzle, is a little love and attention to much to ask? After all we're all just over grown babies after 1980

I did some great keyboard-mashing at the end there, apparently.

It's tough love, innit? We just need to buckle down like our mums and dads. I mean, my mum and dad bought a house pretty much the day the got married (at 26) and, now at 33, me and my wife earn much the same as them (adjusted for inflation) in a cheaper area and can't hope to do the same, but you know, two generations have only being voting against their childrens' interests to instill a good wholesome protestant work ethic.

I feel like Episode 46 of Code Geass contains the most powerful summation of the sentiment; "Watching from afar. Looking out only for yourselves and your wishes. Forcing on us what you thought right. You, our parents, abandoned us." Right in the feelz man. Right up there with that time in season one when the pink haired chick got shot and we had to watch a full 10 minute scene of her dying Right in the feelz

Well, I think we have to do a little finger-pointing at the parents if their kids who were given everything as children have grown up to think that it's the responsibility of older generations to also share their wealth with them in adulthood.

 gorgon wrote:
Well, I think we have to do a little finger-pointing at the parents if their kids who were given everything as children have grown up to think that it's the responsibility of older generations to also share their wealth with them in adulthood.

Nobody is obligated to share their wealth with their kids, but if you vote to remove opportunities that you enjoyed from your children's generation you're a dill weed. If you then go on to complain that they're not achieving the things that those opportunities allowed you to do at the same point in their lives just because they're lazy, you're a bigger dill weed.

nfe wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Well, I think we have to do a little finger-pointing at the parents if their kids who were given everything as children have grown up to think that it's the responsibility of older generations to also share their wealth with them in adulthood.

Nobody is obligated to share their wealth with their kids, but if you vote to remove opportunities that you enjoyed from your children's generation you're a dill weed. If you then go on to complain that they're not achieving the things that those opportunities allowed you to do at the same point in their lives just because they're lazy, you're a bigger dill weed.

I'd like to know exactly what dastardly votes were cast with the notion of keeping Millennials down. If you're talking about free higher ed, that never existed in the U.S., and I have no understanding of exactly why things might have changed for you there. I hazard to guess that it was expensive and bound to get more expensive given the size of the Millennial generation.

But is it possible that just because another generation received some benefit or happened to reach working age in a better economy, it's not every generation's God-given right to the same? I find it troubling that these conversations seem to inevitably loop back to what Millennials are owed. Is it a possibility that everything isn't about Millennials?

 gorgon wrote:

nfe wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Well, I think we have to do a little finger-pointing at the parents if their kids who were given everything as children have grown up to think that it's the responsibility of older generations to also share their wealth with them in adulthood.

Nobody is obligated to share their wealth with their kids, but if you vote to remove opportunities that you enjoyed from your children's generation you're a dill weed. If you then go on to complain that they're not achieving the things that those opportunities allowed you to do at the same point in their lives just because they're lazy, you're a bigger dill weed.

I'd like to know exactly what dastardly votes were cast with the notion of keeping Millennials down. If you're talking about free higher ed, that never existed in the U.S., and I have no understanding of exactly why things might have changed for you there. I hazard to guess that it was expensive and bound to get more expensive given the size of the Millennial generation.

But is it possible that just because another generation received some benefit or happened to reach working age in a better economy, it's not every generation's God-given right to the same? I find it troubling that these conversations seem to inevitably loop back to what Millennials are owed. Is it a possibility that everything isn't about Millennials?

Obviously I'm speaking from a UK perspective because I'm British - and the OP is written from a UK perspective, too.

That said, you're reading a lot into posts that aren't written. It seems like a pretty hefty dose of confirmation bias. I didn't claim anyone voted specifically to keep anyone else down. Rather that people voted to remove particular opportunities from others after they'd reaped the benefits. More a case of 'I'm alright, Jack' than 'feth you, Jack'. More 'well, it's not going to hurt me if party X treble tuition fees' than 'can't wait till these trebled tuition fees bury kids in debt!'. Millennials don't think they're Cedric Sneer with a dad explicitly trying to ruin their lives. They just wish they'd stop getting told that they're lazy, preening snowflakes with 30-second attention spans because they can't buy buy a suburban three-bed by 30.

