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You gonna love the gw double standard... a lot of things have been removed from the SM dex due to there not a model for it, like bike libby or Khan on a bike.
But the wd Will show us a guide to kit-bash a grand Master dreadknight.. so GK are allowed to get rules for models there are no miniature for, but SM are not
Meh, it's inconsistent even within the SM codex itself, e.g. las-plas Razorback is out but twin assault cannon razorback is still in, despite neither being supported.
Lanlaorn wrote: Meh, it's inconsistent even within the SM codex itself, e.g. las-plas Razorback is out but twin assault cannon razorback is still in, despite neither being supported.
They at least at one point did make a lasplas turret.
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Lanlaorn wrote: Meh, it's inconsistent even within the SM codex itself, e.g. las-plas Razorback is out but twin assault cannon razorback is still in, despite neither being supported.
It seems like GW wants to make extra clear that they have no consistent opinion on the "no model, no rules" issue. Quoting myself from a thread about the Ork Looted Wagon:
Darnok wrote: For the time being you have no other legal option than use either the Battlewagons rules or something from the FW index list. Depending on the size of the model, you could also use it as a Trukk, Wartrakk, Skorcha or Warbuggy. Whether the new codex will provide rules for the Looted Wagon is impossible to sa for now, since GW is inconsistent about the "no model, no rules" issue, contrary to claims otherwise.
BaconCatBug wrote: As is well known at this point, due to the Chapter House lawsuits, Games Workshop has adopted a STRICT No Model, No Rules policy
But this is just not true, as - ironically - proven by the Ork index list. It provides datasheets for "Warboss in Mega Armour", "Warboss on Warbike", "Big Mek on Warbike" and "Painboy on Warbike" - none of which have a current model, or ever had one that I am aware of. I'm not even sure that the last two were an option at all (haven't played during 6th/7th edition), but there are not even proper conversion options around anyway.*
The point is: none of these units have a model on sale from GW, yet they have rules now. The Looted Wagon has been around since 2nd edition, yet has no rules now. Make of that what you will, there is no consistent position from GW on it though.
On a side note: "Nobz on Warbikes" are in a funny position. They were a thing as far back as 2nd edition, and were quite popular during 4th or 5th edition (mostly due to rules schenanigans). But technically there is no kit for them. Yes, the Warbike kit comes with parts for a Nob - but only for one model. The Nobz kit on the other hand is incompatible with the Warbikes insofar as the Nob bodies do not fit on the bikes. You have to either use Nob arms on undersized bodies, or hunt for other bits (one source being the regular Orkboyz kit). GW would have been rightfully shitstormed for removing the Nobbiker option - but properly converting them is far from trivial.
* ... Of course you could use certain parts from the Nobz and/or Meganobz kit, but I'd hardly call that "proper".
I'm sure you could just use the regular Dreadknight kit and call it a Grandmaster, but GW going the extra mile by putting a "How to convert..." article in WD is... special. They clearly do not know what they want - maybe just confusing their customers...
Lanlaorn wrote: Meh, it's inconsistent even within the SM codex itself, e.g. las-plas Razorback is out but twin assault cannon razorback is still in, despite neither being supported.
There is a assault Cannon option in the box
No there isn't. Heavy bolter and Lascannon. That's it.
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It seems like GW wants to make extra clear that they have no consistent opinion on the "no model, no rules" issue. Quoting myself from a thread about the Ork Looted Wagon:
Darnok wrote: For the time being you have no other legal option than use either the Battlewagons rules or something from the FW index list. Depending on the size of the model, you could also use it as a Trukk, Wartrakk, Skorcha or Warbuggy. Whether the new codex will provide rules for the Looted Wagon is impossible to sa for now, since GW is inconsistent about the "no model, no rules" issue, contrary to claims otherwise.
BaconCatBug wrote: As is well known at this point, due to the Chapter House lawsuits, Games Workshop has adopted a STRICT No Model, No Rules policy
But this is just not true, as - ironically - proven by the Ork index list. It provides datasheets for "Warboss in Mega Armour", "Warboss on Warbike", "Big Mek on Warbike" and "Painboy on Warbike" - none of which have a current model, or ever had one that I am aware of. I'm not even sure that the last two were an option at all (haven't played during 6th/7th edition), but there are not even proper conversion options around anyway.*
The point is: none of these units have a model on sale from GW, yet they have rules now. The Looted Wagon has been around since 2nd edition, yet has no rules now. Make of that what you will, there is no consistent position from GW on it though.
