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Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W069dPLTXg0

I'm gunna try and list everything I notice, as well as break down all of the legion traits, psychic powers etc.

Legion Tactics (In order of my best to worst):

Alpha legion: -1 to hit when over 12" away from enemy. Like Raven Guard, it's brilliant. Instantly makes your units and backfield obj guys tougher. Really punishes gunline armies.
World Eaters: +1 attack for the fight phase. This has been covered a lot recently because it's brilliant.
Renegade Chapters: Can advance and charge. Fantastic. Best used with guys that get the most from advancing (bikers etc).
Emperors Children: Always strike first in combat. Really good. My main issue with it is that it's not as good as the WE one.
Night Lords: -1 to enemy leadership, stacks to -3. Been covered a lot. It's situational, and completely ineffective against some armies. Brilliant against others.
Black Legion: +1 leadership. Rapid fire weapons act like assault weapons when advancing. Not bad, not great.
Iron Warriors: Enemies don't get cover saves, and reroll failed wounds against buildings. It's bad, we know it's bad.
Word Bearers: Reroll failed morale tests. Not bad, but completely overshadowed by other tactics.

Psychic Powers (some are very juicy):

Warptime: Same.
Prescience: Same.
Infernal Gaze: Same.
Diabolic Strength: WC6, 12" range. +2 strength and +1 attack to a model. Can be used to get a guy over a damage threshold so that he's wounding enemies better. It's not bad, wouldn't say it's the best though.
Death Hex: WC8!! 12" range. Removes a units invuln save. Could be utterly brutal. If you've got a tough HQ relying on their invuln against your rending weapons, it's a great way to stick a finger to them. Not sure I'd take it over prescience or warptime, though.
Gift of Chaos: WC6. 6" range. Roll a d6, if it's greater than targets toughness, they take d3+3 mortal wounds. If a character is killed, you get a chaos spawn to rub salt into the wound. If you know you're facing a low toughness army, this could be a brilliant assassination power.

God-specific powers (whatever mark your sorcerer has, he can elect to use his god's power instead of one of his chosen powers):

Tzeentch: WC6. 18" range. +1 to invuln saves. Models without one, get a 5++. Great for buffing a unit.
Nurgle: WC6, 18" range. Makes a unit -1 to hit. Like the above, it's pretty handy.
Slaanesh: WC6, 18" range. Gives a unit 5+ fnp. The best of the three, imo.

Warlord Traits:

Eternal Vendetta: Reroll wounds against Space Marines. Eh. Overshadowed by the god-tier +1 wound trait.
Flames of Spite: Wounds of 6+ inflict an additonal mortal wound. No.
Unholy Fortitude: +1 wound. 6+ fnp. YES. The best of them all. Seriously, a free wound and fnp (6+).
Hatred Incarnate: Reroll wound rolls of 1. Take an exalted champion and laugh at how bad this trait is.
Lord of Terror: Enemy must roll and extra die when taking moral tests for units within 6" of warlord and pick the two highest. It's not +1 wound, so...pass.
Exalted Champion: +1 attack. Can't complain.

Legion-specific:

Alpha legion: This is a familiar one. When your warlord dies, pick another AL character and he becomes your warlord. Great for denying your opponent slay the warlord. Also, you get to roll on the standard warlord traits table for each warlord you get.
Black Legion: Death to the false emperor triggers on 5+ for guys within 6". Isn't awful. But, it's hardly the best.
Emperors Children: +1 attack for each wound your warlord takes. Caps out at +3. It involves taking damage, which i'm not fond of.
Iron Warriors: Auto-pass morale when within 6" of warlord. Budget Abaddon. Comes with the tax of being iron warriors, though.
Night Lords: Once per round, reroll a die, or two for failed charges. Free cp reroll each turn. Pretty good.
Word Bearers: All auras range increased by 3". I haven't had any issues with my aura range so far. So, i can't say this is very good.

