Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:

Repel the enemy seems pretty cool to think I can blast a lascannon shot into close combat, but given how guardsmen usually die to a stiff breeze I don't see his really being realistic. Unless I'm reading it wrong and it means you can fire into another close combat, which is amazing.

It's not that, it just lets your squad shoot the unit they're in CC with. Note the 'must target enemy units within 1"' restriction.

It seems like a very niche order. Why wouldn't I just Fall Back, then order "Get Back in the Fight!"? The unit still gest to shoot and the rest of my army can shoot their target as well. Sure, they don't get to charge/fight, but what am I wanting to charge/fight with guardsmen that willingly engaged me already?

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/27/regiment-focus-vostroyan-sep27gw-homepage-post-2/

Vostroyans are up!

So getting an extra 6" on heavy and rapid fire weapons is pretty awesome. Lasguns can now rapid fire up to 15", and it gives a little extra range to lascannons and the like (not that you can't almost hit anything with 48" range)

Repel the enemy seems pretty cool to think I can blast a lascannon shot into close combat, but given how guardsmen usually die to a stiff breeze I don't see his really being realistic. Unless I'm reading it wrong and it means you can fire into another close combat, which is amazing.

The little CP trick with the scout move seems kind of meh.

Tomorrow we will see Valhallans and they hint at showing us the conscript nerf.

You know what else they hint at? "a return of a classic and much loved rule..." I will assume that will be "Send in the Next Wave!" which was kinda inevitable with how the other armies got them. I will assume that its going to pretty strict or that conscripts are going to be nerfed enough to make it necessary.

Yeah thats what I figured... Which will almost never get used because anytime a squad of guardsmen is charged by any competent melee unit they'll be gone at the end of that turn.

It could be SITNW or it could be Combined Squads.

I totally see the Valhallan article being the one that introduces the ability for Infantry Squads to become huge phalanxes on the table-top, stampeding over everything with sheer human-wave-ness.

SITNW was originally an ability on a Valhallan commander though, so that also makes sense for them.

Razerous wrote:
Leman Russ Battle Tank, with a hull heavy flamer (to be fair I'd still stick with a H.Bolter).

With Grinding Advance.

In a catachan army.

1d6 shots with a free re-roll on how many shots!

Twice.

Also now more accurate and has more shots than that lethal RFBC.

Grinding Advance applies to the turret weapon only.

It's gotta be send in the next wave or perhaps platoons.

If it's send in the next wave it makes sense that Chenkov and the Valhallans would be the time to bring it back. If it's platoons it still makes sense because that would inevitably be a massive nerf to conscripts since a classic platoon forced you to bring a command squad and 2 infantry squads before you got access to the conscripts.

Either one I'd be happy with, but if I had to pick I'd take platoons over send in the next wave. Platoons helps everyone and I think any infantry player who is using infantry squads can agree we really need Combined Squads back if for nothing else my sanity so I don't need to move 9-12 squads individually and shoot individually every turn.

At least send in the next wave would mean you could take less conscripts, at least initially. Just run them up the field and it's not a big deal if they die because you can just spend a couple CP's to bring them back to deal with deepstriking or assault elements that broke through.


Also gotta say I like the vostroyans. Shame they didn't get an armor ability but honestly the ranged thing makes sense and is much more balanced than even tougher to kill guardsmen. That 6" comes up more than one would think and most of our workhorse weapons s are in the 24-36" range band. Having an ability that adds to that range is handy, especially because people will forget that sometimes and accidentally leave things where they thought they were safe only to get hit.

Or maybe it's carapace veterans? Or Sharpshooters?

It seems like a very niche order. Why wouldn't I just Fall Back, then order "Get Back in the Fight!"? The unit still gets to shoot and the rest of my army can shoot their target as well. Sure, they don't get to charge/fight, but what am I wanting to charge/fight with guardsmen that willingly engaged me already?

If you fall back your heavy weapons are at -1 to hit though no?
With this order they can fire point blank with no minus modifiers.

 Ratius wrote:

It seems like a very niche order. Why wouldn't I just Fall Back, then order "Get Back in the Fight!"? The unit still gets to shoot and the rest of my army can shoot their target as well. Sure, they don't get to charge/fight, but what am I wanting to charge/fight with guardsmen that willingly engaged me already?

If you fall back your heavy weapons are at -1 to hit though no?
With this order they can fire point blank with no minus modifiers.

Maybe get back in the fight is being changed? Every single army that can fall back and shoot on non fly units suffers a penalty right now aside from us. It's possible that we're going to receive a -1 penalty as well or perhaps even have the order removed entirely. It's definitely one of the more hated orders amongst non IG players, I know my store really dislikes it.

If that was the case, the vostroyan order makes a lot of sense

Demolishers and Multi-Melta sponsons just got a lot more attractive

Also, Vostroyan Mortar teams are going to be really obnoxious!

KestrelM1 wrote:

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:

Repel the enemy seems pretty cool to think I can blast a lascannon shot into close combat, but given how guardsmen usually die to a stiff breeze I don't see his really being realistic. Unless I'm reading it wrong and it means you can fire into another close combat, which is amazing.

