WORST start collecting box? (40k)

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**vaklor4**

In your opinion what is the worst of the start collecting series? This can also include the Chaos Daemons from AoS because they work in 40k.

In my opinion, maybe not bang for buck but worst for playability is the Tau. Too many play styles in one box, makes it too schizophranic for a starting army.

**Dudeface**

Previously I would have said nids, the warriors struggled and the gargs had no synergy with them. Following 8th ed I'm inclined to say guard, they have nowhere near enough bodies in that box.

**Yarium**

The Eldar one no longer has any Troops in it. For me, that feels like it shouldn't be the case. A "Start Collecting" box really should come with enough to make a Patrol detachment, which the Eldar one, now in 8th, falls short in.

**Marmatag**

The boxes should be re-evaluated in 8th edition. The Eldar, Space Marines, Blood Angels, Orks boxes are all pretty weak. Although the Orks box does have some stuff you'd have to buy anyway.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The Space Marine one and the Chaos Space Marine one. Not really any discount to be had other than getting a free lord.

The Eldar one is just an insult, especially considering the absolute bounty that is the Dark Eldar box that came out at the same time.

**the_scotsman**

The ork box is in a similar boat to the Eldar one - no HQ now. Guard is probably the worst box, given how badly Leman Russes fare nowadays (seriously, they probably have less of a role than they did in 7th, which is just incredible given how much horn-tooting GW did about them). The Eldar I give a pass because all the units in it are individually solid (IIRC you can make the Prism into the far superior Shadow Weaver tank).

If there's a Khorne daemon one, it's probably bad, since it probably involves bloodletters.

So I'm going to say Guard, Khorne, Tau are worst.

**Galas**

The Eldar Box is just... awfull to look at. In 7th maybe it was pretty good, and even in 8th, but... anybody starting an army shouldn't start with... a tank and 4 bikes.

**Retrogamer0001**

The Tau box isn't bad at all - tons of very useful gun drones, infantry that isn't terrible, and Crisis Suits that are decent with mass fusion or flamers. The Ethereal is pretty useless, but overall, definitely not the worst box.

**Trollbert**

If you don't play wysiwyg, CSM.

If you don't start collecting, you don't need any more Helbrutes...
It was probably clever by GW though because newcomers won't buy Helbrutes from eBay but some other new models.

Even if you start collecting, you don't want more than one box.
That's a nice thing about the Necrons, Tau and DE boxes, more than one seems to be useful.

**Sumilidon**

Militarum Tempestus because it comes with a Taurox. That thing is ugly!

Best box sets are Blood Angels and Tzeentch.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The Tau box was awesome when it came out, and I still say is decent because it at least contains a playable army AND the iconic units of the army, something very few others can say.

DE and AdMech are the best because regardless whether you're a new player or someone looking to bulk out an existing force, it's always a good buy and comes with some of the more essential units the factions need.

The Tzeentch and Scions box I consider the best, because they give you a decent discount AND give you almost everything the faction can field anyways (Tzeentch Daemons only need a LoC to round out the force, while Tempestus just needs a valkyrie).

**SilverAlien**

CSM does struggle by having the utterly useless chosen loadout and a kinds meh helbrute as well. Still, it at least can work.

The eldar is bad but that isn't so much on the box as the army as a whole being fairly bad.

Guard is the one I'd say really struggles, it just isn't useful at all. That's impressive given guard is a solid army this edition.

**Kap'n Krump**

Marmatag wrote:
The boxes should be re-evaluated in 8th edition. The Eldar, Space Marines, Blood Angels, Orks boxes are all pretty weak. Although the Orks box does have some stuff you'd have to buy anyway.

Eh, ork one is decent. Boyz, nobz, painboy are all decent. Deff dread maybe less so, but it's improved and still a fantastic model.

**Sim-Life**

The Grey Knight box. Because it doesn't fething exist.

**cmspano**

In this edition I'd honestly say Tau have one of the best boxes considering both $ and composition value. 75$ for a crisis team is insane when they sell the team in a get started box for 85$.

IMO Crisis suits and Commanders are Tau's best source of power this edition. I haven't found anything in the Index that is as good as those two. I think they're going to form the firepower core of most lists. A big plus for the value of the Tau starter box is that Crisis suits are not only one of the army's strongest units, but also very versatile and can be kitted out for various roles. With a couple starter boxes you can make very effective units to fill any battlefield role. Most units in the other starter boxes can take a special weapon to lean toward a certain role, but aren't going to be as specialized toward that role as a Crisis suit team.

Fire Warriors are still a decent, affordable troops choice for filling out a Battalion.

Ethereals aren't bad, and this one is on a drone so it can keep up with the suits if you want to do that. I actually converted mine into a Fireblade with spare FW bits from the same box(I used a FW chest piece that might have actually been from a spare FW sprue I already had, I can't remember if there's a spare chest in the FW box).

