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Hey Guys,

My first try at a 1500 point list for my Dragon Lords army (focus on lots of Demon Engines). All mark of Tzeetch.

PL81, 1497 points, 1 CP

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Daemon Prince with wings, (Warp Time), 2 Malefic Talons, Warp Bolter- 189

Elites
Hell Brute with Power Scourge and Twin Heavy Bolter - 132

Heavy Support
Maulerfiend with lasher tendrils - 161
Maulerfiend with lasher tendrils - 161
Maulerfiend with lasher tendrils - 161

Fast Attack
Heldrake with Baleflamer 215

Super-heavy Auxillary Detachment
Renegade Knight Archeron - 478

Only 7 drops, hell only 7 models. The hell brute feels out of place to me, but not sure what to replace it with.
Also I'm not tied to the Archeron, but I do want some soft of big model (got some awesome conversion ideas).

My big worry is swarms, as I just don't have a huge amount of shots/attacks.

Any thought on how to make it a bit more competitive?

For an army with a focus on daemon engines, it's hard to improve this by much. You don't have any defilers - which is good because they're awful. My only point is that Acheron is one of the weaker cerastus variants. It's flamer has random attacks (I hate gambling with such big guns), and it's melee is -1 to hit - so only half of his attacks even hit. The two stars of the Cerastus' are the castigator and atropos. The castigators bolt cannon will do more damage to a range of targets, and it's tempest warblade is a solid anti mc/vehicle - giving you answers for everything (he's your TAC cerastus). If you want dedicated anti mc/vehicle, coupled with more durability than any other knight, then the Atropos is for you. It has two very powerful ranged weapons, and it's melee is better than any other knights as you reroll failed hits and wounds against vehicles, mc's and buildings. He has a 4++ against shooting, and a 5++ against melee (unlike most knights who have no melee defense outside of armour). Furthermore, you add +1 to shooting when targeting "Titanic" units. Needless to say, the Atropos is my favourite knight variant

there might be some better options then the maulerfiend at FW, but I do not know if you consider FW. (also they are khorne flavoured)

I do not know if a daemonengine based list can get on par with the more competitive lists but they can be fun to play.

I do not see how your list can handle:
hordes (orks, nidz)
deepstriking plasma spam (astra militarum gets that real cheap)
3 knights + Magnus
Razorwing spam

Lancelot185 wrote:
For an army with a focus on daemon engines, it's hard to improve this by much. You don't have any defilers - which is good because they're awful.

I dunno... Defilers are one of the few things capable of wounding T8 on 2s. Yes they're more expensive, but they're also packing bigger fists and more guns. And a pretty scary twin heavy flamer or scourge. They're way better on taking on a horde.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:
For an army with a focus on daemon engines, it's hard to improve this by much. You don't have any defilers - which is good because they're awful.

I dunno... Defilers are one of the few things capable of wounding T8 on 2s. Yes they're more expensive, but they're also packing bigger fists and more guns. And a pretty scary twin heavy flamer or scourge. They're way better on taking on a horde.

They also hit on 4+ and have 3 attacks (so....). For their price tag you can get things that can do far more damage to tanks (Lascannon is the obvious one). Their "bigger guns" are equally awful. Hitting on 4+ with battle cannon and autocannon, with random shots from the former. And, if you want it in melee for it's 2+ against T8, you'll be shooting at 5+ instead - because it doesn't ignore heavy penalty. Twin heavy flamers exist on a lot of things, so, it doesn't redeem the defiler. Ergo, they are awful.

I'm going to have a game running 2 Defilers against an eldar player, I will see how bad they are but I expect them to be a nice distraction unit and I doubt I will regret having them.

they do have a lot of guns with the battle cannon, Twin Lascannon, Twin heavy flamer and combi plasma. They really can dish out a lot of damage both to big guys and hordes.

True the low Bs is annoying but he can benefit from prescience to get a +1 to hit.

His infernal regeneration can help him last longer and is a nice touch.

First off, thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.

Lancelot185 wrote:For an army with a focus on daemon engines, it's hard to improve this by much. You don't have any defilers - which is good because they're awful. My only point is that Acheron is one of the weaker cerastus variants. It's flamer has random attacks (I hate gambling with such big guns), and it's melee is -1 to hit - so only half of his attacks even hit. The two stars of the Cerastus' are the castigator and atropos. The castigators bolt cannon will do more damage to a range of targets, and it's tempest warblade is a solid anti mc/vehicle - giving you answers for everything (he's your TAC cerastus). If you want dedicated anti mc/vehicle, coupled with more durability than any other knight, then the Atropos is for you. It has two very powerful ranged weapons, and it's melee is better than any other knights as you reroll failed hits and wounds against vehicles, mc's and buildings. He has a 4++ against shooting, and a 5++ against melee (unlike most knights who have no melee defense outside of armour). Furthermore, you add +1 to shooting when targeting "Titanic" units. Needless to say, the Atropos is my favourite knight variant

On paper I like the Acheron a lot. I know what you mean about random big guns but auto hitting helps make up for that. It's relatively cheap and I just love the crazy overwatch that it pumps out, meaning your going to choose what it is in combat with 90% of the time. The chainfist is pants, so I imagine you'll just be using the feet to squish things most of the time. I'm going to proxy it for a few games and see how it does.

minisnatcher wrote:there might be some better options then the maulerfiend at FW, but I do not know if you consider FW. (also they are khorne flavoured)

I do not know if a daemonengine based list can get on par with the more competitive lists but they can be fun to play.

