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Damn, those are lists that are good?

I don't think you can help them, save for intentionally losing.

If you are running a conscript army there is your answer

 Backspacehacker wrote:
If you are running a conscript army there is your answer

He doesnt appear to be.

Sounds to me like like its some kinda social problem not a game problem.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
If you are running a conscript army there is your answer

He posted his list, which was 4 guard squads, 2 command squads, 2 sentinels, a leman russ, and a wyvern-- not a single conscript.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
If you are running a conscript army there is your answer

Thanks for your input.

I too enjoy not reading threads before providing my opinion.

My opinion on this: I don't really know what to tell you. Everything seems to check out, and yet people still apparently think you're 'too efficient'. I got the same thing for a while before simply swapping playgroups. Building efficient armies / using them efficiently isn't a bad thing.

Doctoralex wrote:
Thanks for all the responses guys!

Here's (roughly) the llist i used last game that was still considered too efficient:

Battalion:

2x company commander

4x infantry squad with autocannon and sniper rifle

2x sentinel with multilaser

1 leman russ exterminator

1x wyvern

I have asked my opponents how I can help them and as i mentioned, they said that i was using my units too efficiently.
Several people also hated the Wyvern, so i wont be fielding that anymore.

Ive also noticed that people dont like it when i focus fire a unit to destroy it in one turn. Again, maybe i should use my units a bit less efficient and spread my fire around?

On other points;
-as far as i know there isnt a hygiene problem. I shower every day (twice with this current heat), change clothes daily put on deoderant twice a day and try to be mindful of my hygiene in general.
-Most of my army is painted though i admit, at a poor Quality. I dont enjoy the painting side of the hobby.
-a lot of comments have said the Guard is super OP now, even if i dont field the OP units (comscripts, plasma spam, arty spam, astropaths etc).

Switching the army with my opponent does sound like a good idea! Ill try that!

Well it definitely ain't your list's fault, that's for sure. I can't imagine what they'd think of the guard lists I've been using (and still managed to lose with)

Ive also noticed that people dont like it when i focus fire a unit to destroy it in one turn. Again, maybe i should use my units a bit less efficient and spread my fire around?

No, if what you're saying is true they're literally getting mad at you for not being a moron. That is tactics 101, something a player should've learned by his or her first couple of games. This isn't spamming plasma stormtroopers, this is playing the game. Do they get mad when you go for objectives or not intentionally run your commander out into the open to get shot?

One of the most insulting things you can do in my opinion is "hold back" during a game. By that I mean intentionally making bad plays just so the other player can win. I will intentionally gimp my list against new players or for demo games to make it an even playing field, but I make it clear that I will not go easy. Otherwise it's not a real win for them, you're cheating them out of an honest game. In demo games I may do a dumb play to teach someone something ("Well the game is almost over and we haven't shown you charging yet, so I'm going to charge your warlord with my infantry squad. It's a dumb play but it'll do the job nicely for showing you why I was scared of him.") but I never do something like not firing my weapons or not charging unless it's an honest mistake. To get mad at your opponent for not making mistakes is pretty ridiculous too. They do know they have these same tools as well right? Grenades aren't an IG only special rule.

Can you tell us one of your opponents' lists? See what you're running against?

Yeah, this definitely isn't a case of "being too good". Because honestly, based on what I can see you're not very good (sorry), you very much seem to be still learning the ropes yourself.

So if they legitimately are having a hard time winning against you and are bitter about it... they just need to git gud.

However, I would definitely recommend that when they say you're being "too efficient", ask if they mean "too slow". Because you definitely seem to be in the part of the learning curve where you're starting to learn about tricks like using grenades and focusing fire, but where it takes you a while to remember everything you can do and you haven't gotten the hang of doing it quickly. Just based off of what I've read so far of course.

For example, when you focus fire on a unit, do you fire one gun or a couple guns at a time until it dies, or do you total up everything that is shooting it first and then roll everything at once? Doing the math first and then doing one big roll is much faster, even if it does sometimes result in a bit of overkill.