It's not that, it just lets your squad shoot the unit they're in CC with. Note the 'must target enemy units within 1"' restriction.

It seems like a very niche order. Why wouldn't I just Fall Back, then order "Get Back in the Fight!"? The unit still gest to shoot and the rest of my army can shoot their target as well. Sure, they don't get to charge/fight, but what am I wanting to charge/fight with guardsmen that willingly engaged me already?

Because if you are surrounded and are unable to move then you have the option of shooting your opponent in the face. (Cannot move thru enemy models even if you fall back remember.)

sfshilo wrote:

KestrelM1 wrote:
It seems like a very niche order. Why wouldn't I just Fall Back, then order "Get Back in the Fight!"? The unit still gest to shoot and the rest of my army can shoot their target as well. Sure, they don't get to charge/fight, but what am I wanting to charge/fight with guardsmen that willingly engaged me already?

Because if you are surrounded and are unable to move then you have the option of shooting your opponent in the face. (Cannot move thru enemy models even if you fall back remember.)

Ratius wrote:If you fall back your heavy weapons are at -1 to hit though no?
With this order they can fire point blank with no minus modifiers.

All these reasons promote use of Repel the Enemy, but I'll also note if you have a Senior Officer, I don't see anything preventing the unit from using Repel the Enemy and Fix Bayonets!

 KommissarKiln wrote:

sfshilo wrote:

KestrelM1 wrote:
It seems like a very niche order. Why wouldn't I just Fall Back, then order "Get Back in the Fight!"? The unit still gest to shoot and the rest of my army can shoot their target as well. Sure, they don't get to charge/fight, but what am I wanting to charge/fight with guardsmen that willingly engaged me already?

Because if you are surrounded and are unable to move then you have the option of shooting your opponent in the face. (Cannot move thru enemy models even if you fall back remember.)

Ratius wrote:If you fall back your heavy weapons are at -1 to hit though no?
With this order they can fire point blank with no minus modifiers.

All these reasons promote use of Repel the Enemy, but I'll also note if you have a Senior Officer, I don't see anything preventing the unit from using Repel the Enemy and Fix Bayonets!

You can only issue an order once to a given unit.

“VOICE OF COMMAND
This unit may issue one order per turn to the soldiers under their command at the start of their Shooting phase. Orders may only be issued to INFANTRYunits within 6" of this unit that have the same <REGIMENT>keyword as this unit. To issue an order, pick a target unit and choose which order you wish to issue from the table below. A unit may only be affected by one order per turn.”

Oh. I always seem to gloss over those pages in the indices that detail faction-wide rules and clearly missed that caveat. Am sad now.

I have a big vostroyan army and play pretty casually, and I love these traits for one reason: They give me an excuse to have my pretty models on the table and not stuffed in a transport, and I don't have to run them as conscripts without any of the interesting sculpts.

Plus, one of my leman russes is sculpted with multi-meltas and punisher cannon, and 30" range on all that is excellent.

I don't mind the order. Situational, but decent.

Now, the only thing left to do is see whether any of my spare models can be converted to hold plasma guns. I'm going to need more than the three I have!

Daedalus81 wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Leman Russ Battle Tank, with a hull heavy flamer (to be fair I'd still stick with a H.Bolter).

With Grinding Advance.

In a catachan army.

1d6 shots with a free re-roll on how many shots!

Twice.

Also now more accurate and has more shots than that lethal RFBC.

Grinding Advance applies to the turret weapon only.

Yeah, a LRBT Battle cannon has 1D6 shots. Because you can re-roll one of the dice each time you fire and because you fire twice, it's basically 2D6 shots re-rolling both dice as required.

That equals some really good averages (8-9 shots per tank). That kind of damage output feels really strong, am I wrong?

You aren't wrong, but look up mort and his 16 attacks and don't feel so bad.

Reckon plasma guns and scions are going to receive a points need? They've not said anything about them yet.

Also depending on what they do with conscripts, they might get STRONGER with access to new regimental tactics, orders and strategems. They kind of have to play this carefully if they want to get the intended results they've essentially already received your choice of overwatch on 5+, S4 or 30" lasguns (whichever you think is strongest) - and they've received it for free...

The extra range on the vostroyians is nice. Really nice. But I'm a little disappointed by the lack of a carapace type thing. No biggie though.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Reckon plasma guns and scions are going to receive a points need? They've not said anything about them yet.

Also depending on what they do with conscripts, they might get STRONGER with access to new regimental tactics, orders and strategems. They kind of have to play this carefully if they want to get the intended results they've essentially already received your choice of overwatch on 5+, S4 or 30" lasguns (whichever you think is strongest) - and they've received it for free...

this is my prediciton, 1 point increase across the board for all infantry to make up for these buffs. They will return to the old price levels of previous editions.

