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I was thinking of picking up an Index, but the reps at my FLGS basically told me it's not worth the money because so many of the rules are obsolete as soon as the Codices come out. Apparently not only are they rewriting most of the rules, the Index rules are considerably weaker than what they're being replaced with.

Is that everyone else's take as well?

I should've known the idea of GW making something MORE affordable was too good to be true. Can't say I'm not annoyed that they charged 20 bucks a pop for a rules set that they were planning on phasing out mere months after it hit the shelves. Most companies would've just made a temporary rules set available online for free.

Depends on a lot we don't know. Indexes are what you use to play, and unless you are planning to play SM, GK, Chaos Marines or Death Guard, we don't have a timetable.

Now, if you have an, ah, "advanced" copy from "somewhere," you might consider holding off.

It's a bit of a lottery.

A. They explained before hand what they were doing and how they would do it. The only thing they didn't know was how long it would be between the release of the Index and the Codex.

B. They have only released Space Marines so far and are coming out with Grey Knights and Chaos Space Marines soon. So buying an Index would depend on which army you wanted.

If you are playing Orks, Tyranids, Tau or Necrons......you may be waiting a year for a Codex, so that Index looks good to me.

Getting tired of the sheep crying about having to pay to play......either pay it or refuse to......end of story. (Not pointing to OP on this matter) :-)

 Da-Rock wrote:

Getting tired of the sheep crying about having to pay to play......either pay it or refuse to......end of story. (Not pointing to OP on this matter) :-)

The refrain is a bit tiring (not the OP's fault, he's just asking for advice).

This is not a cheap hobby.

 fallinq wrote:
I was thinking of picking up an Index, but the reps at my FLGS basically told me it's not worth the money because so many of the rules are obsolete as soon as the Codices come out. Apparently not only are they rewriting most of the rules, the Index rules are considerably weaker than what they're being replaced with.

Is that everyone else's take as well?

I should've known the idea of GW making something MORE affordable was too good to be true. Can't say I'm not annoyed that they charged 20 bucks a pop for a rules set that they were planning on phasing out mere months after it hit the shelves. Most companies would've just made a temporary rules set available online for free.

You miss out on some legacy stuff

otherwise besides vanilla and chaos and a bit of greyknights 20$ to dick around and play for a month to a year is not that big of a deal.

The indexes are temporary rules that players can use in the considerable time it takes GW to finalize and publish the 20-25 codices. Also, launching beta-versions of the codices should give some valuable feedback to the codex-writers.

And yes, it would be nice if GW published the indexes online for free. A man can dream.

If you want to play until you get a codex, buy it. If not, don't.

 fallinq wrote:
I was thinking of picking up an Index, but the reps at my FLGS basically told me it's not worth the money because so many of the rules are obsolete as soon as the Codices come out. Apparently not only are they rewriting most of the rules, the Index rules are considerably weaker than what they're being replaced with.

Is that everyone else's take as well?

I should've known the idea of GW making something MORE affordable was too good to be true. Can't say I'm not annoyed that they charged 20 bucks a pop for a rules set that they were planning on phasing out mere months after it hit the shelves. Most companies would've just made a temporary rules set available online for free.

Depends what army(armies) you play. Past Death Guard it's a bit of a guess as to what is coming next, but right now, if you play marines, it definitely isn't worthwhile.
Guard and AdMech are probably coming up shortly (this year). Other than that, it becomes a bet.

Don't believe anyone who says the Indexes are temporary. You will still need them for units/options that have not been updated.

Take Marines for example, Librarians on Bikes and Twin Autocannon Dreadnoughts are not options in the new Codex, but they are still legal by using the Index. Considering that both of those options are still popular, the Indexes will still be "worth it" for many players

-

I have bought most of them - one because I have multiple armies and two it gives you a little insight into other armies you do not own/play.

My two cents,

CB

So far I'm rather happy with having bought Xenos 2 and purposefully didn't buy Imperium 1 due to the (correct) rumor that Codex: Space Marines would be released shortly after 8th.

If you play Xenos of any kind, it's worth getting the index of your army as, for the foreseeable future they're not getting an update. In addition, a lot of legacy choices that didn't have models (like the various bike-mounted characters) apparently are not getting updated in the rules for the foreseeable future. If they don't come out with model kits for them, then the Indexes might be the only rules they'll ever get, so if your army is gonna have one of these, it'd be worth investing in one just in case the Indexes go out of print.