Planning during your opponent's turn helps a lot too, at least as long as you don't plan out loud. If you've already figured out 90% of what you want to do before your turn starts, your turn goes much faster.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Thanks for all the responses guys!

Here's (roughly) the llist i used last game that was still considered too efficient:

Battalion:

2x company commander

4x infantry squad with autocannon and sniper rifle

2x sentinel with multilaser

1 leman russ exterminator

1x wyvern

I have asked my opponents how I can help them and as i mentioned, they said that i was using my units too efficiently.
Several people also hated the Wyvern, so i wont be fielding that anymore.

Ive also noticed that people dont like it when i focus fire a unit to destroy it in one turn. Again, maybe i should use my units a bit less efficient and spread my fire around?

This is not a scary list.

Losing builds character and helps them learn. Keep kicking the gak out of them.

^ this guy gets it.

 ross-128 wrote:

For example, when you focus fire on a unit, do you fire one gun or a couple guns at a time until it dies, or do you total up everything that is shooting it first and then roll everything at once? Doing the math first and then doing one big roll is much faster, even if it does sometimes result in a bit of overkill.

That's a good question.

Losing builds character and helps them learn. Keep kicking the gak out of them.

At least for a while. How many people are you talking about here? 8 games does not mean 8 people.

Honestly that is almost as tame as a guard army can be right now.

The only maybe annoying thing maybe is that it doesn't move, are you playing objective games and have you thought about adding ogryn?

Doctoralex wrote:
Thanks for all the responses guys!

Here's (roughly) the llist i used last game that was still considered too efficient:

Battalion:

2x company commander

4x infantry squad with autocannon and sniper rifle

2x sentinel with multilaser

1 leman russ exterminator

1x wyvern

I have asked my opponents how I can help them and as i mentioned, they said that i was using my units too efficiently.
Several people also hated the Wyvern, so i wont be fielding that anymore.

Ive also noticed that people dont like it when i focus fire a unit to destroy it in one turn. Again, maybe i should use my units a bit less efficient and spread my fire around?

On other points;
-as far as i know there isnt a hygiene problem. I shower every day (twice with this current heat), change clothes daily put on deoderant twice a day and try to be mindful of my hygiene in general.
-Most of my army is painted though i admit, at a poor Quality. I dont enjoy the painting side of the hobby.
-a lot of comments have said the Guard is super OP now, even if i dont field the OP units (comscripts, plasma spam, arty spam, astropaths etc).

Switching the army with my opponent does sound like a good idea! Ill try that!

You're not using any units that are considered overpowered, and you're using several things that are clearly considered underpowered. It sounds like they're just a bunch of whiners who are mad because they can't roll over your army without any thought. Or maybe they read internet forums where people whine about mathhammer units no one ever uses and are all unhappy about it.

Either way, stop playing them and find new opponents or friends if you can. No Warhammer is better than bad Warhammer in my opinion.

Selym wrote:

 GreaterGood? wrote:
Thier liars, or their donkey-caves.

I'm sorry, but see sig.

You might want to correct your sig, the definition of 'There' is incorrect. It refers to location, not direction.

Doctoralex wrote:Thanks for all the responses guys!

Here's (roughly) the llist i used last game that was still considered too efficient:

Battalion:

2x company commander

4x infantry squad with autocannon and sniper rifle

2x sentinel with multilaser

1 leman russ exterminator

1x wyvern

I have asked my opponents how I can help them and as i mentioned, they said that i was using my units too efficiently.
Several people also hated the Wyvern, so i wont be fielding that anymore.

Ive also noticed that people dont like it when i focus fire a unit to destroy it in one turn. Again, maybe i should use my units a bit less efficient and spread my fire around?

