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gendoikari87 wrote:

 The_Savior wrote:
So I have eight Dakkastelans...

What should I do?

Rejoice? Two units of four? One unit of six and give me two? find someone who runs magnus go mars and laugh as they cry.

1.If you have powergammer with Magnus in your local meta find him.
2. Let him buff his winged friend.
3. Look on all of that happening with dead face.
4. Drop anchors with castellans, drop with of mars.
5. Delete Magnus from existence
6. Drink his tears.

thats what they are for, on other hand in more friendly game environment divide them in two unit of 4- they will be harder to lock in combat, and less op.

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
Quick Q - With the Lucius deep strike strategm, are you still confined to deep striking by the 3rd turn, or can you do so at any turn?

Yes. All reserves are destroyed at the end of round 3 regardless of where they came from.

Suzuteo wrote:

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
Quick Q - With the Lucius deep strike strategm, are you still confined to deep striking by the 3rd turn, or can you do so at any turn?

Yes. All reserves are destroyed at the end of round 3 regardless of where they came from.

man i remember the days when you had to roll for reserves and any deepstrikers only came in on turn 1 on a 6 or was it 5? it's been a while. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN! *waves cane about*

So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?

Yoda79 wrote:

Wrathbots
Snipetarii (Mars) and/or Bare Rangers (Stygies)
Double or Triple Onagers
Enginseers Tax
Goondozer (Stygies)

To be fair - this is quite a few units given the tiny roster. I suspect Fulgurites have a place - but you probably have to go all in, which means you can't put 50%~ of your points into Cawl, Dakkastellans and a screen, which is heresy of the worst kind.

My main question mark with the thread is this "Goonzoder (Stygies)". Its not the Dragoons - which I think are good with the strategem - its the Stygies bit. The -2 is great, but its only out of 12" and more importantly relies on them shooting your dragoons. Which they almost certainly won't prioritise because killing Dakkastelans is more important (and easier - unless you make everything Stygies but Mars is more common).
If you do it for the infiltration that makes more sense.
Then again to be fair none of the forgeworlds really help - but I have this weird idea that Ryza's rerolling 1s to wounds in assault might be worth it (16% damage buff on 3s to wound) although that is probably just be wishful thinking.

Also I am torn on the snipers. On paper I think they are too expensive for what they do. At the same time as Codexes are released we are probably going to see more and more buffing characters, elite single model units which are basically characters and so on. I don't know about player psychology - but killing them rather than having them immune until everything else is dead is potentially valuable.

Tyel wrote:

My main question mark with the thread is this "Goonzoder (Stygies)". Its not the Dragoons - which I think are good with the strategem - its the Stygies bit. The -2 is great, but its only out of 12" and more importantly relies on them shooting your dragoons. Which they almost certainly won't prioritise because killing Dakkastelans is more important (and easier - unless you make everything Stygies but Mars is more common).
If you do it for the infiltration that makes more sense.
Then again to be fair none of the forgeworlds really help - but I have this weird idea that Ryza's rerolling 1s to wounds in assault might be worth it (16% damage buff on 3s to wound) although that is probably just be wishful thinking.

Also I am torn on the snipers. On paper I think they are too expensive for what they do. At the same time as Codexes are released we are probably going to see more and more buffing characters, elite single model units which are basically characters and so on. I don't know about player psychology - but killing them rather than having them immune until everything else is dead is potentially valuable.

Stygies is clearly superior, not only due to the dogma, but especially due to the ability to infiltrate. Putting a Dragoon 9" from any unit forces your opponent to hold units in reserve or to deploy defensively, which means less units rushing your Kastelans. I mean, it is SUPER hard to contain Dragoons. Good luck screening them.

 The_Savior wrote:
So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?

I don't see why not. 8 dakkastellans will be all your anti-infantry, and then you need some amount of anti-tank and mobility. I have 4 robots but if/when I go up to 8 I would take this:

Cawl 250
4 Robots 440
4 Robots 440
Neutronager 140
Neutronager 140
-1410-

So, that's some fat firepower and some fat points sinks, the remaining piece of the puzzle is putting bodies on the field and being able to move them around, for which I nominate:

-590-
Tempestor Prime 40
Tempestor Prime 40
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma 64
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma 64
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66

Leaves you with a scant 14 points remaining, but I think this list could be good. The list I field currently is the same as above minus 5 robots, and plus a knight and 2 earthshaker platforms (and a tarantula).