Similarly, I (nor anyone else in the thread that I recall) made no claims regarding people having a right to opportunities. The frequent complaint is regarding people who were particularly lucky castigating subsequent generations for struggling, and then claiming that any suggestion that said struggle is related to reduced opportunities is indicative of laziness and a demand to be handed the world on a plate.

Here's how the conversation essentially runs:

I was married with two kids and owned my own home at 26, why can't you?
I don't earn enough. The housing market is such that homes are very expensive and wages are low.
Well you should get better job.
I'd love to, I'm applying for several every month, but jobs are thin on the ground and demand far outstrips supply, so, as I say, wages are generally low. I can't afford to go to university to improve my chances, either.
I worked a part time job to fund university. Why can't you?
A part time job was sufficient to fund you through university. I couldn't do it even if I could keep my full time job.
You just want the world handed to you.

nfe wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them. Hearing that someone of such a young age actually worries that they, by simply being born in a specific span of years, are being blamed for ruining an industry, country or the future because they are lazy, worthless or otherwise is just, odd to me.

Who really cares? Sticks and Stones and all that, or are the words a little too close to the truth not to hurt?

It's your story, tell it however you like...

'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attention'.

Must be a UK thing, because I never had a free anything at college. Feeling entitled to something you think the baby boomers had that doesn't exist anymore is still feeling entitled to something you didn't earn. You missed my point though, as a Gen X'r, all I ever wanted was for my parents and all elder folks to butt out of my life, leave me the hell alone and get out of my way so I could live my life. I make no excuses for my failures or claim no greatness for my success, I'm not a victim of anything. I just want to be left the alone in my own little part of the world. Millenials seem to be far more interested in what others think of them or want others to be involved in their life to a much greater degree. It seems to me that they suffer because of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nfe wrote:

Here's how the conversation essentially runs:

I was married with two kids and owned my own home at 26, why can't you?

Who the feth cares?

Fixed that for you.

 dracpanzer wrote:

nfe wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them. Hearing that someone of such a young age actually worries that they, by simply being born in a specific span of years, are being blamed for ruining an industry, country or the future because they are lazy, worthless or otherwise is just, odd to me.

Who really cares? Sticks and Stones and all that, or are the words a little too close to the truth not to hurt?

It's your story, tell it however you like...

'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attention'.

Must be a UK thing, because I never had a free anything at college. Feeling entitled to something you think the baby boomers had that doesn't exist anymore is still feeling entitled to something you didn't earn. You missed my point though, as a Gen X'r, all I ever wanted was for my parents and all elder folks to butt out of my life, leave me the hell alone and get out of my way so I could live my life. I make no excuses for my failures or claim no greatness for my success, I'm not a victim of anything. I just want to be left the alone in my own little part of the world. Millenials seem to be far more interested in what others think of them or want others to be involved in their life to a much greater degree. It seems to me that they suffer because of it.

Sounds like a typical angsty, Gen Xer apathy. Did you type this from a coffee shop whilst wearing flannel?

I kid, though, because generalizing an entire generation is stupid. As is thinking that your generation holds the license to wanting autonomy from their elders. Or that your generation wasn't self-obsessed and entitled.

I grew up in the 90's. I remember the Gen X label being used and abused for marketing purposes and for shaming purposes just like the Millennial label is now. But please, tell me more about how Gen X shunned the narcissism of the budding internet culture while riding high on the 90's tech bubble. I'd love to hear that yarn.

I think someone has confused annoyance at being a punching bag with being obsessed with what others think. I don't care what others think. I do find it amusing how self-centered many people can manage to be, unable to recognize obvious things. So if someone is gonna bitch at me about how I'm not married with 2 kids and a home yet, I'm going to have some fun with them not because I care what I think but because is someone is going to start being a tool I might as well get a laugh out of them

Long story short though, someone seems to have missed that quite of bit of this thread is self admitted griping

Mario wrote:
I see it rather the other way around. It's the older generations that are heaping a lot attention on the genX to millenials. <snip> The real crime genx to millienials have committed is that they have seen rather early that they won't be able to have the same life as boomers and they have adjusted to that, and that's hurting the boomers' pension portfolio and they can't stand it.