On other points;
-as far as i know there isnt a hygiene problem. I shower every day (twice with this current heat), change clothes daily put on deoderant twice a day and try to be mindful of my hygiene in general.
-Most of my army is painted though i admit, at a poor Quality. I dont enjoy the painting side of the hobby.
-a lot of comments have said the Guard is super OP now, even if i dont field the OP units (comscripts, plasma spam, arty spam, astropaths etc).

Switching the army with my opponent does sound like a good idea! Ill try that!

Army switching can be good. Also deliberately tailoring your list to make it hard for yourself to win. It can even be fun if you are simply better than your opponents. Try to win by close combat with guard or something dumb like that. Personally, I sometimes have similar issues and, when I do, I tend to make awful lists and set myself challenges, or build lists based on a narrative about a crazy commander. I am a pretty good player, but I find if I hobble myself in list building I can have a good game against someone who isn't without deliberately losing.

You have encounter a very prevalent group of, as Peregrine says Casual at All Cost players. Even me being a very Casual player run from that people.

Is people that wan't to play the game the way they think is the good one and will mona endlessly until you agree to do everything they want you to do.

Probably are the type of people that are too into internet hyperbole and after reading posts of "OMG GUARD IZ OP NERF PLIZ RITO" they have taken thas as a gospel or a divine truth and they aren't gonna enjoy playin agains't Guard until they read on internet that they have been balanced.

Is the equivalent of people in 7th don't wanting to play Eldar even if the Eldar was just a Aspect Warrior army.

Drager wrote:
Try to win by close combat with guard or something dumb like that.

Close combat Guard isn't as hard as you'd think. Ministorum Priests have a 6" +1 attack aura that applies to both <Adeptus Ministorum> units and <Astra Militaritum> units. Include a couple of those, perhaps with power mauls, and they can quite literally double your guard infantry's attack power, or add extra oomph to an ogryn assault.

It won't win against a dedicated close combat murderforce like Khornate Berzerkers, but it'll easily catch an unaware player off-guard (heh, puns). Can even take an Adeptus Ministorum Vanguard detachment to supplement your Guard forces. Uriah Jacobus + Crusaders + Priest + Priest. The Crusaders have a 3++ inv save and power sword at 15pts apiece with a minimum squad size of 2 and rerolls on its 2 WS3+ close combat hits when it charges, but the big surprise with them is they can use Acts of Faith. Since they're the only unit in your army that could use Acts of Faith, half the time your Crusaders will get a bonus phase of your choice, or gain models back-- an additional phase of movement to catch an opponent unaware, or another fight phase, or regaining lost models.

Since they took Ministorum Priests out of the Imperial Guard book, and these models specifically say they work with Astra Militaritum units, I'd have no worry about using them.

I use Bullgryns with a mix of Shields as my hard hitting force in my Genestealer Cultist army and they are pretty good this edition. They go toe to toe with Assault Terminators many times, for example.

Now imagine if those Bullgryns had +1 attack and leadership because Uriah Motherfethin' Jacobus is with them.

But he isn't Astra Militarum so I can't use him in a Genestealer Cultist army

 Galas wrote:
But he isn't Astra Militarum so I can't use him in a Genestealer Cultist army

True, but you CAN use him in support of an Astra Militaritum squad of Bullgryns and Shields.

 Aesthete wrote:
The best bet, though, is asking the other players exactly what you asked us "I'm having a good time, but I don't think you are. I don't want to be 'that guy' and I want both of us to have fun - what can I change to make this work out for both of us?"

This.

Also, I don't understand the people suggesting you take weird or weaker lists. Why? We are playing a game about war. Strategy and list building are what you should strive to perfect. If these other players don't get that then maybe you shouldn't play them again. This is of course assuming everything OP said in his post was true.

If you want to "fit in" then maybe think about a new army. This can be fun for you, as you learn the in's and out's of working with new units, and could potentially squelch the issues these other players are having.

 Galas wrote:
But he isn't Astra Militarum so I can't use him in a Genestealer Cultist army

Yes he is. I'm looking at him right now. He has Astra Militarum in his keywords. Am I missing something?