2 Tau get started boxes and you could make 2 Crisis Commanders(quad fusion perhaps), a 4 man Crisis Team, 2-4 Fire Warrior teams based on size, 2 Ethereals or if you don't mind some conversion work, 2 Fireblades(probably a better option). You would possibly need to do some bitz hunting on ebay to have enough guns to outfit your crisis suits fully wysiwyg but that's always been a Tau thing.

Add in a box of pathfinders and a couple Devilfish and you've got a pretty solid army for under 300$.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Crisis suits are only *bad* because the Commander can do what they do in most cases more point efficiently.

Which opens up a weird case where you can take the three suits in the Start Collecting set and build them up as commanders and...well hilarity ensues.

**Retrogamer0001**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Crisis suits are only *bad* because the Commander can do what they do in most cases more point efficiently.

Which opens up a weird case where you can take the three suits in the Start Collecting set and build them up as commanders and...well hilarity ensues.

Though this is true, the actually Commander model is a good bit bigger than a regular Crisis suit, and is also more pose-able and just plain nicer. Still, nothing stopping anyone from using the Crisis.

**cmspano**

From a very competitive viewpoint, the Commander is a better unit than a Crisis Team, however I've found a regular crisis team to be quite good too. You just have to play them differently.

For single shot guns like a fusion blaster, where you're going after priority targets, commander all the way.

But 4 Crisis suits with 2 Cyclic Ions, an ATS, and 8 gun drones is a tough unit with pretty good fire power. support them with markers like everything else and have some fire warriors tossing extra shots with them and they hurt pretty bad.

I've found regular suits are a good balance between staying power and fire power compared to a commander. Just because they can take a big drone unit. A quad fusion commander deep striking is very dangerous, but it's just him and 2 drones. But when you deep strike him along with a 3-5 man Crisis team with 2 drones per model then you bring a lot of ablative wounds(drone squads can't deep strike when taken alone).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Crisis suits are only *bad* because the Commander can do what they do in most cases more point efficiently.

Which opens up a weird case where you can take the three suits in the Start Collecting set and build them up as commanders and...well hilarity ensues.

Though this is true, the actually Commander model is a good bit bigger than a regular Crisis suit, and is also more pose-able and just plain nicer. Still, nothing stopping anyone from using the Crisis.

I'm making a pair of commanders out of regular suits just cause of the cost. I give them 2 shoulder plates instead of 1, sept color head, and he'll have 4 guns instead of 2-3 so he stands out well.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Yes, the good ol XV8s are in a similar position as a bunch of 7th edition stuff; they would be considered "good" if another unit didn't completely outshine them.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

Some sort of competition between the Imperial Guard, the Eldar, and the Tyranids.

Probably Tyranids, because I've seen the stuff in the Eldar and Guard box actually get used.

The crappiness of the IG starter box is offset too by the fact that there's the Catachan and Cadian defense forces boxes, which are actually good.

**Xenomancers**

Tyranids is probably the best. It comes with a Hive Tyrant which is one of the best units in the index. The gargoyles aren't great but the warriors are good. In terms of cash value getting a hive tyrant and 3 warriors for 85 bucks...plus everything you need to turn those warriors into shreaks. It's probably the best value. Tau value is great also.

**Arson Fire**

I really would not consider a hive tyrant one of the best units in the index. I've been repeatedly unimpressed by them. They're not that great anymore. Expensive, and too easy to kill.
Broodlords and Malanthropes are far better HQs.

**Arachnofiend**

I dunno how it is for Age of Sigmar, but for 40k the Daemons of Tzeentch box is really bad. The only model you'd want to use is the Herald, plus taking the Exalted Flamer off the Burning Chariot model.

**roddo**

I like the tau box. Fire warriors are good with an ethereal, and crisis can be really good if used properly.

**ulgurstasta**

The CSM one is very underwhelming, even from the perspective of someone who doesn't play 40k.

**Rolsheen**

I think any Start Collecting that you can't make a Patrol detachment is kind of missing the point of it's existence.

**ChargerIIC**

Tyranids seems terrible. The gargoyles are a niche unit so I'm not certain anyone would feel like they were getting a savings out of the box.

The Astra Militarum is a close second. You can deploy the full number of infantry models *or* you can deploy the lascannon, but not both. It's annoying, but it's hard to complain about it coming with a full Leman Russ. That tank alone makes the box a great idea.

**argonak**

ChargerIIC wrote:
Tyranids seems terrible. The gargoyles are a niche unit so I'm not certain anyone would feel like they were getting a savings out of the box.

The Astra Militarum is a close second. You can deploy the full number of infantry models *or* you can deploy the lascannon, but not both. It's annoying, but it's hard to complain about it coming with a full Leman Russ. That tank alone makes the box a great idea.

Huh, I just assumed looking at the AM box it would include one HWT sprue and two normal IG squad sprues, that's not the case?

**Kaime**

It does, but you cant actually field 10 infantry + HWT - the team replaces 2 normal guys so you end up with either a team not used or 2 guys not used

**Skullhammer**

The gaurd one now has the advantage of the 2 leftover troopers being used as platoon commanders, bling them out with the extra bits and you now have orders etc so there not wasted anymore, hell you could use a vox pac and binoc's to make a master of ordanace out of one.