Stratagems (I'm only going to mention the ones I think are worthwhile (I'm too lazy to write all of them down)):

VOTL: 1 CP to give an infantry or biker unit +1 to wound in shooting or melee. Fantastic. Brilliant. Yessss. Want Lascannons wounding raiders on 2's? Want berserkers wounding infantry on 2's? (rerolling because of the beautiful exalted champion)
The Great Sorcerer: 1 CP to let a sorcerer use another psychic power. Good for when you really want to smite.
Endless Cacophony: 2 CP to let a slaanesh infantry or biker units shoot again. Got slaanesh havocs? Well, for 3 CP, you can have 8 shots against T8, that wound on 2's. GG, Land Raider, GG.
Daemonforge: 1 Cp to let a daemon vehicle reroll hits and wounds in shooting or melee. Makes daemon vehicles less terrible for being BS/WS 4+.
Blasphemous Machines: 1 CP to let a vehicle ignore the penalty for moving a heavy weapon. Great for redeployment.
Tide of Traitors: 2 CP. At the end of your movement phase, remove a cultist unit and redeploy it anywhere 6" from a table edge (not 9" from enemy etc). it also goes back to it's full starting strength. Very powerful. Not only can you spontaneously throw a big blob onto an objective or into your opponents face, you also regain everyone that your opponent wasted shots on.
Fire Frenzy - 1 CP. If a helbrute (presumably helbrute keyword) doesn't move, you can use this to shoot twice. The extra shots must target the nearest enemy unit. This pairs terrifyingly well with leviathans (due to their dakka output), and is also pretty good for contemptors and deredeos. For a leviathan with two butcher cannons, it costs 1 cp to get an extra 16 s8 shots, hitting on 2's. That's a great use of command points.

Legion Specific:

Alpha legion: 1 CP to let a unit scout ahead before the game starts (more than 9" away from enemies, of course), and then reveal it's location at the beginning of the game. My favourite legion one. Currently thinking about using it on a character to get some daemon summoning happening turn one in the enemies face. Also pairs well with melee units.
Night Lords: 1 CP. -1 to hit an infantry unit. It's good. We like penalties to hit.
Word Bearers: 1CP. Reroll any dice when summoning, an you never suffer mortal wounds from doubles or triples. Great for getting a daemon unit in. Bad because it's word bearers and their tactics aren't good.

Relics:

Talisman of Burning blood: Khorne Only. Advance and charge in the same turn. Reroll charge range. Great for maneuverability. Almost irrelevant for renegade chapters.
Eye of Tzeentch: Tzeentch only. Add 1 to smite harnessing. You now get it on 4+, which is nice. Better relics than this, though - smite isn't hard to cast.
Intoxicating Elixir: Slaanesh only. +1 strength and attack. Really nice.
Puscleaver: Nurgle only. Replaces power sword with S user, ap-2, d3 damage, wounds on 2+, save for vehicles - which it wounds like normal.
Axe of Blind Fury: Replaces power axe. S +3, ap -3, D3 damage. Can't modify hit rolls of one, instead, they hit friendlies within 1". It's powerful, but risky. Not my preference.
The Black Mace: Replaces Power maul. S +3, ap-2, 2 damage. For each slain model, rol la d6. If you get a 6, that model's unit takes a mortal wound. My favourite of the weapons.
The Murder Sword: S +1, ap -4, 1 damage. Nominate one enemy character at the beginning of each battle round. The murder sword will inflict one auto-mortal wound on it in combat.

Legion-specific:

Black Legion: Once oer game, select a visible enemy vehicle. On a d6 roll of 2+, it takes d3 mortal wounds. Not really that powerful.
Word Bearers: Replaces power maul. S +2, ap -2, 3 damage. Reroll wounds against imperium units. It's a better black mace.
Iron Warriors: 2+ armour. Heals a wound each turn. One of the best relics. One of the worst legions. You decide.
World Eaters: Bearer of this collar can try to deny a psychic power. If it succeeds, the psyker suffers perils of the warp.
Alpha Legion: Replaces chainsword. S +1, ap -2, 2 damage. Attacker makes d3 additional attacks. It's pretty powerful. Probably the best melee weapon for an alpha legion hq.
Night Lords: Replaces lightning claws. S +1, ap -3, d3 damage. Gives +1 attack ,and reroll failed wounds. Great melee weapon for night lords.
Emperors Children: Replaces bolt pistol. 6" range, assault d6, S user, ap-1, 1 damage. Can be fired in combat. If an enemy character is wounded by this, roll a die, on a 6+ it takes d3 mortal wounds.