On a side note: "Nobz on Warbikes" are in a funny position. They were a thing as far back as 2nd edition, and were quite popular during 4th or 5th edition (mostly due to rules schenanigans). But technically there is no kit for them. Yes, the Warbike kit comes with parts for a Nob - but only for one model. The Nobz kit on the other hand is incompatible with the Warbikes insofar as the Nob bodies do not fit on the bikes. You have to either use Nob arms on undersized bodies, or hunt for other bits (one source being the regular Orkboyz kit). GW would have been rightfully shitstormed for removing the Nobbiker option - but properly converting them is far from trivial.
* ... Of course you could use certain parts from the Nobz and/or Meganobz kit, but I'd hardly call that "proper".
I'm sure you could just use the regular Dreadknight kit and call it a Grandmaster, but GW going the extra mile by putting a "How to convert..." article in WD is... special. They clearly do not know what they want - maybe just confusing their customers...
While I agree with you, Darnok, two corrections there is a Nobz Warbiker and Warboss on Bike kit available from Forgeworld
They are reboxing the Grey Knight kits currently, there is an advert in August White Dwarf. It could make sense to wait, because of this and rules changing.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/01 05:17:25
Which may have influenced their decision regarding these units while others have been canned
Eh, I actually had forgotten these FW models existed, thanks for bringing them up! That oooold model is just what you could take in the 2nd edition Codex: driver plus Nob.
The FW kits do not make GWs stand on the issue any clearer though. So am I supposed to use FW models for Codex rules? Then why do some of the FW models have no GW rules while others have? Some previously available Codex rules having FW model options still exist in new rules, some not.
The whole issue is weird, and GW clearly does not know what they want.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 05:30:13
Darnok wrote: The whole issue is weird, and GW clearly does not know what they want.
Sadly yes. It looks like there isn't even a pattern behind this. In case of the Ork Boyz they removed the 4+/'eavy Armour/'ard Boyz option entirely. Some 'ard Boyz bits would have been in the kit. The Nobz wear 4+ per default now even though its only bits for them, too. I guess these are decisions made by the rules team to balance the units because all the other special units like Flash Gitz and Tankbustz lack a 4+. It cant be the models. Flash Gitz wear more armour than those Nobz. It is getting offtopic now but I think several other factions will loose options until there will be modelling options for these. Which sucks. A lot
Shrug, it could even be competing interests in the company, e.g. the legal department wants it one way but the rules and art guys don't like it and do the bare minimum of what they're told to.
Lanlaorn wrote: Meh, it's inconsistent even within the SM codex itself, e.g. las-plas Razorback is out but twin assault cannon razorback is still in, despite neither being supported.
There is a assault Cannon option in the box
No there isn't. Heavy bolter and Lascannon. That's it.
Probably because you can pull a twin assault cannon off a LRC/LRR and/or the Upgrade kit you can buy off their website.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
cuda1179 wrote: Well, that's just silly. So a dreadnought can only have a DCCW or missile launcher on the left arm, and a TL lascannon or assault cannon on the right? No more autocannons? No more Plasmacannon? No more TW heavy bolter?
Did that apply to razorbacks as well? I have TL assault cannons and las plas that are nervous.
Its in discussion. TL AssCan Razors are still a thing in the new codex. And as said, they've said use the Index if its missing from the Codex.
Dreadnoughts have Plasma Cannons in the box, its in the Venerable Dreadnought/Space Wolf Dreadnought kit and they all fit each other. Autocannons on the other hand have been phased out of the Codex but are still legal through the Index. However, they, TLHB and Heavy Flamers have always been FW exclusive pieces.
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I was looking at the GK terminator/PA kits , and thinking you could build any generic HQ by kit bashing and painting with them. Looking at it that way a GMDK is not that far off.
ZombieDK wrote: You gonna love the gw double standard... a lot of things have been removed from the SM dex due to there not a model for it, like bike libby or Khan on a bike.
But the wd Will show us a guide to kit-bash a grand Master dreadknight.. so GK are allowed to get rules for models there are no miniature for, but SM are not
I now believe that the missing entries were from incompetence and not malice. I mean, look how fething big the SM codex has gotten. It's bigger then index imperium 1 only it has 5 less factions lol. I would wager they needed to cut some stuff to comply with some manufacturing constraint and they haphazardly cut what is missing. Either way we will find out in about a week with chaos and grey knights release.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: They was a GK novel that had a GK Chaplain I'm sure. He had Nemesis Lightning Claws.
Neat!
PS I miss your old avatar...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/03 01:05:52
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