Can't really add to what's been said. Though as far as I know the books released so far haven't deviated much from the Indexes in terms of rules so if you want to practice with an army then get an Index since they're likely very similar to whatever you'll be playing when the Codex is released, just with added stuff. The codexes mainly add more stratagems, relics and psychic powers.

While the datasheets in an index do get invalidated once the Codex comes out, you can still use the Index datasheets. So for example, the Space Marine Codex removed the Lascannon/Plasma gun option for Razorbacks, but you can still use the data sheet in the Index instead.

Each Index covers several different armies, I would Imagine that the Codex release cycle will be done in such a way as to maximize the Index Shelf life. The Space Marine Codex just came out, so I would imagine that it will be awhile before we see Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels codexes.

Like many have said. It depends on a lot of factors

Do you already own an army?

If so you may want to own the index for legacy units/upgrade options.

If you don't care about those options, which army do you own?

We only have releases for 3 codices so far and based on the Chapter approved article (book releasing around Christmas) it is safe to assume it may be a while for some factions like Orks and Drukari (dark elder).

If one of the released books covers your army (SM, Chaos, GK) you may want to skip the index if you don't own/care about the legacy units. In the case of Chaos you may still want to own the index for using the daemons found there.

If you don't own an army, what faction do you want to play?

If not one already released you may want to buy the index.

If you are not looking to play anytime soon, you may want to hold off on the index.

has there been any hint of what we might see and a timeline?

Codex Space Marines already out
Chaos and GK this Saturday
Deathguard look to be next (end of August)
So that leaves 2+ books in September (I'd expect an Imperial and maybe Thousand Sons)

but no real solid info beyond that right?
Specifically I'm looking for Dark Angels and Eldar of all factions

I bought all the indexes and don't regret it. Just something to keep in mind, not all datasheets and models listed in the indexes will be included in codexs.

If you look at the Space marine codex its missing about 15 datasheets which should be included in the Space marine codex. GW has already said that although these units are not listed, you can still use the index datasheets.

 bullyboy wrote:
has there been any hint of what we might see and a timeline?

Codex Space Marines already out
Chaos and GK this Saturday
Deathguard look to be next (end of August)
So that leaves 2+ books in September (I'd expect an Imperial and maybe Thousand Sons)

but no real solid info beyond that right?
Specifically I'm looking for Dark Angels and Eldar of all factions

I mean my assumption would be that the other marine books will be early on because they replicate a lot of info already in the SM book so they are easy updates to have done.

In the Chapter Approved article they mention Orks, Drukhari, Necrons. as units that don't yet have a codex. While this might just be part of a list of things that are SM, Chaos, GK, it could also mean that those codices won't be released until after chapter approved, which is due out in December.

To me it would also have made sense to release daemons soon after CSM, but the inclusion of the Daemon troops in that book give me the impression that those might not be coming soon.

 bullyboy wrote:
has there been any hint of what we might see and a timeline?

Codex Space Marines already out
Chaos and GK this Saturday
Deathguard look to be next (end of August)
So that leaves 2+ books in September (I'd expect an Imperial and maybe Thousand Sons)

but no real solid info beyond that right?
Specifically I'm looking for Dark Angels and Eldar of all factions

I was thinking about this and with Mortarion being released it's likely that either Dark Angels or Space Wolves will be around Sept/October for Lionel or Russ to balance out the Imperial/Chaos primarchs.

There were leaked versions for download a few months ago.
You might find someone local willing to share.
If I had just one army and worried about the money then I would find a paper copy of units that I used and make copies or scans for use till the codex arrives.

I simply bought all five of them (9 if you include the Forge World ones). Why? info. A lot of it. Immediately. And I had those leaked files as well, but I deleted them, as I bought the index books. For this, one might consider me to be a GW Fanboy. And I probably am. But I am also somewhat oldfashioned, and I like the feel of skimming through the pages, as opposed to swiping my way through a 'book'.

I use those indexes for all manner of things. First of all, I have been collecting, building and painting armies ever since Rogue Trader (1st edition). As such, I have a lot. There once was a time, when people asked me what armies I played, and the easy answer was "No Dark Eldar, and no Orks." By now I have a couple of models for those as well, so I can literally field a small patrol for almost every army there is. In the mean time Imperial Knights appeared, and I have yet to get one of those, so there is actually one army I cannot field anything from. And although some codices appear really fast, others might still be off the radar for some time. This way I can play with every army I own.