Stop the hyperbole: do some math

A Leman Russ Battle Cannon currently averages 1 marine kill (7/2*1/2*5/6*2/3). Hull Heavy Bolter adds .5 wounds

Against a transport (T7, 3+) a Leman Russ Battle Cannon averages 1.5 wounds (7/2*1/2*2/3*2/3*2/1). Hull Heavy Bolter adds .25 wounds

Against another main tank (T8, 3+), they again average one wound (7/2*1/2*1/2*2/3*2/1). Hull Heavy Bolter adds .25 wounds

So even doubling the battle cannon output puts a Leman Russ with a Battle Cannon and Hull Heavy Bolter (162 points) killing 2.5 marines, 3.25 wounds on a transport, or 2.25 wounds on another Russ.

Somehow this doesn't scream overpowered to me. The Russ was seriously underpowered before. Even if the Russ drops the rumored 10 points it will still not be as good as an Onager. Even the Punisher only becomes better than Taurox Prime for its points at killing infantry.

I am not saying the changes aren't good. They are. I am only saying this simply puts the Russ as a competitive choice to other tank options.

On a final note, even with the Catachan reroll (which is not an extra roll drop the lowest, so it is no guarantee of more shots), if we assume that it bumps our avg to 4.5 shots instead of 3.5, it nets 1 additional wound to tanks, and about a half an additional marine.

How does using different regiments work?

Catachan heavy weapons, cadian conscripts, Vostroyan infantry squads?

 rhinoceraids wrote:
How does using different regiments work?

Catachan heavy weapons, cadian conscripts, Vostroyan infantry squads?

The whole detachment must be from one regiment in order to gain the bonuses.

Keep in mind, this means that if MT get any subfaction bonuses, they will need to be fielded in an only-MT detachment to qualify.

This also means that you can't have any Auxilia, Prefecta, Aeronautica, Admech, or Ministorum units in your detachment if you want a regiment bonus. So it's likely that people may have one detachment of their chosen regiment, and another with all the commissars, ogryn, psykers, techpriests, and scions they want to field.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
How does using different regiments work?

Catachan heavy weapons, cadian conscripts, Vostroyan infantry squads?

Like Chapter/Legion tactics, etc. You have to pick one and use it for a given detachment if you want the benefit - so if you want the Catachan regimental rules every selection in a detachment has to be Catachan. Doesn't stop you from using different regiments from different detachments, though; such as a Vostroyan Battalion detachment paired with a Catachan Spearhead detachment and a Cadian Vanguard detachment.

I have a dream that that we get Cain and his 597th Calm, professional soldiers who like tea and kicking ass.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Valhallan_597th

Sadly its a pipe dream.

the_scotsman wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
How does using different regiments work?

Catachan heavy weapons, cadian conscripts, Vostroyan infantry squads?

The whole detachment must be from one regiment in order to gain the bonuses.

Keep in mind, this means that if MT get any subfaction bonuses, they will need to be fielded in an only-MT detachment to qualify.

This also means that you can't have any Auxilia, Prefecta, Aeronautica, Admech, or Ministorum units in your detachment if you want a regiment bonus. So it's likely that people may have one detachment of their chosen regiment, and another with all the commissars, ogryn, psykers, techpriests, and scions they want to field.

I have a thought, I bet the Scions regiment rules will be their deep strike ability, much like elysians, that way you can't sprinkle them in to a detachment without having to make a bit of an investment.

the_scotsman wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
How does using different regiments work?

Catachan heavy weapons, cadian conscripts, Vostroyan infantry squads?

The whole detachment must be from one regiment in order to gain the bonuses.

Keep in mind, this means that if MT get any subfaction bonuses, they will need to be fielded in an only-MT detachment to qualify.

This also means that you can't have any Auxilia, Prefecta, Aeronautica, Admech, or Ministorum units in your detachment if you want a regiment bonus. So it's likely that people may have one detachment of their chosen regiment, and another with all the commissars, ogryn, psykers, techpriests, and scions they want to field.

Tempestus have regiment rules so they'll be exclusive, but my hope is that Auxilia, Commissars etc. will be able to be included in a <Regiment> detachment without breaking the doctrine (but not benefiting from it themselves).

 Corrode wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
How does using different regiments work?

Catachan heavy weapons, cadian conscripts, Vostroyan infantry squads?

The whole detachment must be from one regiment in order to gain the bonuses.

Keep in mind, this means that if MT get any subfaction bonuses, they will need to be fielded in an only-MT detachment to qualify.

This also means that you can't have any Auxilia, Prefecta, Aeronautica, Admech, or Ministorum units in your detachment if you want a regiment bonus. So it's likely that people may have one detachment of their chosen regiment, and another with all the commissars, ogryn, psykers, techpriests, and scions they want to field.

Tempestus have regiment rules so they'll be exclusive, but my hope is that Auxilia, Commissars etc. will be able to be included in a <Regiment> detachment without breaking the doctrine (but not benefiting from it themselves).

That seems like the most sensible way to do things, whether it proves to be so ofc is another matter!

A little off topic but my God what are people thinking?

https://www.ebay.com/i/263231730060

This is the 6th or so listing I've seen of single manticores going for as high as $100+