I do not see how your list can handle:
hordes (orks, nidz)
deepstriking plasma spam (astra militarum gets that real cheap)
3 knights + Magnus
Razorwing spam

Yes, Decimators are probably better that Maulerfiends although not as durable.
You're probably right, if someone wants to play a more competative game I'd probably drop in some Brimstone units and Changing, maybe even drop the Knight for Magnus.

I'll be interested to see how the game goes with the two defilers, they look overcosted to me but nothing compares to playing them to see how they fare.

Defilers + Reroll bubble = Win on many levels. They have Regenerating Health, they have Strength 8 x2 with Claws. You can hit them with Pres for better shooting. (Seriously, Kharn and two Defilers is kinda dumb on how well they SHOOT things dead on paper. And I have friends swearing to stop playing me if I ever FIELD that, and they have Knights...) Defilers need a bit of TLC, but that is true of all your 4+ Daemon engines.

I applaud a Melee list, and am glad you took Warptime OP. I don't know about that FW pattern unit, but the typical daemon engine Army is quite good at NOT dying. (And Magnus woul make this annoying as to deal with at 2k points.)

Neat! I'm doing the same thing. My 2000pt Daemon Engine list consists of this:

2 Chaos Lords with Jump Packs and Power Axes (one has Plasma Pistol)
3x 3 Nurgling Bases
2 Decimators with 2 Soulburner Petards each
2 Blood Slaughterers
2 Maulerfiends with Lasher Tendrils
Kytan Ravager

I think it'll be good unless their entire army can fit in ruins

The main reason I posted that was to ask if you're opposed to using Forge World things. Blood Slaughterers have an obscene amount of attacks when fighting infantry and are only 180 points. They have the Legion keyword as well so they will benefit from having a Lord nearby. My other list had 3 Lords in it to maximize the output of Mortal Wounds from the Decimators. 8D3 Mortal Wounds (with rerolls of 1 to hit) is pretty brutal. Follow it up with a charge from the Kytan and bye bye anything

 anticitizen013 wrote:
Neat! I'm doing the same thing. My 2000pt Daemon Engine list consists of this:

2 Chaos Lords with Jump Packs and Power Axes (one has Plasma Pistol)
3x 3 Nurgling Bases
2 Decimators with 2 Soulburner Petards each
2 Blood Slaughterers
2 Maulerfiends with Lasher Tendrils
Kytan Ravager

I think it'll be good unless their entire army can fit in ruins

The main reason I posted that was to ask if you're opposed to using Forge World things. Blood Slaughterers have an obscene amount of attacks when fighting infantry and are only 180 points. They have the Legion keyword as well so they will benefit from having a Lord nearby. My other list had 3 Lords in it to maximize the output of Mortal Wounds from the Decimators. 8D3 Mortal Wounds (with rerolls of 1 to hit) is pretty brutal. Follow it up with a charge from the Kytan and bye bye anything

Yes, Blood slaughters are definitely tempting, but a bit squishier than Maulerfiends so I'd probably do all one or the other.

I think the FAQ on Soulburners mean that just aren't worth the points anymore. 210 for an 8 wound model, is just asking to be mushed turn one.

Personally I also prefer a demon prince over lords, the combination of Warp time and considerable combat threat mean they synergies a bit better with the rest of the list. But will be interesting to see how the cheap lords do.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
Neat! I'm doing the same thing. My 2000pt Daemon Engine list consists of this:

2 Chaos Lords with Jump Packs and Power Axes (one has Plasma Pistol)
3x 3 Nurgling Bases
2 Decimators with 2 Soulburner Petards each
2 Blood Slaughterers
2 Maulerfiends with Lasher Tendrils
Kytan Ravager

I think it'll be good unless their entire army can fit in ruins

The main reason I posted that was to ask if you're opposed to using Forge World things. Blood Slaughterers have an obscene amount of attacks when fighting infantry and are only 180 points. They have the Legion keyword as well so they will benefit from having a Lord nearby. My other list had 3 Lords in it to maximize the output of Mortal Wounds from the Decimators. 8D3 Mortal Wounds (with rerolls of 1 to hit) is pretty brutal. Follow it up with a charge from the Kytan and bye bye anything

You have a Kytan, and, seeing as it can be buffed by Astartes psychic, you really ought to get someone into your list that can warptime him and prescience him. The only reason to take him over any of the knight variants is because he can be buffed.

Edit: As the guy above said, Soulburner Decimators aren't worth it anymore. They used to be absolutely brilliant, but are now unusable competitively. I'd look at kheres contemptors instead - the FAQ means they can take two ranged weapons. They have better bs, and 2 more wounds than the decimator. Markedly smaller size too, so cover is easier to get.