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That is essentially the GK chapter tactic. You might notice they don't have a chapter tactic.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
He clearly means that the same dude still can't case the same spell multiple times, but that each dude after the first can cast again at increasing difficulty.

Your right not sure why my brain went there. But still imagine Purifier Squads all casting thier AOE Smite and Vortex of doom every turn.

Lets clear up some other misconceptions here.

I am NOT proposing that you change how many powers a unit can manifest. Simply wether or not the same power can be manifested more than once a turn.

Purfiers know Smite and 1 other power. Purifiers can manifest 1 power in each psychic phase and can deny 1 power.

I am NOT saying that Purifiers should instead be able to manifest 2 powers a turn. I AM saying that if you have 3 units of Purfiers and they all want to manifest Vortex (WC value 8) that the first unit could cast it normally, the second would have a -1 (effectively making it WC 9) and the last would have a -2 (making it WC 10). They would NOT be able to cast both Smite and Vortex each. Simply that by one casting Vortex it would not remove the ability for every other unit in the army from casting it. By the time the 5th unit in the army attempts to cast Vortex they would only succeed on a 12 which would also cause a perils and be incredibly unlikely to go off at all.


People are correct that psychic focus does not scale at all and is bull gak for that reason. It hinders psychic heavy armies. It's nonsense. It's also true that there needs to be practical limitations. A escalation of difficulty and the inability for buffs/debuffs to stack are a practical soft cap that allows psychic armies to scale up with the higher point games without making them disgustingly powerful.

A minor niggle, but I would suggest that instead of giving a -1 modifier to the roll, instead actually say "After each attempt, the Warp Charge value increases by 1.

Yes, this sounds like it results in the same outcome, but I mention it because of how hit modifiers effect things like plasma Gets Hot. If you + or - a psychic roll, what would happen about the perils results? I guess it might be that a double-6 is still perils, even though it only "results" as a 10 instead of a 12. I don't have my codex to hand to actually check the wording of the psychic test rules.

Either way, i just thought it would be easier/tidier to modify the WC number by 1 each time. Maybe not.

I still think if you're going to allow multiple castings of a power it is best to go back and look at the powers again.

Some of them are super dumb if you can cast them more than once, even with a -1 to the roll. My superheavy tank company could bring like 6 Astropaths along just to have a whole bunch of goes at making my Baneblades gain a 2+ armour save. Having one with a 2+ is hilarious enough, having all 3 with a 2+ just sounds really stupid.

 Xenomancers wrote:
That is essentially the GK chapter tactic. You might notice they don't have a chapter tactic.

This. Meaning you can't bring assassins in your GK detachment anymore.

Not a huge deal though because any Imperium list should have a battalion of Imperial Guard anyway. But still.

In reality a competitive GK list won't be spamming that many smites. You're going to have a lot of vehicles - storm ravens, storm hawk, assault cannon razorbacks... none of these have psychic pilot.

This idea that GK are dropping in and casting a billion smites is just not how the army plays. In reality it's more likely to see maybe 3-4 smites, tops, from a GK army in a turn. because a lot of the units that can cast smite, would prefer to cast other powers.

Draigo knows 2 powers. He will probably be casting Purge Soul. I usually also equip him with Gate of Infinity to bail when needed, or for mobility in general. So he might smite.

GMNDK knows 2 powers unless you take lore master. He'll be casting Vortex, and Sanctuary.

Individual squads will know powers useful to them, or their transports. Depending on their role, they may not be even close enough to make use of casting smite. For instance, Psilencer Purgators need to be within 24" of their target. So if you're 13-24" away, can't even cast smite anyway.

10 man squads will probably cast hammerhand on themselves, if you have any.

I mean the list goes on. This idea that we'd be pumping out 15 smites a turn just isn't true.

If i could make one minor change to Grey Knights - aside from updating points values, and things like that, or sweeping changes that redefine the game - i would make psychic ammunition and psybolt ammunition cost 1cp each, instead of 2. it's a minor change that would have a huge benefit. we could be using these both every turn. Changing our smite to real smite would help, for absolute certain, but that's unlikely to happen, and in reality we don't have that many psykers to make true use of it.

GW has already struck down our best stratagem - limiting it to 1 turn use only. Conscripts are still 3 points. GW has no intention of making GK's good. When GK are good people just bring up fifth edition - "not this again - GK's shouldn't even bee a real army" nonsense.

Niiru wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
He clearly means that the same dude still can't case the same spell multiple times, but that each dude after the first can cast again at increasing difficulty.

Your right not sure why my brain went there. But still imagine Purifier Squads all casting thier AOE Smite and Vortex of doom every turn.

Lets clear up some other misconceptions here.

I am NOT proposing that you change how many powers a unit can manifest. Simply wether or not the same power can be manifested more than once a turn.

Purfiers know Smite and 1 other power. Purifiers can manifest 1 power in each psychic phase and can deny 1 power.

I am NOT saying that Purifiers should instead be able to manifest 2 powers a turn. I AM saying that if you have 3 units of Purfiers and they all want to manifest Vortex (WC value 8) that the first unit could cast it normally, the second would have a -1 (effectively making it WC 9) and the last would have a -2 (making it WC 10). They would NOT be able to cast both Smite and Vortex each. Simply that by one casting Vortex it would not remove the ability for every other unit in the army from casting it. By the time the 5th unit in the army attempts to cast Vortex they would only succeed on a 12 which would also cause a perils and be incredibly unlikely to go off at all.


People are correct that psychic focus does not scale at all and is bull gak for that reason. It hinders psychic heavy armies. It's nonsense. It's also true that there needs to be practical limitations. A escalation of difficulty and the inability for buffs/debuffs to stack are a practical soft cap that allows psychic armies to scale up with the higher point games without making them disgustingly powerful.

A minor niggle, but I would suggest that instead of giving a -1 modifier to the roll, instead actually say "After each attempt, the Warp Charge value increases by 1.

Yes, this sounds like it results in the same outcome, but I mention it because of how hit modifiers effect things like plasma Gets Hot. If you + or - a psychic roll, what would happen about the perils results? I guess it might be that a double-6 is still perils, even though it only "results" as a 10 instead of a 12. I don't have my codex to hand to actually check the wording of the psychic test rules.

Either way, i just thought it would be easier/tidier to modify the WC number by 1 each time. Maybe not.

Perils is on the roll of a double 1 or double 6, not the result of a 2 or a 12.

 Imateria wrote:

Perils is on the roll of a double 1 or double 6, not the result of a 2 or a 12.

*Unless you play orks

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Perils is on the roll of a double 1 or double 6, not the result of a 2 or a 12.

*Unless you play orks

Silly Kap'n. Orks are not a real army!

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Perils is on the roll of a double 1 or double 6, not the result of a 2 or a 12.

*Unless you play orks

Silly Kap'n. Orks are not a real army!

Much like Grey Knights in that regard!

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Perils is on the roll of a double 1 or double 6, not the result of a 2 or a 12.

*Unless you play orks

Silly Kap'n. Orks are not a real army!