Points Changes (copied from one of the YouTube comments. The terminator himself, seems to have wrote it):

" - noise marines from 16 to 15
- plague marines from 21 to 19
- mutilators from 65 to 50
- warpsmiths from 78 to 45 ( ! )
- vindicators from 160 to 135
- predators from 101 to 90
- cultists from 5 to 4
- maulerfiends from 149 to 140
- defilers from 216 to 152
- lord of skulls from 465 to 365
- bloodletters and daemonettes from 9 to 7
- plaguebearers from 8 to 7
- pink horrors from 10 to 6
- pairs of brimstone horrors from 2 to 3 (cry)
- power fists from 20 to 12
- and loads more points cost changes that I either couldn't decipher or that weren't on screen "

Unit changes (copied from the terminator):

" - cult units can no longer be troops
- characters on mounts or bikes are gone ( ripperino all your conversions )
- new HQ unit, the exalted champion, same profile as a chaos lord on foot with 1 less wound, costs 4 points less and has the same weapon options, instead of the re-rolling 1s aura of the chaos lord he has re-rolls to wound aura for melee , all wound rolls not just 1s
- since only units with the helbrute, infantry or biker keyword get to benefit from legion tactics, this will not include daemon engines, other vehicles, spawn and daemon princes
- doom sirens are now assault d6 instead of assault d3
- oblits now fire double as many shots, with no changes in points cost or anywhere else . . . take them
- same with posessed, 2 wounds instead of 1 with no other changes in profile or points cost
- with the lesser daemons now the only chaos daemon unit in the codex, they are the only unit you can summon besides other CSM units with the daemon keyword ( like daemon engines )
- there are LOADS of extra options for plague marines - since I don't play them though, I don't really care - here's a timestamp for anyone who is interested 15:16 ( this also means that there probably is a new kit for them on the way, since these options aren't included in the current boxes ) "

So, there we go. The new codex. I'm pretty happy with this. And look forward to running WE and AL together.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, we also have the same ObSec that space marines get.

EDIT 2: Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. Same as Space Marines.




This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/08/06 08:42:08


 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Ok so despite the lackluster legion rule, it looks like a lot of things came up for my Iron Warriors. Especially that Warpsmith points drop.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Ok so despite the lackluster legion rule, it looks like a lot of things came up for my Iron Warriors. Especially that Warpsmith points drop.
Yeah, the warpsmith drop is brilliant. I didn't think he was overpriced before, so, it's truly surprising to me. Also makes him viable for a cheap HQ tax.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?

Summoning does not allow you to summon Oblits or Forgefiends, it works exactly as it did before - the Daemon infantry entries simply deliver price drops and keep the rules for the (supposedly) commonest Daemons to hand, everything else in Index Chaos with Daemonic Ritual is still available for soul-sellers.

RAW WE can take Noise Marines and EC can take zerks, expect a day one FAQ on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lancelot185 wrote:
Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. My problem with this wording, is whether or not it also effects FW dreadnoughts (that aren't helbrutes). It stands to reason that it would, given that the loyalist ones do.


I thought FW Dreads got FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 00:17:36


   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




 lindsay40k wrote:
Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?

Summoning does not allow you to summon Oblits or Forgefiends, it works exactly as it did before - the Daemon infantry entries simply deliver price drops and keep the rules for the (supposedly) commonest Daemons to hand, everything else in Index Chaos with Daemonic Ritual is still available for soul-sellers.

RAW WE can take Noise Marines and EC can take zerks, expect a day one FAQ on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lancelot185 wrote:
Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. My problem with this wording, is whether or not it also effects FW dreadnoughts (that aren't helbrutes). It stands to reason that it would, given that the loyalist ones do.


I thought FW Dreads got FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?
It is incredibly bizarre that the HQ's have lost all of their mounts. I can't think of a single reason to justify that. I'll have a check now, I probably missed it!

Edit: You're right, they do have helbrute in the keywords. Thanks! I'll amend the post.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 00:22:39


 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Well, that news about the mounted lords both make me happy and sad. Happy in that now I don't have to source the parts for them. Sad that I will NEVER get to use them either.

Especially the Juggerlord. I was prepared to buy a box of skullcrushers to make a unit of them. If they're gonna suffer the Tomb Kings syndrome (i.e: technically still allowed due to the index, just never updated again) then I probably won't drop the money on that one.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

- bloodletters and daemonettes from 9 to 7
- plaguebearers from 8 to 7
- pink horrors from 10 to 6


This bodes very well for Daemon armies, definitely becoming a true horde army now.

Question is, If I'm playing a full on daemon army, do I use the unit profiles in the index or do I use the ones from Codex CSM despite the fact that I'm not playing a CSM army??

