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I know their fluff and rules but there's this one thing about them that has baffled me the whole time:

They look bad on the table. Like, seriously bad. Let me elaborate:

1) They cost more points than the good old space marines. And what do you get with these points?

2) You get better melee stats for guys who aren't equiped for melee and instead like to shoot people with their guns. And...

3) They are able to fill weird niches and/or just do stuff a bit better than the good old marines.

4) ... Plus they are tactically inflexible. The lack of weapon options just isn't very Imperium-esque.

5) All this put together looks like a terrible combination.

With all this in mind, I have a hard time seeing why people are paranoid about these guys replacing the good old marines. Sure, the models are new, shiny and a bit taller but if you ask me, they are not a marked improvement as a whole. More like a slight variation of existing marines. But forget the minis, I'm more interested about their battlefield role.

They are bigger and stronger marines but they don't have even a single dedicated melee unit. Reivers and Aggressors don't count and you know it.
Okay, they have guns. Okay. But what do they do if they encounter a vehicle or a MC? They can shoot infantry quite well but only if there isn't too much of it? They do have a low head count because of their points value.
Intercessors look like they can... sit on an objective? And fire their slightly better bolters?
Deepstriking mini-heavy bolters sound fun (really!)... but do you really need to deep strike heavy bolters to begin with? Regular ones have a perfectly good 36" range.
Hellblasters seem decent though. Everybody likes plasmaguns. But you can't fight a whole battle with just plasmaguns. Or you can but IG/scions shoot them just as well and work for cheaper.

Is there something I don't see? Right now they look like they are support units with weird specializations that work for real marines... which is something I'm totally okay with. I hope they remain as such forever.

Do note that I don't have anything against these guys but when I hear talk about how they are these new and better marines I'm just confused. +1 A & +1W can be cool but they just seem to come with too many downsides for my taste. I'm just... indifferent and not interested.

*looks at title* Whats the deal with airline food?!

Seriously though they are pretty decent objective holders as they get 2+ in cover and they have a 30" -1 Ap weapon. That is the intercessors role

You kinda summed up why people are having a hissy fit over the NuMarines.

They really have no reason to exist. Their stats are mediocre and often overlap with existing SM units, and the effort that went into their (admittedly gorgeous) models could have been better used elsewhere. Because of this most people concluded that the Primaris Marines were made because GW realized that people have stopped buying Space Marines (probably because of the literal decades of marine releases) and have to come up with something entirely new to entice people to buy them again.

The last part about the resources going elsewhere is a sore point for a lot, since Eldar, Chaos Space Marines, various IG regiments, Orks and SoBs are still using miniatures dating back to 4th edition, some even older. This showed that there was resources to make kits for those factions and GW simply chose not to.

Airline food? I actually do have some observations about it too...

Anyway, because of the reasons I've stated above, I have no incentive to buy these newfangled marines. I bet I could forge a way more effective force out of older marines. More numerous, more varied, more specialized for given roles and... with way more power weapons.

I bought a force of them, but I doubt they'll ever see play. I got em purely for display purposes (they are pretty nice models).

From a powergamer's standpoint, there is little to no reason to use the new marines.

They exist solely to disprove the theory that GW always gives new models the best rules.

Based on scale change between Nu and OlMarines my guess is we're in the first couple steps in an eventual replacement of the entire Space Marine line - in rules and models.

Otherwise at present... Intercessors make great objective taking/holding troops, and probably top the list of the new Primaris units. Inceptors seem decent but expensive... Reivers are okay harassment Troops, but the lack of Special Weapons or good assault weapon choices really seems to hinder them.

Will be interesting to see how GW expands them in the eventual future, but I do think they're harming their ultimate sales levels by not prioritizing updating some of the armies/factions that have languished (SoB, Eldar, etc., as already mentioned). The current Codex/Codicies a month focus likely puts a Dark Eldar-scale redesign further down the road, too.

In my opinion, they play like Space Marines -should-, just somewhat overcosted.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
In my opinion, they play like Space Marines -should-, just somewhat overcosted.

Special forces that choose to act without any sort of toolkit to deal with the challenges they face?

Voss wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
In my opinion, they play like Space Marines -should-, just somewhat overcosted.

Special forces that choose to act without any sort of toolkit to deal with the challenges they face?

Big, tough infantry-slaying super-warriors that act in small numbers, supported by other forces with all the tanks and aircraft.

My guess is that the current space marine molds are reaching their end of life, and they didn't just want to make new molds of the old models. They wanted to fix some problems first.

Unfortunately, you can't have two different molds of the same product floating around. It's confusing.

Enter Primaris Marines.

In an edition or two, they'll announce that all marines are primaris, and drop the "primaris" part.

Then we'll have the "old short marine models", and the "normal marine models" that are taller.

I'll put my money on the fact that the new marines will eventually replace the old ones. They allow each unit to focus on something like a lot of other armies do. It makes them much easier to balance that way and make adjustments. They are also the scale people like and with the beefed up stats, it makes them more marine like.
I think its a peak at the future for marine players of all players, and I welcome it. I hope they look at Chaos the same way eventually since their models and rules are so outdated and bland.

I really would like to run inceptors inforce, but 60 pts each for the leaded and 86pts each for the unleaded version is just crazy. And if you are deep striking, you are running all of them outside of any bonuses provided by HQ and did I mention one costs as many as most troops choices?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
And if you are deep striking, you are running all of them outside of any bonuses provided by HQ and did I mention one costs as many as most troops choices?