I don't necessarily agree that my Boomer parents give a rats behind about my GenX self, a situation I am completely okay with.

It also doesn't seem by the jist of this thread and many other similar discussions outside of Dakka that Millenials have adjusted to the fact that you won't be getting the benefits the boomers had. Reality bites... Embrace the suck my friend. Make your own way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Flannel and coffee? Nope. Did I say anyone was obsessed? No. Do I think the Gen X label actually applies to me other than being the one given to folks my age? No. Has all your griping gotten you anywhere? No.

Would you be better off not caring what the establishment or your elders, or parents think of you? I would say, yes. Would you be better off not stressing about where you are supposed to be at this point in your life and just go live your life? I would say, yes.

It really isn't all about you, or me, move along. Nothing to see here.

You seem awfully committed for someone proclaiming such detatchment

 dracpanzer wrote:
Did I say anyone was obsessed? No.

I'd say you implied it pretty heavily that millennials were self-obsessed. Let's see:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Millenials seem to be far more interested in what others think of them or want others to be involved in their life to a much greater degree. It seems to me that they suffer because of it.

And here:

 dracpanzer wrote:
I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Do I think the Gen X label actually applies to me other than being the one given to folks my age? No.

Bull Gak. You just identified as a Gen Xer right here:

 dracpanzer wrote:
You missed my point though, as a Gen X'r, all I ever wanted was for my parents and all elder folks to butt out of my life, leave me the hell alone and get out of my way so I could live my life. I make no excuses for my failures or claim no greatness for my success, I'm not a victim of anything. I just want to be left the alone in my own little part of the world.

Sounds like self identifying to me. Or were you "just" using the label given to you by others?

 dracpanzer wrote:
Would you be better off not caring what the establishment or your elders, or parents think of you? I would say, yes. Would you be better off not stressing about where you are supposed to be at this point in your life and just go live your life? I would say, yes.

Yes, if we could all be zen and not let the stresses of the world overwhelm us we would benefit as individuals and as a society. It is a nice thought but it isn't human nature.

I'm sure it's easy not to stress (or rather stress less cause everyone has stress) when the world favors you, less so when it does not which of course just goes back to all the talk about pretentiousness and being self-centered

Alright guys, have a good weekend!

Imma go unstress myself and listen to Nirvana while sipping on some Crystal Pepsi and watching MTV's Road Rules! My weekend is set!

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Alright guys, have a good weekend!

Imma go unstress myself and listen to Nirvana while sipping on some Crystal Pepsi and watching MTV's Road Rules! My weekend is set!

Don't forget to tie your flannel shirt around your waist. I'm gonna go for a hike with my backpack slipped over only one shoulder while wearing my entire slap bracelet collection on one arm and my Reeboks fully inflated.

Honestly I think Nirvana has been played so much for me I don't find them entertaining anymore (even the songs I like). Personally my favorites lately have been some of the utterly bizarre techno remixes that sometimes get played on Wal-Mart radio. First off who made a techno remix of the Pokemon theme song, and second who the hell requested it XD

We were in a grocery store a few months ago when the Neverending Story song came on the muzak radio thing. My girlfriend just burst out laughing, and I stared at her like she was crazy.

She told me to listen, and I did. Then I could not stop giggling.

dracpanzer wrote:

nfe wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
I am always surprised at how much so-called "millenials" care what people of any age think of them, and how much attention they want those same people of other generations to devote to them. Hearing that someone of such a young age actually worries that they, by simply being born in a specific span of years, are being blamed for ruining an industry, country or the future because they are lazy, worthless or otherwise is just, odd to me.

Who really cares? Sticks and Stones and all that, or are the words a little too close to the truth not to hurt?

It's your story, tell it however you like...

'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attention'.

Must be a UK thing, because I never had a free anything at college.