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




chaos0xomega wrote:
- bloodletters and daemonettes from 9 to 7
- plaguebearers from 8 to 7
- pink horrors from 10 to 6


This bodes very well for Daemon armies, definitely becoming a true horde army now.

Question is, If I'm playing a full on daemon army, do I use the unit profiles in the index or do I use the ones from Codex CSM despite the fact that I'm not playing a CSM army??
You'd use the newest rules for the units you're fielding. So, flesh hounds would be index rules, whilst bloodletters would be these rules. And, yes, I'm really looking forward to the daemon codex now. With the massive price drop for defilers, hopefully soul grinders will see some love.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Are we interpreting Fire Frenzy to enable a second shooting phase for Contemptors and Deredeos, because if so Night Lords plus Butcher Cannons equals goodbye MSU

   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 lindsay40k wrote:
Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?
Yeah, sorry bub. How dare you convert your models. Don't you know that's like 200% illegal? Welcome to new GW, worse than the old GW.
   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




 lindsay40k wrote:
Are we interpreting Fire Frenzy to enable a second shooting phase for Contemptors and Deredeos, because if so Night Lords plus Butcher Cannons equals goodbye MSU
It is quite ambiguous, so, until FAQ'd, I'd say it's more likely to be referring to the helbrute keyword, than to the unit. I can't think of any stratagem that only works on one specific unit. I am bias, though, because I love kheres contemptors. Could work really well on a leviathan. Twin grav flux against a nearby conscript blob suddenly becomes 42 d3 shots. Or butcher cannons could make him spit out 32 s8 shots a turn. Literally out-gunning a twin avenger knight.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Lancelot185 wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Are we interpreting Fire Frenzy to enable a second shooting phase for Contemptors and Deredeos, because if so Night Lords plus Butcher Cannons equals goodbye MSU
It is quite ambiguous, so, until FAQ'd, I'd say it's more likely to be referring to the helbrute keyword, than to the unit. I can't think of any stratagem that only works on one specific unit. I am bias, though, because I love kheres contemptors. Could work really well on a leviathan. Twin grav flux against a nearby conscript blob suddenly becomes 42 d3 shots. Or butcher cannons could make him spit out 32 s8 shots a turn. Literally out-gunning a twin avenger knight.


Hold on there, Leviathan can only take one gun arm, and between the first and second blasts from the Grav-flux there'll be a lot of Conscripts dying and making the environment soemwhat less target-rich.

Also there are many unit-specific stratagems - Predators, Vindicators, Thunderfire already. The Dreadnought one does apply to the keyword, though, so either this is an accidental oversight or else they're deliberately restricting access to this Stratagem so FW stuff can't press a win button.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 01:03:47


   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




 lindsay40k wrote:
Lancelot185 wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Are we interpreting Fire Frenzy to enable a second shooting phase for Contemptors and Deredeos, because if so Night Lords plus Butcher Cannons equals goodbye MSU
It is quite ambiguous, so, until FAQ'd, I'd say it's more likely to be referring to the helbrute keyword, than to the unit. I can't think of any stratagem that only works on one specific unit. I am bias, though, because I love kheres contemptors. Could work really well on a leviathan. Twin grav flux against a nearby conscript blob suddenly becomes 42 d3 shots. Or butcher cannons could make him spit out 32 s8 shots a turn. Literally out-gunning a twin avenger knight.


Hold on there, Leviathan can only take one gun arm, and between the first and second blasts from the Grav-flux there'll be a lot of Conscripts dying and making the environment soemwhat less target-rich.

Also there are many unit-specific stratagems - Predators, Vindicators, Thunderfire already. The Dreadnought one does apply to the keyword, though, so either this is an accidental oversight or else they're deliberately restricting access to this Stratagem so FW stuff can't press a win button.
The FAQ allows leviathans and contemptors to take two guns. True, but the predator and vindicator ones are a semi-formation, requiring a specific number of models. I can't speak for the thunderfire one. My thinking is that the fire frenzy looks more similar to the non-specific stratagems referring to heretic astartes infantry or bikers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/06 01:09:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Pink Horrors are only 6 points?

Isn't that like really good?


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




lindsay40k wrote:Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?

Summoning does not allow you to summon Oblits or Forgefiends, it works exactly as it did before - the Daemon infantry entries simply deliver price drops and keep the rules for the (supposedly) commonest Daemons to hand, everything else in Index Chaos with Daemonic Ritual is still available for soul-sellers.