Yoda79 wrote:
Hot Take

Look bud, I play the faction and have been brainstorming and formulating strategies for AdMech since 8th dropped. You can see me espousing all those strategies organically or at the recommendation of another proven player from this forum. I get you think I am rude or whatever, but that is what ignore is for. Don't gum up the discussion with posts attacking me, thanks.

 ph34r wrote:

 The_Savior wrote:
So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?

I don't see why not. 8 dakkastellans will be all your anti-infantry, and then you need some amount of anti-tank and mobility. I have 4 robots but if/when I go up to 8 I would take this:

Cawl 250
4 Robots 440
4 Robots 440
Neutronager 140
Neutronager 140
-1410-

So, that's some fat firepower and some fat points sinks, the remaining piece of the puzzle is putting bodies on the field and being able to move them around, for which I nominate:

-590-
Tempestor Prime 40
Tempestor Prime 40
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma 64
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma 64
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66

Leaves you with a scant 14 points remaining, but I think this list could be good. The list I field currently is the same as above minus 5 robots, and plus a knight and 2 earthshaker platforms (and a tarantula).

That's super solid, but might not be functioning after the new Guard codex.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That's super solid, but might not be functioning after the new Guard codex.

The only issue the lack of screen. And one of those plasma squads is not getting the re-roll order, but that is negligible.

 ph34r wrote:

 The_Savior wrote:
So I guess there isn't a viable way to have all 8 Dakkastelans on the field?

I don't see why not. 8 dakkastellans will be all your anti-infantry, and then you need some amount of anti-tank and mobility. I have 4 robots but if/when I go up to 8 I would take this:

Cawl 250
4 Robots 440
4 Robots 440
Neutronager 140
Neutronager 140
-1410-

So, that's some fat firepower and some fat points sinks, the remaining piece of the puzzle is putting bodies on the field and being able to move them around, for which I nominate:

-590-
Tempestor Prime 40
Tempestor Prime 40
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma 64
Tempestus Command, 4x plasma 64
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66
Tempestus Scions, 2x plasma 1x plasma pistol 66

Leaves you with a scant 14 points remaining, but I think this list could be good. The list I field currently is the same as above minus 5 robots, and plus a knight and 2 earthshaker platforms (and a tarantula).

super solid list. That much plasma deep striking on to the board is bound to daze and confuse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That's super solid, but might not be functioning after the new Guard codex.

The only issue the lack of screen. And one of those plasma squads is not getting the re-roll order, but that is negligible.

when you deploy high value targets to the rear you don't need the screens as much because you're literally forcing people to move away from the robots. From there protect against turn one charges blast what does come to you, stay mobile. if they do close in on the bots, you grab objectives win by victory points because they've now moved half way across the board and will have to move back under plasmagun fire. and you get to choose where the scions go, which gives you the advantage to choose optimal range

So, does anyone know if anything related to Fires of Cyraxus has come out yet?

I hope that gives admech more competitive options against Primarch spam.

Nope. No new Fires Of Cyraxus information since "We're waiting for the Space Marine, Mechanicus, and Tau codices".

gendoikari87 wrote:
when you deploy high value targets to the rear you don't need the screens as much because you're literally forcing people to move away from the robots. From there protect against turn one charges blast what does come to you, stay mobile. if they do close in on the bots, you grab objectives win by victory points because they've now moved half way across the board and will have to move back under plasmagun fire. and you get to choose where the scions go, which gives you the advantage to choose optimal range

25 Scions is not hard to kill when they are plopping down in front of your opponent's entire army. Yes, they are a great asset, but don't oversell it. We always need a screen. We never want our gunline to get assaulted. That is why the Scion list I posted prior brought Conscripts, since why not when we are already dabbling in the Imperium stuff.

gendoikari87 wrote:
when you deploy high value targets to the rear you don't need the screens as much because you're literally forcing people to move away from the robots. From there protect against turn one charges blast what does come to you, stay mobile. if they do close in on the bots, you grab objectives win by victory points because they've now moved half way across the board and will have to move back under plasmagun fire. and you get to choose where the scions go, which gives you the advantage to choose optimal range

Er... no, you definitely still do need screens. Also, let's be honest, most of your plasma squads will be dead by turn 3. They're great for alpha striking, but they're not exactly known for being durable, especially given Imperium Soup matchups routinely show dozens of GEQs being cleared every turn with all the mortar and lasgun fire.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

25 Scions is not hard to kill when they are plopping down in front of your opponent's entire army. Yes, they are a great asset, but don't oversell it. We always need a screen. We never want our gunline to get assaulted. That is why the Scion list I posted prior brought Conscripts, since why not when we are already dabbling in the Imperium stuff.

