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This is my first attempt at a chaos list. The Idea is to abuse morale issues as much as possible, definitely open to as much feedback on the idea as possible.
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [121 PL, 1999pts] ++ Legion: Night Lords
Daemon Prince with Wings: Malefic talon
. Nurgle: Warptime
Daemon Prince with Wings: Malefic talon
. Nurgle: Warptime
Chaos Space Marines: Mark of Nurgle
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
Chaos Terminators: Icon of Despair, Mark of Nurgle
. Chaos Terminator Champion: Combi-melta, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-flamer, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-flamer, Power axe
. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer, Power axe
Raptors: Icon of Despair, Mark of Nurgle
. 4x Raptor
. Raptor Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
. Raptor w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Raptor w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Raptors: Icon of Despair, Mark of Nurgle
. 4x Raptor
. Raptor Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
. Raptor w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Raptor w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Raptors: Icon of Despair, Mark of Nurgle
. 4x Raptor
. Raptor Champion: Combi-plasma, Power axe
. Raptor w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Raptor w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
Chaos Predator: Havoc launcher, Mark of Nurgle, Twin lascannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter
Chaos Predator: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Nurgle, Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter
Heldrake: Baleflamer, Heldrake claws, Mark of Nurgle
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/29 23:47:36
valdier wrote: This is my first attempt at a chaos list. The Idea is to abuse morale issues as much as possible, definitely open to as much feedback on the idea as possible.
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++
+ HQ +
Legion: Night Lords
Daemon Prince with Wings: Malefic talon, Warp bolter (x2) . Nurgle: Miasma of Pestilence
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines: Icon of Despair, 4x Marine w/ Boltgun, Mark of Nurgle (x2) . Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Combi-flamer
Plaguebearers: Daemonic Icon, 25x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden
+ Elites +
Helbrute: Helbrute fist, Mark of Nurgle, Power scourge
+ Fast Attack +
Raptors: Mark of Nurgle, 4x Raptor (x3) . Raptor Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
+ Heavy Support +
Chaos Predator: Combi-bolter, Mark of Nurgle, Predator autocannon. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter (x2)
+ Flyer +
Heldrake: Baleflamer, Heldrake claws, Mark of Nurgle
+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Nurgle (x2)
I am curious what people with more experience than me say about this, as I've also been looking into a Night Lords build as an option for my next project. I'm worried that, while it's a nice fluffy mechanic, it wouldn't actually work in a real game as so many other armies have abilities that totally ignore leadership/morale.
- Commissars mean IG only lose 1 model, even if they lose the roll by 10
- Ork Boyz have leadership of 30 (or very high) unless you have already wiped out all of the horde of boys in the local area
- Tau ignore morale on 6's (though thats a bit less likely at least)
- Tyranids ignore morale because of synapse
- Even Gretchen only lose 3 models maximum if they have a runtherd nearby, and they would lose those 3 models with or without nightlords lol.
However I may just be thinking too much of these abilities, it might be that they're less common or less useful than I think. Seems it will work against space marines and necrons at least.
However, on a more helpful note - Take a look at Forgeworld Butcher Cannons. They give -2 leadership to units they cause wounds on. They're on my potential Night Lords list
Your theme seems to be dropping in the raptors to cause morale checks after you damage as many opponents as possible. But you are nurgle, so your raptors are 9.1 inches away. So, you need to rely on them making the charge of 9 inches into combat.
And your raptors have no special weapons nor does the champion have any power fist, or even a power axe. How are you going to even cause any damage to make him roll a morale test? From your predator shooting? All those bolt pistols and chainswords on your raptors may end up doing zero damage after getting all saved by armor saves.
Your helldrake can't do all the heavy lifting by itself, its just one model and it won't kill much with its melee. Only its baleflamer will do some damage.
You can't take two warp bolters on your daemon prince (unless I am missing something).
Basically, your alpha strike is going to be weak, because your raptors won't do much, so its just your helldrake and your predator tank shooting.
Your hellbrute, daemon prince, and Rhinos will all take at least one turn moving up the board. (Unless you warptime the Prince). But the Daemon Prince isn't magnus. You charge that one solo daemon prince with warptime alone up the board into combat first turn, its going to die by focus fire, or counter attack melee after that. And then you just lost your warlord.
Basically, unless your opponent has no idea have to bubble his army, I think your army will struggle honestly. It doesn't do enough damage. You have too many different elements all doing different things. You have stuff which are alpha strike (the raptors, helldrake). Then you have a second wave of hellbrute, two rhinos, daemon prince. Then you have one Tank shooting, and you have 25 plague bearers sitting at home.
Its fluffy, and you are tactically flexible. But against dedicated armies and a heavier bias on shooting, you will be destroyed. They will focus down and destroy each element of your army one turn at a time. Just my opinion.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Your theme seems to be dropping in the raptors to cause morale checks after you damage as many opponents as possible. But you are nurgle, so your raptors are 9.1 inches away. So, you need to rely on them making the charge of 9 inches into combat.
And your raptors have no special weapons nor does the champion have any power fist, or even a power axe. How are you going to even cause any damage to make him roll a morale test? From your predator shooting? All those bolt pistols and chainswords on your raptors may end up doing zero damage after getting all saved by armor saves.
Your helldrake can't do all the heavy lifting by itself, its just one model and it won't kill much with its melee. Only its baleflamer will do some damage.
You can't take two warp bolters on your daemon prince (unless I am missing something).
Basically, your alpha strike is going to be weak, because your raptors won't do much, so its just your helldrake and your predator tank shooting.
Your hellbrute, daemon prince, and Rhinos will all take at least one turn moving up the board. (Unless you warptime the Prince). But the Daemon Prince isn't magnus. You charge that one solo daemon prince with warptime alone up the board into combat first turn, its going to die by focus fire, or counter attack melee after that. And then you just lost your warlord.