Captain or Lieutenant in Jump or Terminator Armor? Though I guess Primaris do not have either of these?

I just think they look like garbage, I really cant stand the new aesthetic.

The new marines will eventually get CC specialists and long range support. It may be an year from now, but it is pretty much expected. The conceptual role of the new marine is to answer the demand for fully specialized SM squads in 40k. Has no one been witness to the comparison with aspect warriors, which have traditionally been the object of envy because of their loadout?

Personally I'll only be including Primaris in Gravis armour in my exorcists.

If they made them plain better than squatmarines in this edition, a lot of rage would happen. Wait till the next edition, there will be wider model line for primaris and lot of buffs, while the squat marines eventually will taste the fate of Empire force from WFB.

Silver144 wrote:
If they made them plain better than squatmarines in this edition, a lot of rage would happen. Wait till the next edition, there will be wider model line for primaris and lot of buffs, while the squat marines eventually will taste the fate of Empire force from WFB.

There was a rumour floating around that these were originally going to replace the line but instead are now an addition.

As the OP said, right now they have no role. They are just regular marunes with almost the same guns, but a bit less efficient. It is clear, that they are intended to be the new marine line and replace the old one. Just wait some years.

Silver144 wrote:
As the OP said, right now they have no role. They are just regular marunes with almost the same guns, but a bit less efficient. It is clear, that they are intended to be the new marine line and replace the old one. Just wait some years.

I disagree with this, it seems clear to me GW is deliebratly doing everything they can to AVOID "replacing" old marines. to the point where they have , likely, purposefully hobbled Primaris Marines in some areas.

GW I think wants to avoid a "they're replacing marines" Panic.

Am I wrong or do they have double the wounds and a 30" range -1 AP for only 25 more points? That seems to be a solid value if you are wanting cheap objective holders, that are very resilient and can provide significant anti infantry firepower.

I guess anyone, who saw them on table will agree, that they are not design to stay alongside with regular marine.

broxus wrote:
Am I wrong or do they have double the wounds and a 30" range -1 AP for only 25 more points? That seems to be a solid value if you are wanting cheap objective holders, that are very resilient and can provide significant anti infantry firepower.

An Intercessor is only 20pts, not 25; to a Tactical Marine's 13.

I actually like inceptors on the table. Taking a squad of 6 gives you a single org slot 12 heavy bolters that are shorter range, but have deep strike-immunity to damage before they get to shoot once, and could strike from good angles, for 360

Taking the same amount of heavy bolter in dev squads takes 3 heavy slots, and runs 315. For shaving 45 points off (roughly) the same firepower, you gain 3 wounds, lose a toughness, lose the ability to move and fire at full BS, increase your deployment count by 2, lose a lot of mobility and the FLY keyword, and give your opponent the ability to hide out of obvious LOS/range before their first shots, or kill them before their first shots, and lose a couple s4 melee attacks assuming the sergeants of the devs aren't packing some CC heat.

I think that's a pretty nice exchange for 45 points.

The devastators have the added advantage of not looking like fat, floating babies on skis, though.

Against multi dmg guns you gain even more wounds with devs.

My guess is that the current space marine molds are reaching their end of life, and they didn't just want to make new molds of the old models. They wanted to fix some problems first.

Unfortunately, you can't have two different molds of the same product floating around. It's confusing.

Enter Primaris Marines.

In an edition or two, they'll announce that all marines are primaris, and drop the "primaris" part.

Then we'll have the "old short marine models", and the "normal marine models" that are taller.

My guess as well. I think as time goes on we will see them slowly expand the Primaris range while also NOT adding to the traditional marines. The Blood Angels/Space Wolves etc., will get their special snowflake versions in campaign books and we will slowly see the battlefield roles overlap to where there becomes less and less need for the old "squatty" marines. A few years from now (maybe a little longer), "how big is your Marine" and "Marine measuring contests" will become the way we determine the OGs of table top war games.

But for now, I agree that GW is trying very hard to NOT cause a panic. I think they learned a lot of lessons from the AoS rollout and would prefer to not irritate those of us who have been collecting Marines for all 30 years of the game's history by just immediately saying "no more squatties". Sometmes it's best to rip the bandage off quickly, other times you need to go veeeeerrrrrrrryyyyyyyy slow. lol

Just a quick point in relation to the comparison between Tactical marines and Intercessors.

If you are just looking for objective campers a Tactical squad of 10 will give you the same amount of wounds for an extra 30 points with boltguns actually more efficient at anti infantry than Bolt rifles at 1-12" and 16-24" range even when accounting for the -1AP. I've excluded 1" as that is combat range at you wouldn't be able to fire. Yes the rifles have 30" range but over a total 29" engagement range Intercessors only have the advantage at 9 of those inches as at the others weight of dice is more likely to strip wounds than the AP-1. With the ability to then add in a combi, special and heavy weapon on a Tactical squad that if, it is objective camping won't suffer -1 to hit on the heavy weapon, personally I am happy to pay 30 points for that. You could also change that to 2 5 man units with an extra combi option as well to become nigh on immune to morale and "Hey presto!" Tacticals are even more beneficial.

I look at this and then think "what actually is the point of Primaris?". Yes they may be slightly cheaper but if during the game a need arises for that unit to leave the objective they are on and go do something else the Tacticals become much more impressive.