RAW WE can take Noise Marines and EC can take zerks, expect a day one FAQ on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lancelot185 wrote:
Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. My problem with this wording, is whether or not it also effects FW dreadnoughts (that aren't helbrutes). It stands to reason that it would, given that the loyalist ones do.


I thought FW Dreads got FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?


Can't you take Index options for these sorts of models?

I thought the ruling was that if it had a model previously (which it could have if you previously modeled mounted lords), you could use the most recent entry that allowed that combination; so, you could use the Index rules instead of the Codex rules for including the model.

Now, I don't think you'd get any of the cool Codex stuff, but... it's a possibility?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 01:15:29


 
   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




fe40k wrote:
lindsay40k wrote:Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?

Summoning does not allow you to summon Oblits or Forgefiends, it works exactly as it did before - the Daemon infantry entries simply deliver price drops and keep the rules for the (supposedly) commonest Daemons to hand, everything else in Index Chaos with Daemonic Ritual is still available for soul-sellers.

RAW WE can take Noise Marines and EC can take zerks, expect a day one FAQ on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lancelot185 wrote:
Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. My problem with this wording, is whether or not it also effects FW dreadnoughts (that aren't helbrutes). It stands to reason that it would, given that the loyalist ones do.


I thought FW Dreads got FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?


Can't you take Index options for these sorts of models?

I thought the ruling was that if it had a model previously (which it could have if you previously modeled mounted lords), you could use the most recent entry that allowed that combination; so, you could use the Index rules instead of the Codex rules for including the model.

Now, I don't think you'd get any of the cool Codex stuff, but... it's a possibility?
If this was the case, and the models were still legal, I'd expect them to have simply included them in the codex. It wouldn't be much more than a copy and paste for them. Seeing as they haven't done this, I'd assume that they're no longer viable. Yet another thing that they'll need to FAQ.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 lindsay40k wrote:
Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?

Summoning does not allow you to summon Oblits or Forgefiends, it works exactly as it did before - the Daemon infantry entries simply deliver price drops and keep the rules for the (supposedly) commonest Daemons to hand, everything else in Index Chaos with Daemonic Ritual is still available for soul-sellers.

RAW WE can take Noise Marines and EC can take zerks, expect a day one FAQ on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lancelot185 wrote:
Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. My problem with this wording, is whether or not it also effects FW dreadnoughts (that aren't helbrutes). It stands to reason that it would, given that the loyalist ones do.


I thought FW Dreads got FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?



You can still use all the mounted HQ options for chaos that are in the Index: Chaos book. Use the points and data sheet from that book. GW said so right here on July 5th.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/


   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Lancelot185 wrote:
If this was the case, and the models were still legal, I'd expect them to have simply included them in the codex. It wouldn't be much more than a copy and paste for them. Seeing as they haven't done this, I'd assume that they're no longer viable. Yet another thing that they'll need to FAQ.


Kinda is and kinda isn't. With the SM codex, it seems like they're trying to phase out those options. They will retain rules for them for people who have modeled them but won't be updating it. Not to mention the Indexes might no longer be available in a year or two, so for newcomers it won't even be possible to legitimately get your hands on those rules anymore.

It's kinda like how technically Tomb Kings and such still have rules in AoS, but they're so out of date that they might as well not exist anymore. This does create the interesting scenario that, if by some odd chance that the old entry becomes more useful than the current one, you'd get a huge number of people flocking to get old Indexes (that at the time may no longer being sold) just to use those combos.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
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Dakka Veteran




DarthDiggler wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Having built a Palanquin and Juggerlord, and ordered a box of Hellstriders to build a Steed Lord and Sorcerer, I'm hecking unhappy right now. Seriously? Are these not even available as equip? I know AA lost every mounted character except a Captain on Bike, but we don't even get that? Whilst their Captains also gained two Primaris options? And we STILL can't figure out how to make Cataphract armour work? With boxes on the shelves showing painted examples of Word Bearers Cataphractii, and a Sorcerer on Disc having recently came out to boot?

Summoning does not allow you to summon Oblits or Forgefiends, it works exactly as it did before - the Daemon infantry entries simply deliver price drops and keep the rules for the (supposedly) commonest Daemons to hand, everything else in Index Chaos with Daemonic Ritual is still available for soul-sellers.