Second, while the Codex Space marines is already here, some Space Marines units aren't in it. This second point is primarily aimed at those legacy models not in the Codex, but still in the Index. There were, like, 15 entries missing in the Space Marines Codex? Shame! Baah, humbug! Whatever. I can still field my Legion of the Damned squads.

Also, as a third point I repeat something else that has been said; info on your opponents. While my T'au collection is very limited (some fire warriors, some kroot, a couple of basic suits, and some characters) I now have the current stats of all armies for which the Codex didn't appear yet. When an opponent plays Eldar, I can look things up. Necrons? I can help my friend with those too. Tyranids? Imperial Guard? Sisters? I can tell you something about those too.

Three reasons why I thought they were worth buying.
(Not to mention I got them at a discount, off course.)

Don't forget to take a look at the FAQs (version 1.1 now) and the Designer's Commentary.

The quality of the editing has been rather poor so far, and they've errata'd a lot of stuff.

 Galef wrote:
Don't believe anyone who says the Indexes are temporary. You will still need them for units/options that have not been updated.

Take Marines for example, Librarians on Bikes and Twin Autocannon Dreadnoughts are not options in the new Codex, but they are still legal by using the Index. Considering that both of those options are still popular, the Indexes will still be "worth it" for many players

-

except for one small problem, GW have said that your army comes from one book. If you're using codex marines, you cannot take librarian on a bike from the index. It's not mix and match. If the bulk of your army is from the codex, then the only way to take a librarian on bike, is through the codex. Want around that?? Well, I suppose you could take one from the index in a detachment of legion of the damned.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Don't believe anyone who says the Indexes are temporary. You will still need them for units/options that have not been updated.

Take Marines for example, Librarians on Bikes and Twin Autocannon Dreadnoughts are not options in the new Codex, but they are still legal by using the Index. Considering that both of those options are still popular, the Indexes will still be "worth it" for many players

-

except for one small problem, GW have said that your army comes from one book. If you're using codex marines, you cannot take librarian on a bike from the index. It's not mix and match. If the bulk of your army is from the codex, then the only way to take a librarian on bike, is through the codex. Want around that?? Well, I suppose you could take one from the index in a detachment of legion of the damned.

FAQ says otherwise.

Unless you are playing competitively, the codexes are really optional. Even then, many armies (primarily Xenos) won't have their codexes for some time to come.

Honestly, you could probably pick up the indexes and the strategem/psychic/objective cards that will drop with each codex and you'll be pretty much up to speed with everyone else.

Personally, I'm planning to play using the indexes only, and do not intend to buy the codexes (well, maaaaaybe Tyranid & Tau, but only if some drool-worthy models drop as well).

Depends.

If you play pure IG, I guess our codex will be among the priorities after the first four codexes*. If you play other imperial factions... who knows? If you play xenos... who knows?

*Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Grey Knights and Death Guard

I bought all the indexes, FW and GW and I don't regret any of it. No, not even the FW ones.

 fallinq wrote:
I was thinking of picking up an Index, but the reps at my FLGS basically told me it's not worth the money because so many of the rules are obsolete as soon as the Codices come out. Apparently not only are they rewriting most of the rules, the Index rules are considerably weaker than what they're being replaced with.

Most important question is what armies do you play ? If you only play Space Marines, Grey Knights, Chaos Marines, or Death Guard, then yeah, just buy the codex.

The indexes cover the entirety of what was available to play in 7th edition, and we'll only have 10 codexes by years end.

The index stat lines are almost universally identicial. The Codexes add Strategems, Faction Rules, Relics, and point adjustments. So yes, the Codex version of each is likely better than the index version. They need to be to get people to upgrade to codexes.

IFC_Casting wrote:
I bought all the indexes, FW and GW and I don't regret any of it. No, not even the FW ones.

I mean no offense when I ask this:

How many of them you need to play your armies?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Don't believe anyone who says the Indexes are temporary. You will still need them for units/options that have not been updated.

Take Marines for example, Librarians on Bikes and Twin Autocannon Dreadnoughts are not options in the new Codex, but they are still legal by using the Index. Considering that both of those options are still popular, the Indexes will still be "worth it" for many players

-

except for one small problem, GW have said that your army comes from one book. If you're using codex marines, you cannot take librarian on a bike from the index. It's not mix and match. If the bulk of your army is from the codex, then the only way to take a librarian on bike, is through the codex. Want around that?? Well, I suppose you could take one from the index in a detachment of legion of the damned.

FAQ says otherwise.

Yeah, I think he might be thinking of 7th or something, as the FAQ literally addressed and says the opposite of what he is talking about.