Basically, unless your opponent has no idea have to bubble his army, I think your army will struggle honestly. It doesn't do enough damage. You have too many different elements all doing different things. You have stuff which are alpha strike (the raptors, helldrake). Then you have a second wave of hellbrute, two rhinos, daemon prince. Then you have one Tank shooting, and you have 25 plague bearers sitting at home.
Its fluffy, and you are tactically flexible. But against dedicated armies and a heavier bias on shooting, you will be destroyed. They will focus down and destroy each element of your army one turn at a time. Just my opinion.
I've updated the editing on it to make it make more sense. There are 12 raptors in total, 3 groups of 4. 2 Demon Princes with Wings, 2 predators, 2 rhinos, etc, etc.
So Alpha is 2 predators, 2 rhinos, 12 raptors and 2 Demon Princes.
Your opinion is totally valid and I am open to suggestions. I like the idea of going for morale dropping, suggestions? (Also new codex next week so that changes a lot)
lol, ok so everything is X2? Ok, I wondered why it looked kinda bare at 2000 points. Ok, now it makes more sense.
3 groups of 5 raptors you mean right? My point stands. With no special weapons equipped, its just 5 pistol shots per group. So, the 3 groups of raptors just do 15 pistol attacks when they drop in, which wouldn't really kill anything. Against armor or infantry in cover, would be lucky if you did one to two wounds in the end after all 15 have fired.
Is your army close combat or shooty or both? The way I see it, the CC won't get into combat quickly enough, and the shooty isn't shooty enough. If you meet a truly shooty list, they will have the ability to take out 2 predators quite easily within one round. Then you would have lost all your shooting. But melee wise, your melee doesn't hit hard enough (not until your two princes get into close combat). In combat, your 3 raptor squads do 30 attacks at AP 0. unless you are killing fodder, it won't phase most armies.
The princes are killy, but they will get focused down if they don't have enough support.
I would change out your two hellbrutes for something else (either shooty or alpha strike melee). They take too long to get into close combat. Decide if you want to make your army more shooty or more CC. Then swop the two hellbrutes for that.
For example. If you changed the two hellbrutes into a big squad of Terminators with special weapons, and you loaded some plasma or melta on your raptors. Then your deep strike would now carry a lot more teeth.
Alternatively, if you feel that your plague bearers form a good enough bubble. Then swop your two hellbrutes for something shooty like obliterators, havocs or another predator tank.
Your daemon princes need some sort of escort as they charge up the field, else they will die to being focus fired. Unless you want to warptime them up, one at a time. (You can only cast one warptime per turn).
The two Rhinos with bare troops in them seem like a waste of points. I am not sure I want to spend at least 70 points for a Rhino in order to transport under 80 points of basic CSM. If they were used to transport something killy like berserkers or chosen filled with meltas or plasma, then they would be more worth it.
As an opponent, I think I wouldn't even bother shooting at the Rhinos. because there is nothing in them worth killing. If you get tabled, your objective takers won't matter. And its going to be easy to shoot you off the table, because your army comes in waves.
Actually, if its just to fill up the three troop requirement, why not just go with 3 groups of 10 plaguebearers, and use the points saved from not having the two Rhinos and CSM for more killy stuff.
Your army comes in waves, and makes it easy for an opponent to pick off piecemeal. First wave is 3 squads of raptors and a helldrake, which are all terrible at close combat. Second wave is the daemon princes and hellbrutes (who can't get there until turn two or maybe even turn three), and possibly the two rhino CSM (which won't do much). And then your shooting from your two Predators (which is not a lot of shooting frankly). You will likely end up feeding your army piecemeal into the grinder.
So, my suggestions, decide if you want to go shooty, or go close combat. (I would suggest go more shooty). If you are going more shooty, then change your two hellbrutes, two Rhinos with CSM all into something more shooty, and put more special weapons on your raptors. each squad can take two special weapons and the champion also can take a combi plasma or melta. So, thats three special weapons on a squad of five. And then split your big group of plaguebearers into three groups of ten to make up the troop choices.
Eldenfirefly wrote: lol, ok so everything is X2? Ok, I wondered why it looked kinda bare at 2000 points. Ok, now it makes more sense.
Ok, I took a bunch of your advice and re-worked things... What are your thoughts now? I think it makes the list a lot more "punchy" while still giving me the ability to capture objectives and screen with the smaller units? (Admittedly I am including the marines because I own them and can always used more las/missiles or whatever.
Yup, it looks a lot like it has a lot more teeth now. Go try it out. If you compare it with your earlier version, now if you go first, your alpha strike is far far nastier.
You have 3 raptor squads now dropping in with special weapons blazing, terminator squad dropping in also with special weapons blazing, helldrake flies up, flames something and charges into close combat, and one of your princes can warptime himself up the board and join in the fun. All while your long range shoots.
Now you should do enough casualties such that your terror morale checks actually can do something.
Just one more word of advice though. You have flamers on your terminators. This is great if you plan to warp time your terminators after you deep strike them. But if you weren't planning to do that, then because you deep strike in at 9.1 inches away from your enemy units, you won't be able to use your flamers on your termis cos those flamers are 8 inches range. This doesn't affect stuff like your combi meltas or your combi plasmas.
Its fine if you were planning to always warptime your terminators, but this means you have to make sure you fly your daemonprince with warptime to within 3 inches of your dropped terminator group because the range of warptime is only 3 inches.
Necrons 7500+
IG 4000+
Custodes 2500
Knights 1500
Chaos / Daemons / Death Guard : 7500+ 
If you compare it with your earlier version, now if you go first, your alpha strike is far far nastier.