If a player has problems losing, then don't play them until they man up. Enjoying the game, whether you lose or not, is all that matters. If they don't have fun getting their butts handed to them, that's on them. Keep on stomping!

It's more the perceived "Guard are new Eldar" shtick thing that may be it as well. Honestly, talk with them, see how they feel about it all.

Yeah at this point you might as well ask.

Doctoralex wrote:
Thanks for all the responses guys!

Here's (roughly) the llist i used last game that was still considered too efficient:

Battalion:

2x company commander

4x infantry squad with autocannon and sniper rifle

2x sentinel with multilaser

1 leman russ exterminator

1x wyvern

I have asked my opponents how I can help them and as i mentioned, they said that i was using my units too efficiently.
Several people also hated the Wyvern, so i wont be fielding that anymore.

Ive also noticed that people dont like it when i focus fire a unit to destroy it in one turn. Again, maybe i should use my units a bit less efficient and spread my fire around?

On other points;
-as far as i know there isnt a hygiene problem. I shower every day (twice with this current heat), change clothes daily put on deoderant twice a day and try to be mindful of my hygiene in general.
-Most of my army is painted though i admit, at a poor Quality. I dont enjoy the painting side of the hobby.
-a lot of comments have said the Guard is super OP now, even if i dont field the OP units (comscripts, plasma spam, arty spam, astropaths etc).

Switching the army with my opponent does sound like a good idea! Ill try that!

I know how you feel, I've was in the same boat in 7th, had to severely power down my necrons due to fighting guard/tyranids/fluffy demons. Had a crazy good win rate and only fielded the decurion twice, tried as much as possible to not bring powerful lists, helped and encouraged them with lists/stronger combos. Still won a lot and my cron's weren't fun to play against, due in part because of necrons RP making losses hard to get, and part because I was playing the game much better than they could. It's not fun for either party.

Luckily for me 8th has brought their power up and mine down, so it feels like a battle now instead of a slaughter. And now I feel how they felt in 7th, especially when going up against guard. They just aren't fun to play against, conscripts are ridiculously hard to kill, put out ludicrous firepower with FRFSRF. Scion spam is hard to deal with, and most of your big guns have the range to hit others before they hit you/not even need LOS.

My friend spams conscripts and scions and wyverns/mortar teams all day. A list I would decimate in 7th now I can't kill even 40% of.

I haven't found a solution yet, I still know/play the game better than my friends, and still help them, but I've just been lucky to have a nerf, not an insane power increase.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
If you are running a conscript army there is your answer

Thanks for your input.

I too enjoy not reading threads before providing my opinion.

My opinion on this: I don't really know what to tell you. Everything seems to check out, and yet people still apparently think you're 'too efficient'. I got the same thing for a while before simply swapping playgroups. Building efficient armies / using them efficiently isn't a bad thing.

He already said what the problem is - He's focusing fire on enemy units until they are gone, then moving on to the next enemy unit and shooting it. In other words, he's playing intelligently. And the current rules set greatly rewards shooty armies in the hands of intelligent players.

Seriously, dude - The next time someone says "You're playing to efficiently" tell then "No, I am teaching you by example how you can play YOUR army efficiently."

honestly focus firing shouldn''t be that odd a idea anyway, they shouldn't need an example for it.

Swap armies with your opponent for a game.

what army's are you fighting? what where they fielding?

I play against guard a lot and have no problem beating them. We usually play around 1850 points but will probably go up to 2000pts with this edition as a standard game. your list seems below 1500 points so what are you playing? 1250?.


not enough info to really offer any advice if its a low point game maybe stay away from any artillery and maybe only a single tank or 1 group of sentinels but again its hard to say if all else fails try giving them an extra 250 points to spend or 500 depending how it all goes or just stop playing them because it cant be fun for you winning all the time as I personal hate winning all the time its dull.