Obviously. If you want to adjust it for the US, replace 'free education' with 'education that you could afford yourself with a sufficiently low hours part time job'.

Feeling entitled to something you think the baby boomers had that doesn't exist anymore is still feeling entitled to something you didn't earn.

As I stated in the post immediately before you replied to this, no one is saying they're entitled to anything. The point is that it is absurd for one generation to castigate another for failing to achieve what they acheived with significant advantages. It's like if Barcelona decided to start giving Peterhead a hard time because they can't win the Champion League and telling them they just nee to pull their socks up and graft harder.

You missed my point though, as a Gen X'r, all I ever wanted was for my parents and all elder folks to butt out of my life, leave me the hell alone and get out of my way so I could live my life. I make no excuses for my failures or claim no greatness for my success, I'm not a victim of anything. I just want to be left the alone in my own little part of the world. Millenials seem to be far more interested in what others think of them or want others to be involved in their life to a much greater degree. It seems to me that they suffer because of it.

I'd be very interested in exactly how you think this is manifested.

nfe wrote:

Here's how the conversation essentially runs:

I was married with two kids and owned my own home at 26, why can't you?

Who the feth cares?

Fixed that for you.

You've entirely missed the point. The thrust of almost every post you're disagreeing with in the entire thread, is that they'd like to left to their own devices by earlier generations and not harrassed for failing to achieve the things they did with devices they have since removed.

dracpanzer wrote:
It also doesn't seem by the jist of this thread and many other similar discussions outside of Dakka that Millenials have adjusted to the fact that you won't be getting the benefits the boomers had.

Much like how 'I wish you hadn't reaped the benefits of free education and cheap housing and then denied it to us' =/= 'love me and give me attention', 'being slagged off for failing to achieve certain arbitrary goals is annoying and baseless' =/= 'I will not accept that that the world has changed'. In fact, all the evidence would suggest that millennials have wholly accepted the paradigm shift, hence why they aren't all desperately chasing the objectives that others set for them that are no longer appropriate. It's previous generations that tend not to realise how different their context is - or they wouldn't be grumping about their kids not owning houses or paying their way through uni by working weekends in a bar.

Has all your griping gotten you anywhere? No.

Currently, it's actually changing the political narrative in much of Europe. I don't imagine that it'll find the same foothold in the US (though obviously the Sanders-bump is an example of it), but then the starting point is vastly further to the right than anywhere in Europe (probably anywhere in the world bar the Arabian Peninsula?).

Now, I'm sure you're going to read this and think 'oh look, he's still obsessed with what older generations think!' I'd suggest first that A) I don't think of myself as a millennial, though might catch the very start of it according to some date ranges, an B) you really need to listen when people draw a distinction between

Just an aside, so that those from outside the UK (or our younger viewers) understand what we are talking about when it comes to education; up until 1997 not only were you entitled to go to university with no fees, but the government gave you a grant of several thousand pounds a year to help you with living costs, educational materials (or more frequently, beer).

Then, all of a sudden, grants disappeared (except for the very poorest) and we suddenly had to pay fees (initially ~£1000 per year). The thing is for "xilennials" like myself and Mad Doc, who were in our mid-teens, our parents were completely unprepared for this. We had no college funds or savings or any concept that such a thing would be needed, because up until then it wasn't and only a year or two to try and figure out how to make it work. It was a complete betrayal of a social pact, that up until then had been "if you're good enough to go to university, you can, no worries".

 Jadenim wrote:
It was a complete betrayal of a social pact, that up until then had been "if you're good enough to go to university, you can, no worries".

Wait, so there's no government scholarships or student loans?

The Australian system used to be free many years ago but it hasn't been for ages, the current system is not free but based on performance you get a government supported place (which means you pay less fees than a full fee paying student) and the reduced fees don't have to be paid upfront but are given as a loan with minimal interest that you pay off once you start earning money.

In general I like the Australian system, it's not free, but anyone can get in to it based on performance. It varies from year to year, but as an example to get in to my course required at minimum that you be within the top 5% in your final year of high school.