This.

LexOdin9 wrote:
So, does anyone know if anything related to Fires of Cyraxus has come out yet?

I hope that gives admech more competitive options against Primarch spam.

I just want the Vorax, i don't even care how good it is. models sweet

Er... no, you definitely still do need screens. Also, let's be honest, most of your plasma squads will be dead by turn 3. They're great for alpha striking, but they're not exactly known for being durable, especially given Imperium Soup matchups routinely show dozens of GEQs being cleared every turn with all the mortar and lasgun fire.

like i said, you need the AS much. and yeah scions are fragile. that's why i bring 3+ and T4 also 2 shots 24" doesn't hurt. But some conscripts never hurt anyone. at least until the nerf. then who knows what'll be best. still probably conscripts. maybe basic guard. but some deep strike always helps. and can reach the back field objectives/HVT

also seriously consider running agrapinaa, try it at least once. plot a reignment of the technomartyr behind them and you'll be hard pressed to find a more troll unit. "oh really your going to charge my robots, have fun with that" two games so far and they've eaten multiple squads in overwatch alone. just gotta make sure the transports are popped turn one.

Think the opening post is a little harsh on the dominus, but understandable if taking cawl walls or really competative lists. he still buffs our guys, though not to the godly levels of cawl... wish we had an archmagos stratagem.

Only played one game so far with the codex (lucius) and I must have had super good luck with the dice turn 1, as I managed to delete a brass scorpion and a predator in one volley with some fire to spare. (helps both blew up and took out more guys on his side... he had bad dice rolls.)

Gotta say I'm loving lucius so far. being able to protect my vanguard if i'm going second and being able to get them in effective range just makes them shine, and the extra +1 to hit rolls can be brutal when dropping plasma. the ignoring -1 to armor with shroud psalm up? amazing.

The ignore damage stratagem is great too. Cinematic, and truly game changing to have your knight have one final turn to go out in a blaze of glory.

the breachers surprised me when I played them too. again, one game and good dice rolls, but so far I got a box and hope they do well again. having just a little more anti-tank is always helpful.

Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I tried the plasma kataphrons in a fun game against tyranids:

Killed 2 carnifexes, old one eye, and a swarmlord on OVERWATCH. Did nothing in the real shooting phases. Overcharged every time and killed 5/6 myself, but it was great fun. The +1 to their hit rolls was completely useless with Cawl around though

You do know that the +1 to hit makes plasma never explode?

 Sledgio wrote:
Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.

Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.

So anyone know what the deal is with GW removing kastelans from the online store? My friendly third party retailer has also removed them from their store...

GW have been struggling to meet demand since 8th dropped. When something gets popular and people go and buy it, it quickly goes out of stock.

More will be made, but for now you probably need to shop around.

Suzuteo wrote:

 Sledgio wrote:
Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.

Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.

tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table. Even without agrapinaa a modest 4 dakkastelens nearly kills 3 suits in overwatch so unless they're throwing a six man strong unit at you they won't survive to tie anyone down

 Silentz wrote:
GW have been struggling to meet demand since 8th dropped. When something gets popular and people go and buy it, it quickly goes out of stock.

More will be made, but for now you probably need to shop around.

i know but they add temporarily out of stock to other items, these are just flat removed, not even there.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
You do know that the +1 to hit makes plasma never explode?

yes but with Cawl I didn't get any 1s with their shooting, therefore the CP were useless

They do it in different ways and it always seems to create uproar!

On the UK store... Ironstriders, Tech Priest Dominus, Kastelans and all flavours of Imperial Knight are temporarily out of stock.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Sledgio wrote:
Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.

Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.

tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table

No one will take subpar Kastelans with Fists in a normal list. Tailoring a a jerk move, too. So this isn't particularly good advice.

Plus, they are moving in, blasting them with Fusion, getting into combat and then bouncing out and shooting again. And don't get me started on Coldstars with their ridiculous movement.

We need to layer up just like Suzuteo said, to make sure they have as little room to get in and lock down our shooting assets as possible.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Sledgio wrote:
Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.

Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.

tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table

No one will take subpar Kastelans with Fists in a normal list. Tailoring a a jerk move, too. So this isn't particularly good advice.

Plus, they are moving in, blasting them with Fusion, getting into combat and then bouncing out and shooting again. And don't get me started on Coldstars with their ridiculous movement.

We need to layer up just like Suzuteo said, to make sure they have as little room to get in and lock down our shooting assets as possible.

only the cold star and riptide can do that and at great cost. And each time they charge they're giving you a free shooting phase. 6+ to hit but that will kill crisis suits dead. Xv104s risk being brought down a profile easily in the attempt.

Need to read up on the rules cause a ghostkeel might could do it. But I need to refresh myself on how the ghosts -1 to hit thing works


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit riptide and large units of crisis suits. But your still losing a lot doing that. And if you go agrapinaa like I do crisis suits evaporate.

Though if the riptide pulls out their 3++ that turns into another story


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the Cold star needs to have them locked down or it gets eaten too. That or drones. Ablative wounds basically.

So to recap the only thing surviving kastelans overwatch is the riptide and large crisis suit units or battle suits with multiple multiple ablative wound maybe ghostkeel but I'd have to check

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Sledgio wrote:
Hey any advice for facing a competitive Tau army? I will likely be facing multiple commanders, an Y'Vahra battlesuit (FW) and 50-80 drones. I'm a bit stuck because of the number of models he has.

Yes. In addition to your usual screen, castle around your Kastelans. That is, form a big blob of bodies around them with your Crawlers and HQs. Do not leave any space for a Battlesuit to stand or they will move past your screens and trap your Kastelans in CC. Be sure also to deploy aggressively, much further up and closer to objectives than usual, and force immediate trades. Tau is another shooting army, but they don't have our durability; they have mobility instead. When trading, be sure that you KILL the Commanders. Otherwise, they will exploit the character rules to hide their wounded. Use Dragoons to compete for objectives.

tau in cc? Lol just go 5 dakkastelens and a fistelen. I mean yes castle but because of the melta not tau cc. Unless what's his face is on the table

No one will take subpar Kastelans with Fists in a normal list. Tailoring a a jerk move, too. So this isn't particularly good advice.

Plus, they are moving in, blasting them with Fusion, getting into combat and then bouncing out and shooting again. And don't get me started on Coldstars with their ridiculous movement.

We need to layer up just like Suzuteo said, to make sure they have as little room to get in and lock down our shooting assets as possible.

only the cold star and riptide can do that and at great cost. And each time they charge they're giving you a free shooting phase. 6+ to hit but that will kill crisis suits dead. Xv104s risk being brought down a profile easily in the attempt.

Need to read up on the rules cause a ghostkeel might could do it. But I need to refresh myself on how the ghosts -1 to hit thing works


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit riptide and large units of crisis suits. But your still losing a lot doing that. And if you go agrapinaa like I do crisis suits evaporate.

Though if the riptide pulls out their 3++ that turns into another story


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the Cold star needs to have them locked down or it gets eaten too. That or drones. Ablative wounds basically

There are a lot of variables - such as do we have LoS on that Coldstar before he bounces into our 'Bots or did they jump that Coldstar with Tac Drones in first, who can actually eat our Overwatch, or did we eat a round of Tau shooting meaning we have only four 'Bots left, making our Overwatch less ideal, etc.

That doesn't mean your original advice was good - it wasn't. Which was the point. All of us who actually play know what Tau can do - that is why Suzuteo posted his sound strategy that I concur with. We need to deny them a place to even put their models, because we don't want them bouncing around our lines locking up our shooting units. Period. We want to play the game our way, not theirs.

Also, no one is going Agripinaa. Stop trying to make fetch happen. Mars is so significantly better, most folks aren't going to bother with such a sub-par option outside of casual games.

Have you played agrapinaa yet? No so the you don't know anything and can't speak about it.