RAW WE can take Noise Marines and EC can take zerks, expect a day one FAQ on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lancelot185 wrote:
Legion tactics only effect infantry, bikers and helbrutes. My problem with this wording, is whether or not it also effects FW dreadnoughts (that aren't helbrutes). It stands to reason that it would, given that the loyalist ones do.


I thought FW Dreads got FAQ'd to have the Helbrute keyword?



You can still use all the mounted HQ options for chaos that are in the Index: Chaos book. Use the points and data sheet from that book. GW said so right here on July 5th.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/




Damn, it's even better than I thought:

Q. There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

A. While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.


Use Codex points costs, Legion benefits, but otherwise use the Index datasheet for equipment options.

I'm curious if this means they also get access to Chaos Codex psyker powers - I'm leaning towards yes, but it could be construed that it's not an "army wide bonus", but special selections.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/06 01:48:18


 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






The post more or less reads "if it isn't replaced, use the most recent publication and pretend that's in the codex".

Again, it's just a matter of time before the index go out of print and the newcomers will either shell out money to get old indexes, or just have to live without them.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




World Eaters: +1 to hit for the fight phase. This has been covered a lot recently because it's brilliant.

Confused now. This isn't what they get according to the WarCom article: +1 attack on the charge



I'm not convinced by your love of the +1 wound warlord trait. Given the sheer abundance of multi-damage weapons, +1 wound is... dubious, as any damage roll can render it meaningless.

Indeed, if a lord is getting smacked in the face with a power fist, thunderhammer, chain fist or anything that does 2 damage it means exactly nothing. 5 or 6 wounds doesn't matter as it takes 2 (if the weapon averages or is set to 3) or 3 failed saves to die.
The 6+ 'nah doesn't wound me' special save actually matters more than +1 wound does.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/06 02:48:00


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






There's a +1 wound Warlord Trait? I would think this would be one of the worst since on things with low wounds, it might actually push them high enough for them to be targeted outside of bubble wrap, and in anything high enough, it's just a speed bump.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Hmm. Aside from when the Indices go OOP - and, even worse, when the game rules have advanced, developed, and mutated so much that they're not compatible any more - there's the here-and-now questions of whether Index mounted Lords and Sorcerers get access to the Relics, Powers, and armoury in the Codex, and why Exalted Champions are incapable of riding motorbikes, let alone Daemonic steeds.

   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Evidently there's a case of butt-rash going around.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

Man, I still don't much care for giving bonuses against specific armies. There's no way to balance something like that. The army is just flat out better against one enemy than it is against another.

So if you only play in a small group, and none of them are imperium, you'll never use the features. Or if you only play against imperium, you'll use them all the time. Seems like poor design to me.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






It would be kinda better if it was something like the Ancient Doom for eldar in the last edition, where they granted a bonus and a drawback. This makes it relatively meaningless against other armies, while also giving some flavour when it does come into play, but gives the other side something to balance it out. However this assumes that you give a more generic effect along with it while the "hatred" part is just flavour.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in au
Liche Priest Hierophant







Exalted Champions can't even get a Jump Pack and fly around from what I saw, they're stuck walking or hitch hiking.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Exalted Champions can't even get a Jump Pack and fly around from what I saw, they're stuck walking or hitch hiking.


When/If GW comes out with new models, they'll put the rules in the box.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 argonak wrote:
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Exalted Champions can't even get a Jump Pack and fly around from what I saw, they're stuck walking or hitch hiking.


When/If GW comes out with new models, they'll put the rules in the box.


Which is totally dependent on GW specifically making an exalted champion with jump pack model. Which is pretty doubtful unless, quite seriously, someone feels like it on a whim.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Well, that news about the mounted lords both make me happy and sad. Happy in that now I don't have to source the parts for them. Sad that I will NEVER get to use them either.

Especially the Juggerlord. I was prepared to buy a box of skullcrushers to make a unit of them. If they're gonna suffer the Tomb Kings syndrome (i.e: technically still allowed due to the index, just never updated again) then I probably won't drop the money on that one.


I already had a Chaos Lord of Tzeentch, by bashing up the Dark Vengeance Lightning Claw Chosen onto the Disc from a Burning Chariot.

GW needs to realize they're not just competing with Privateer Press or Wyrd or other sources of plastic crack, and not even just against Revell and Gundam kits. They're also competing against LEGO. Half the appeal of collecting plastic crack is non-intended uses. And if their rulesets continue to dissuade coloring outside the lines...let's just say Brikwars is a thing too.
   
 
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